27 réponses à ce sujet

[Morthanos]

I'm interested in how other people feel about this one aspect of Dragon Age 2.  Unless you are a VERY skilled player (much more skilled than I), the game forces you to either:

Play as a Mage (and probably take Spirit Healer)

or

Take Anders (and focus on healing with him).

The only other healing in the game (other than minor Reaver skills) that I have found is Bethany, who gets the one Creation spell on a longish cooldown, and is not available if you play as a Mage.

Obviously, you can invest heavily in potions, but the cooldown on those is not insignificant either.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but to try and play the game, especially at higher difficulty, without a Spirit Healer or Anders, is not even fun (for me, anyway).

In Dragon Age, Morrigan could learn Creation magic or become a Spirit Healer, so you had 3 options for a healer, depending on your tastes.  Here, it forces you to do it yourself or take Anders--who I despise.  Merrill is my favorite NPC (with Varric a close second), but the fact she can't take ANY healing makes it difficult to include her (although I finished the game easily on normal playing a Mage with her, Varric, and Aveline most of the time).  If Bethany could learn Spirit Healer, it would solve my problem for Warriors and Rogues--and I could live with that, because, frankly, Spirit Healer is the best specialization for Mages (because of the passive hit point buff mostly).  I usually used all my offensive skills until they were on cooldowns AND people needed healing, then switch to Spirit Healing, use my group heal and rez if needed, then back to offense.

But I'd like to play on Nightmare with a Rogue or Warrior and I can't get past HAVING to take Anders--if I could I'd execute him upon first meeting.

What have others done to cirumvent this?

[TheAwesomologist]

I think they forced the "Anders is your only Healer/Haste" option because of the story. Pathetic really. That said on the PC side you can always add the Creation tree to Merrill via mods. It makes her over powered but its the only way. Here's hoping they eventually add a new Mage character via DLC.

[Lesdeth]

I have to agree.  Anders is by far my least favorite character in this game, even with emo Fenris, whiny Carver, and proselytizing Sebastian.

When I first met him in DA2, I was excited for the Alistar clone with some witty remarks.  But low, he complains in almost every single remark he makes.  Worst character in the game in my opinion.

I personally gave Merrill the creation tree since I play on PC.  She isn't overpowered with it imo, because Anders with a decent will and con and Rock Armor worked just as well since mana isn't a problem for healers.

I wish they would have had a non-moronic healer in the game that I could use.

There could have been a circle mage conscripted to your party for assisting the Templars in a matter, or something similar.  Lack of creative thinking by the dev team.

[brazen_nl]

I'm guessing it's for the storyline, but I have to agree with you. Especially when you go do Merrill's second quest, the constant ranting when you go up Sundermuont ... driving me nuts. I have the same with Sebastian and his constant Maker babble. Luckily, he isn't essential.

Right now, I'm doing a mage gameplay, which is awesome so I don't have to bring Anders that often. I still do it sometimes for some mage nuke fun, but that's about it.

I can't imagine why BW have done this, as the R in RPG, especially for the dedicated roleplayers, there are situations there is just no way around him.

[Cutlass Jack]

Morthanos wrote...

What have others done to cirumvent this?

I used healing items and creative use of rogue hate control skills more than I ever used healing spells quite honestly. I've always felt the 'healing mage' was a bit of a crutch no matter who it was. I think the designers weren't purposely trying to force Anders in your group as they were trying to get people to use other types of skills as well. (hence the long cooldowns)

Which isn't to say I've never used Anders or Bethany. I just didn't really make healing their focus. Only certain gruelingly long battles (like the High Dragon) did I really make heavy use of Ander's healing arts.

[Maria Caliban]

I played a spirit healer my first game, almost never interacted with Anders, and then told him to leave me alone when he asked for me to distract the Grand Cleric. In my second playthrough, I told him to leave Kirkwall after he murdered that girl.

Part of me wishes I hadn't picked a mage for my first playthrough. It would have forced me to take him along and maybe I'd have some emotional connection to his character. As-is, I don't see him as a 'person' but plot device.

I'm considering playing a rogue who takes him everywhere and romances him, but I fear it won't end with me connecting to him, but quitting before the end of the second Act.

[Waltzingbear]

Well it's possible but it's no very much fun.

It's also not something that could be easily corrected. The problem lies within the creatures' and encounters' design and that would require a very big effort to redesign and is not as simple as say buffing Merrill's abilities' duration by 15% to make up for that; that would also create imbalance problems and would only make her stronger favoring her and Anders in any case.

The problem is that the majority of the fights contain a source of damage that is impossible to avoid, be that Rage Demons or bosses' spells.
Even if you were able to pull off a party that does not rely on healing but puts its focus on other aspects and you developed the perfect strategy for dealing with mages and rogues, you were most likely desperately obliterated at some point in the game, probably the Ancient Rock Wraith if not sooner.

[Running_Blind]

 It all depends on your party, choose characters and abilities that cover your weaknesses. If you don't want to take a healer, take tougher party members, Aveline, Fenris, Merille and Hawke (any class) are all survivors.
  Use Aveline's Bodyguard talent to protect your squishies, 50% is a LOT, combine that with Hero's Synergy and that character is taking 1/4 of the damage.
  Rally and Elemental Aegis will protect you from nasty AoE spells from Saarebas or blood mages, if you can't kill them in time.
  Taunt/Goad + Bulwark/Shield Wall makes a mockery of assassins, even just being able to tank one backstab should give you all the time you need to kill him.
  What's the point in constantly healing a squishy character, when you can
redirect all the damage to a warrior, who'll get healed for more and also take less damage, that's just one potion and you're good to go again.
  A favorite of mine is to use Templar abilities to shut down all the powerful attacks from elites/bosses so you don't even have to heal.

I've wandered of topic enough, basically I don't think you're in any way required to have a healer, you just can't win by attrition most of the time without one.

Modifié par Running_Blind, 13 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[SuicidalBaby]

ARW fight is possible with no healing and no Anders.

Bethany & Merrill
Beth is full elemental & creation for great haste
Merrill is full entropy, at least for upgraded Hex of Torment

move only a little to your left and push which ever warrior you have to the ARW close enough to taunt. burn him out of phase 1, when he starts lightning storm you can firestorm him from safety and attack when he gathers himself.


Bethany will die from the blight, but it is possible.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 13 avril 2011 - 05:50 .

[Running_Blind]

SuicidialBaby wrote...
Bethany will die from the blight, but it is possible.

Unacceptable.

[bunnies]

arw is doable without a tank, or with a ranged tank (namely varric), set to aggressive, beth and anders (dps anders) + a random non-tank hawke. Works wonders. varric will retreat back as wraith comes close enough to melee him, taking only lightning in p1, to which he is immune due to rune. after p1 is through, the wraith is a cakewalk anyway, just constantly move your party out of the way. Done using 2-3 potions and bethany heal, nightmare mode.
Kudos to my friend using illegal version and not being able to post this:P

[Att3r0]

the game is cut of optional things. Apart form the DLC you got one of each role - 1 tank (shield warrior) 1 2h war 1 dagger rogue 1 archer rogue 1 healer , 2 dps mages but since one is pretty much locked to be healer...
Thats how things this is not the greates RPG in history so we have to eat it.
I hope for some nice mage healer in DLC ( i realy dislike both Merrill and Anders)

[brazen_nl]

WHAT!? How can you dislike Merrill? xo

[Cutlass Jack]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm considering playing a rogue who takes him everywhere and romances him, but I fear it won't end with me connecting to him, but quitting before the end of the second Act.

Reccomendation: If you try this, go rival-mance. You'll end up with a more sympathetic Anders.

[CakesOnAPlane]

I got through on hard without Anders (except for a couple of tough fights like High Dragon) using 2-Handed Warrior, Aveline, Merill, Varric. Just used alot of crowd control and Varric's goad ability often. Having a solid main tank + off-tank really helped tho.

[cihimi]

I agree with OP.

[Maria Caliban]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm considering playing a rogue who takes him everywhere and romances him, but I fear it won't end with me connecting to him, but quitting before the end of the second Act.

Reccomendation: If you try this, go rival-mance. You'll end up with a more sympathetic Anders.

That's what I was thinking.

I've noticed that you tend to get deeper companions if you go rivalry. I'm not sure it's a design decision I like.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm considering playing a rogue who takes him everywhere and romances him, but I fear it won't end with me connecting to him, but quitting before the end of the second Act.

This is what happened to me, sadly

I did finish the game, but I blew through Act II in about two hours, because I felt I had to finish, but didn't want to have to actually play it.

My rivalmance was bugged, though, and from the "Justice" quest on, Anders treated my like I had friended him. It made killing him less-than-satisfying.

Disclaimer: while I didn't much care for Anders (I spent the whole game pining for Merrill), he's not what made it so painful for me. I just really hated playing a rogue.

[Mr.House]

Just mod Merrill with the creation tree or mod your warrior or rogue with the creation tree. It's possible.

[Sabriana]

Yah, I never take Anders, because he bores me to tears. Being on a PC, I'm lucky that I can get mods that give the talents to Merrill. I mean, who ever would imagine that a Keeper doesn't have healing skills? Didn't Marethari keep Dalish-Warden alive with spells until she could get her "cure"?

Anyway, Varric and "goad", Aveline and "taunt" (although that doesn't seem to work right for me), and lots of potions usually get me through just fine. I refuse to be shoehorned and forced into things by the game anymore than I already am.

If you play on NM, be careful with your DPS toon (Fenris, brother if applicable). They'll kill your party in one fell swoop if you don't take care.

[_Aine_]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I just really hated playing a rogue.

I'm usually a rogue, and I was a rogue who friendly-romanced Anders and took off with him in the end...(more out of memory of old-anders than this new one) but after I played Mage and 2-handed warrior in DA2? I can't play rogue again. It is so SLOW and unexciting compared to those.   To me.  

I am not big on the rivalmances being deeper than regular romances either, if that is true. Really??  Great, yet another playthrough to try this.  I keep intending to, but I prefer to romance someone who shares an outlook with me, not necessarily agreement though.

I mean, dysfunctional can be exciting in GAMES because usually, it is the exception to a world full of "normal" (in game terms anyway lol)  But everyone seems a barrel-full of angsty snarl in DA2.  Normal, by comparison, would have seemed pretty unique.   

OH:  It is perfectly acceptable and even FUN to make up your own parties based on what dialogue you want to hear....BUT:  you need to lower your difficulty.  If you are strict difficulty-must-be-hard or higher person, that won't work  

Modifié par shantisands, 13 avril 2011 - 08:48 .

[Sabriana]

shantisands wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I just really hated playing a rogue.

I'm usually a rogue, and I was a rogue who friendly-romanced Anders and took off with him in the end...(more out of memory of old-anders than this new one) but after I played Mage and 2-handed warrior in DA2? I can't play rogue again. It is so SLOW and unexciting compared to those.   To me.  

I am not big on the rivalmances being deeper than regular romances either, if that is true. Really??  Great, yet another playthrough to try this.  I keep intending to, but I prefer to romance someone who shares an outlook with me, not necessarily agreement though.

I mean, dysfunctional can be exciting in GAMES because usually, it is the exception to a world full of "normal" (in game terms anyway lol)  But everyone seems a barrel-full of angsty snarl in DA2.  Normal, by comparison, would have seem pretty unique.   

Oh you said a mouthful. And how true it is. Besides, I'm so used to getting drama and angst from all sides in certain games, that I usually just shrug it off.

Although I must say it helped that I've never encountered Anders before. To me, he was just as new as Aveline, Fenris and Varric.I don't like the rivalmance set-up at all. I have a lot of friends who have a vastly different outlook and opinion on various subject. We discuss them, heatedly at time, then agree to respect each other's outlook/opinion, and are - yes you guessed it - still great friends at the end.

So no, no rivalmances for me. Sabriana disapproves -50.

[DJ0000]

I agree. I don't undertand why Merril wouldn't have any hel spells either, that makes no sense at all.

[Morthanos]

Wow, thanks for all the fantastic responses. Many great takes and ideas which I'll investigate as I get ready to try my Nightmare run... some excellent ideas to ponder...

[Sparks1013]

I will never get over how Anders moans and groans about how oppressed mages are and stays on merrill's shoulder about using blood magic and then he turns around and blows up the chantry. My first playthrough I sided with the mages so I gave him another chance. In my second playthrough I sided with the templars and I killed that dick. Little did I know siding with the templars is a much harder end game series of events.