25 réponses à ce sujet

[Miri1984]

I actually am a bit surprised no one has asked this directly yet. I know you guys can't give spoilers regarding what's happening after DA2, but I'd love to know, was the story for DA2 already in your heads when DA:O came out? All those dialogues in Awakenings between Anders and Justice and Nathaniel (I'm thinking of so many examples here, but to pick one at random the "I'm always up for a spot of iconoclasm" one which is just TOO RICH from Anders in Awakenings) were they written with the knowledge of what was coming in DA2? Were you always going to bring him back? Or was it a decision that was reached after?

I suppose I'm interested in the whole process of writing for games, to be honest. Enquiring minds want to know! Truly! 

Modifié par Miri1984, 13 avril 2011 - 07:36 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Rough outlines were probably made by the time DA:O shipped. Things change during development though. It's like General Moltke (the older) said: "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy". Once actual production begins, things change.

[Miri1984]

Aye I figured there might have been a "rebel mage starts mage/templar war" thing in the works before DA:O shipped, but I'm more wondering whether the lines in Awakenings were actually written because they had already planned to bring Justice/Anders back for DA:2.

[silentstephi]

Most likely the whole mage/templar conflict was the back bone. Anders being key in DA2 was probably worked in since he seemed to be such a hit in Awakenings.

Still... arg.
I love all three of the male LIs. In their own special way. I think Anders is probably the only one I want to throttle though. IN a loving way. Yea. That's it. -.-

[Hellosanta]

silentstephi wrote...

Most likely the whole mage/templar conflict was the back bone. Anders being key in DA2 was probably worked in since he seemed to be such a hit in Awakenings.

Still... arg.
I love all three of the male LIs. In their own special way. I think Anders is probably the only one I want to throttle though. IN a loving way. Yea. That's it. -.-

Beside all the fan girls who wanted to romance Anders in Awakenings, Anders have showed a great deal of hatred for chantry/templar in Awakenings already. So I assume that writing team have planned out to bring him back in DA2. 

[hoorayforicecream]

My guess as to what happened was that they needed somebody to do something horrible to ignite a mage/templar war, and had a couple of possible characters to do it. Anders just happened to be the best candidate.

[MG800]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

My guess as to what happened was that they needed somebody to do something horrible to ignite a mage/templar war, and had a couple of possible characters to do it. Anders just happened to be the best candidate.

Well, what other candidates do we have? Valenna wouldn't care, Morrigan either (thought blowing up a chantry for lulz seems in-character for her), Wynne should be pretty much dead, and she was always peaceful and pro-Circle
Finn is too much of coward, and we only get to know him in Witch Hunt which is for obvious reasons not as popular as Awakening, Jowan wouldn't make a sense (thought he's most possible if we forget about Anders and take all mages from DAO - thought that bag full of misery and whine wouldn't change that much, he would be easier to hate, and story wouldn't have such an impact on player). 
It leaves us Anders, a templar hater who conviently crossed paths with spiritual being, personification of idea (one simple idea ). 

Modifié par MG800, 13 avril 2011 - 09:01 .

[hoorayforicecream]

You could always make something up. Wynne's spirit corrupted her. Morrigan got possessed. Some new character did it. A templar did it. A mage did it. A Qunari did it. It was an accident. It was on purpose. What Anders did at the end of DA2 was nowhere in character for Anders in DAA, but that's kind of the point.

Nothing precludes them from changing existing characters, or just making new ones up. They blew up the chantry. They blew up the viscount. They blew up the docks. They released a plague. They poisoned a poodle. They punched a parrot. They burned a Quran. Whatever floats their boat, and makes reasonable sense for their narrative.

[MG800]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

You could always make something up. Wynne's spirit corrupted her. Morrigan got possessed. Some new character did it. A templar did it. A mage did it. A Qunari did it. It was an accident. It was on purpose. What Anders did at the end of DA2 was nowhere in character for Anders in DAA, but that's kind of the point.

Nothing precludes them from changing existing characters, or just making new ones up. They blew up the chantry. They blew up the viscount. They blew up the docks. They released a plague. They poisoned a poodle. They punched a parrot. They burned a Quran. Whatever floats their boat, and makes reasonable sense for their narrative.

True. What I tried to say is: this is the most convient option.

Modifié par MG800, 13 avril 2011 - 09:24 .

[silver-crescent]

Miri1984 wrote...

Aye I figured there might have been a "rebel mage starts mage/templar war" thing in the works before DA:O shipped, but I'm more wondering whether the lines in Awakenings were actually written because they had already planned to bring Justice/Anders back for DA:2.

That's definitely the impression I get. It'd be great if we could get some confirmation either way though.

[Knightly_BW]

I don't think they planned it while they working on Awakenings. If they did, they would pull a DA 2 on Anders and he would ended up as a Warden no matter what player says.
Warden-Commander: I have nothing to do with this apostate. Take him away!
Templar Lady: Naaw! You two look so cute together, make him a warden. 

[LastFadingSmile]

I think you'r right, Miri; they had to have planned it, or at the very least have considered it a real possibility, when they were writing Awakening. The conversations that crop up are just WAY too pointed and foreboding for it all to be a happy accident. If you're not convinced, read the dialogue on Justice's wiki page, esp. between Justice/Nate and Anders, as miri mentioned.

This one is particularly chilling to me:

Nathaniel: What if you found a living body to possess?
Justice: Even if I knew how, I would not possess the living. Such is an act for demons.
Nathaniel: What if the person were willing?
Justice: Why would a mortal ever allow such a thing?
Nathaniel: For life. For love. Perhaps together, you can do what they cannot do alone. If you gave instead of taking, I would consider you no demon.
Justice: It is...something to consider. Thank you, Nathaniel.


I just finished playing Awakenings through again, and when I heard these conversations pop up it was utterly heartbreaking knowing how it was all going to end. Maybe they weren't 100% sure if they'd follow through with it, I don't know, but in retrospect it seems pretty clear to me that they were laying the groundwork for what was coming. But I guess YMMV.



Edit: format fail, damn it. Preview button, please

Modifié par Kolotosa, 13 avril 2011 - 01:11 .

[Maria Caliban]

That you could have Anders die or not be recruited, thus never meeting Justice, suggests they hadn't envisioned him for a major role in the sequel. There are also the various timeline inconsistencies. Awakening clearly says that it's been 'several years' since the end of the Fifth Blight.

And BioWare admits that after DA:O, they hadn't decided on what story they wanted to have for DA II. I believe the other plot they considered was 'stapling two archdemons together.'

[dragonflight288]

Hmmm. In Awakening, if you don't import a Warden who put Anora on he throne and maybe had Alistair executed, but use an Orlesian Commander, Alistair is in canon the king of Feraldan with Cousland being the default Origin. Maybe they're setting up an overall set plot which may or may not change based on the imported characters.

But yes, if our Warden did give Anders to the templars for execution, it doesn't make any sense how he may be a Grey Warden...unless he is recruited by other Wardens in transit but that is unlikely considering all the Wardens in Feralden are at the Vigil.

[Herr Uhl]

I don't think they planned for Anders, Isabela or Merril to return. They probably have a vague sense of where they're going with the world, but not an exact storyline.

[Masako52]

I definitely think it was planned out from Awakening. Anders in Awakening is happy-go-lucky and easy to attach to. Basically, you see him falling to the point where he would blow up the Chantry for his cause. It's more powerful to see the progression of a character you know, than just toss in some new character who you have no reason to trust in the first place.

[Evindell]

I just bought Awakenings so that I could make all the decisions about the Architect myself-I was miffed that I had to use a The Martyr origin to meet Nathaniel-and I find it particularly humorous looking at Anders now, through the lens of DA2.

The conversation with Wynne, outside the Chantry though, made me laugh. When pressed about what's happening with the Circle she will talk about how some mages want to pull away from Chantry control completely, and Anders speaks up. He says something about how he hates Templars and such as much as the next mage but to pull away completely is too extreme.............



I was laughing for quite awhile.

[Apathy1989]

This is bioware, they probably had a million plot ideas after DAO.

However this specific one I doubt they planned, as if they had there would not be the option to kill/turn in anders. And they would have not had option to kill leliana, although they made her appear with a lame excuse that the maker reattached her head.

[primero holodon]

considering Anders and leliana can both be killed off in DAO and Awakenings, I'd guess that it couldn't have been too planed

[Tasmen]

Oh, I cannot believe someone hasn't asked this either.

I'm of the mind that they had some things planned, but probably not all the 'fine' details. I want to believe all that dialogue in Awakening WAS meant to foreshadow what was to come much as the 'I want to see a sword up close' line at the start of the Cousie origin.

[Emperor Iaius I]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

My guess as to what happened was that they needed somebody to do something horrible to ignite a mage/templar war, and had a couple of possible characters to do it. Anders just happened to be the best candidate.

There were already grumblings about the libertarians causing a major break with the Chantry back in Origins. There's no reason they had to pre-plan a bombing in order to cause the war: it looked like it was already brewing.

[Kawamura]

Iconoclasm!

[sassperella]

Looking at the dialog in Awakening, I'd say it was sooooo planned then. I believe I read somewhere that the story for DA2 was actually about complete when DA:O shipped so I imagine that Anders was introduced to DA:A for the sole purpose of continuing him on to DA2.

But that's just my thoughts

[brightblueink]

Maria Caliban wrote...

There are also the various timeline inconsistencies. Awakening clearly says that it's been 'several years' since the end of the Fifth Blight. 

When does it say that? I just recently played Awakenings and I remember the characters discussing about how it'd be six months since the end of the blight, which gives Anders enough time to be in Awakenings and still pop up in Kirkwall a year after the Blight (particularly since he mentions that he'd recently arrived).

Anyway, I definitely think they had ideas about Anders' role in DA2, at the very least. If it was just one or two lines, I'd say it was a coencidence...but there's a LOT of dialogue in Awakenings that seems to hint at Anders being possessed by Justice and going on a crusade against the Chantry's circles.

It's possible they hadn't hammered out the details yet, though, hence the weird problems with you being able to send Anders off with the Templars. Maybe they planned on him escaping, only to realize later that the Grey Wardens background made it easier to explain why Hawke would recruit him.