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[p95h]

After the umpteenth playthrough, I've finally decided I had enough of the "Tranquil Solution".

In DAO, Tranquil had their connection to the fade cut, by the severing of emotions upon which demons are attracted and feast.

In DA2, somehow this makes Tranquil susceptible to Templar control. WTF?!?!? The tranquil in DAO still were able to reason logically (Owain comes to mind), but in DA2, Karl betrays Anders to the Templars (which I can see only if the templars reasoned with Karl logically in that Anders is a psychopathic Abomination of Vengeance.)

Nonetheless, the tranquil seem to be retconned to be susceptible to mind control by Templars in the "New Order", when Karl says he'd rather die than be tranquil (After experiencing being tranquil.) The Tranquil in DAO, on the other hand, liken the experience to being plunged into an ice cold bath. They have much more clarity of thought, except they are emotionless. (Guess this makes them much more like Vulcans of Star Trek).

Tranquil are not mind control susceptible. If anything, they are less so because they have the clarity of thought that is unclouded by emotional stresses.

This is one aspect of DA2 with which I am deeply perturbed.

[David Gaider]

p95h wrote...
After the umpteenth playthrough, I've finally decided I had enough of the "Tranquil Solution".

In DAO, Tranquil had their connection to the fade cut, by the severing of emotions upon which demons are attracted and feast.

In DA2, somehow this makes Tranquil susceptible to Templar control. WTF?!?!? The tranquil in DAO still were able to reason logically (Owain comes to mind), but in DA2, Karl betrays Anders to the Templars (which I can see only if the templars reasoned with Karl logically in that Anders is a psychopathic Abomination of Vengeance.)

Nonetheless, the tranquil seem to be retconned to be susceptible to mind control by Templars in the "New Order", when Karl says he'd rather die than be tranquil (After experiencing being tranquil.) The Tranquil in DAO, on the other hand, liken the experience to being plunged into an ice cold bath. They have much more clarity of thought, except they are emotionless. (Guess this makes them much more like Vulcans of Star Trek).

Tranquil are not mind control susceptible. If anything, they are less so because they have the clarity of thought that is unclouded by emotional stresses.

This is one aspect of DA2 with which I am deeply perturbed.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

The templars consider them pliable, or agreeable. Someone laughing that "they'll do anything we tell them" is expressing an opinion. There is no mind control.

[David Gaider]

Torax wrote...
Only a light question. In Origins it is mentioned to non mages how the Tranquil get their foreheads branded with magic in the process to make them Tranquil. But we never saw markings or scars on the forehead of Tranquil in Fereldon. Was the branding on the foreheads of the Kirkwall Tranquil something that is unique to Kirkwall or was it just not applied in Origins due to budget constraints. The Branding had a hint of blood like scars to me in talking to Meredith's assistant. I could be wrong.

That should fall under the category of "things that were intended to be in Origins but which we never received the resources for." If you prefer, perhaps the Fereldan Circle brands their mages somewhere other than on their forehead (no, not there, dirty minds).

Merced652 wrote...
soooooooo Gaider, why did karl lose his memory? When you're tranquil are you schizophrenic or something?

There is no memory loss as a Tranquil. If you choose to interpret it as such, that's up to you.

Modifié par David Gaider, 13 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[David Gaider]

p95h wrote...
I'll summarize:

DAO Tranquils are cut off from the fade (They cannot dream, and have no emotions). One tranquil in DAO likens the effect to being "Plunged into an ice cold bath". To me this means everything has improved clarity as in being shocked into alertness. Improved clarity, logical mindedness and the ability to work with Lyrium without going mad are the positive traits from DAO tranquil state. The negative is that you cannot dream, and lack emotions, and talk without inflection in a steady cadence.

DA2 Tranquils are cut off from the fade only unless they apparently are in proximity to an abomination (like Anders with Karl), Tranquility seems to induce memory altering affects and makes Tranquils susceptible to suggestion from authority figures. This seems to me a lack of clarity, a muddleheaded state of amnesia, yet with an improvement to organizational skills (from Meredith's aide - even within DA2 there are contradictions!). The voice acting is also inflective and with variable cadence.

I prefer the DAO tranquils to the DA2 tranquils. They at least make more sense in a coherent manner for the millieu.

You're applying your own interpretation to the events and calling it a retcon? I'd consider that an interesting definition of retcon, to say the least.

Tranquil neither have their memory altered nor are they more susceptible to suggestion than they were previously. They're more agreeable, but that's because Tranquil don't tend to argue-- why would one oppose an authority figure unless there were a logical reason to do so? If someone agrees to do as you ask/demand, does that mean you're controlling their mind? Perhaps if you're Ser Alrik, but I'd argue that's hardly an unbiased source of information.

As far Karl being made Tranquil after being a mage, THAT I can agree would be cause for concern. After all, that is "against the rules" 

That's incorrect. The Rite of Tranquility is not only performed before the Harrowing. The use of it as a punishment or potentially as a control over unruly mages, however, does venture into territory that borders on abuse... but that was the entire point of the adventure.

Modifié par David Gaider, 13 avril 2011 - 02:13 .

[David Gaider]

Wulfram wrote...
Is the brand a necessary part of the process, or just something they do so you can recognise them?

It's part of the rite, the lyrium being what severs the link to the Fade.

[David Gaider]

RinjiRenee wrote...
@Mr. Gaider -- I remember Anders saying that it was against the rules or something back in Awakening even, but I guess mages can elect to become Tranquil at anytime? Or perhaps if there has been evidence of contact with demons, that the Rite of Tranquility can be performed as a precautionary measure even on Mages who have completed the Harrowing? What kind of permission from higher-ups does a Templar need to even perform it?

It's against the rules to perform the Rite of Tranquility without both significant provocation (provocation in this case meaning the mage in question either cannot control their magic or has shown no signs of a willingness to do so) AND the agreement of the First Enchanter (who is present as a sort of ombudsman on behalf of the mages). The system will fall out of balance anywhere where the First Enchanter is either weak or ignored.

Mages don't generally elect to become Tranquil after their Harrowing, but it's not impossible-- and with the agreement of the First Enchanter, as mentioned, could certainly happen.