283 réponses à ce sujet

[Tasker]

Heavensrun wrote...

She doesn't -need- to, because she's never in vacuum. None of them are, except Shepard, who is covered.

So...  You didn't play the beginning of the game then, when Joker was in total vacum for at least 2 minutes? 


He was wearing his standard ship uniform and a face mask, his arms, neck, etc were exposed and the escape pod that he escaped in was outside the cockpits shield.


Now had he gone from the cockpit to the escape pod ( and shut the hatch ) in a few seconds then I wouldn't find fault as that's reasonable. But for him to stand there for a minute watching Shepard is rediculous.




Also, off on a slight tangent...

Say that the mass effect fields and biotic barriers did work as armour and protect you from atmospheric nastyness.   Why would you take the risk that something wouldn't go wrong with them or they ran out of power.  A basic sealed skinsuit should be a basic piece of equipment, even if it's just as a redundency backup. 

Modifié par Orkboy, 15 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[Rurik_Niall]

Terror_K wrote...

Again, Heavensrun, you're concocting
your own system to try and explain away the fact that the devs didn't
come up with one. It's all theory and guesswork on your part, and it
doesn't apply to Mass Effect as it is. You just don't seem to be able to
accept the basic fact that when making ME2 the team decided to go for
style over substance and didn't really think things through a lot of the
time. If they had, there would have been some explanation in place as
to how these events that currently don't make sense could make sense,
but there isn't. You're just trying to formulate "what if?" and "how it
could?" scenarios to fill the gaps yourself.

I do have to give
you some credit though: as much as I disagree with you, you've at least
given more thought to this than the ME2 devs did.

Alternatively from my perspective you're being needlessly pedantic about this. With a little thought one can figure out a way to make these nitpicks make sense in the context of the universe, official canon or not, and this should be sufficient to suspend one's disbelief in order to enjoy the game.

This is far easier for me to do than suspending my disbelief about the forest camouflage pattern on the Predator armour back in the first game. Unless you're actually in the appropriate setting for any given camouflage you might as well just paint a bullseye on your chest, it's roughly the same end effect. Standing around on a snow covered planet in green forest camouflage you're going to stand out like a Krogan at Disney World. Unlike Miranda's choice in outfits I can't think of any good reason for that, pseudo-science or otherwise.

Modifié par Rurik_Niall, 15 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[GodWood]

Honestly I couldn't give a sh*t if Bioware put a 50 page codex entry explaining how it's perfectly reasonable for the people on Shepard's squad (and only on Shepard's squad) to run around with their ****** hanging out in skin-tight catsuits with heels.
My problem is compared to the original game and everyone else in this game, it looks really, really stupid and hinders mine (and obviously a bunch of others) enjoyment of the game.
Now unless you're really desperate for catsuits and heels to return in ME3 I don't see why this should be such a big debate.

Modifié par GodWood, 15 avril 2011 - 06:31 .

[Rurik_Niall]

I happen to like catsuits, especially on a nice bbw, shame Miranda only looks a bit pudgy in the face.

[100k]

didymos1120 wrote...

100k wrote...

Hell, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for this to be common with almost all combat gear, even heavy armor. Shepard could easily get a pin sized hole in the flexible/rubber inner suit (between the heavier plating), and have the oxygen in his suit be vacuumed away if he were in space, or get poisoned if he were in a hostile environment.

Codex again:

The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments. Soldiers are not always fond of the "squish skin" that oozes gel on them at a moment's notice, but fatalities have dropped sharply since the system was implemented.

Ah. Well. It seems that Bioware and I have similar thoughts on the matter then.

Well then, I can fully accept that Miranda is able to waltz around in vacuum, provided she where a helmet.

[100k]

Orkboy wrote...

Also, off on a slight tangent...

Say that the mass effect fields and biotic barriers did work as armour and protect you from atmospheric nastyness.   Why would you take the risk that something wouldn't go wrong with them or they ran out of power.  A basic sealed skinsuit should be a basic piece of equipment, even if it's just as a redundency backup. 

Especially if you're expecting combat in hostile environments.

[Rurik_Niall]

If you're expecting combat in hostile environments do you really think a measly envirosuit is any safer? There's a reason Quarians aren't known for being frontline fighters like Turians or Krogans you know.

[didymos1120]

Orkboy wrote...

Now had he gone from the cockpit to the escape pod ( and shut the hatch ) in a few seconds then I wouldn't find fault as that's reasonable. But for him to stand there for a minute watching Shepard is rediculous.

It's ~40 seconds from Joker leaving his seat to Shep sealing the pod. If that mask had a good seal, that's doable, though probably very uncomfortable.

[100k]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

If you're expecting combat in hostile environments do you really think a measly envirosuit is any safer? There's a reason Quarians aren't known for being frontline fighters like Turians or Krogans you know.

So then...what do you propose?

[Rurik_Niall]

Avoiding open combat in hostile environments for a start.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

But how could you keep a shell
of air in? The codex states that there's a use of mass effect fields in
conjunction with a dense gas layer that keeps the air in. The dense gas
layer would prevent the oxygen/atmopshere layer from simply floating
into space and being useless. How the mass effect fields work I have no
idea - maybe they prevent the heavier gas payer from dropping too far
and suffocating everyone?

Correction, the codex states that the atmosphere is sustained by the membrane of dense gas, the gas is kept in place by the Mass Effect field.

How is that a correction? That's exactly what I theorised...

[Terror_K]

GodWood wrote...

Honestly I couldn't give a sh*t if Bioware put a 50 page codex entry explaining how it's perfectly reasonable for the people on Shepard's squad (and only on Shepard's squad) to run around with their ****** hanging out in skin-tight catsuits with heels.
My problem is compared to the original game and everyone else in this game, it looks really, really stupid and hinders mine (and obviously a bunch of others) enjoyment of the game.
Now unless you're really desperate for catsuits and heels to return in ME3 I don't see why this should be such a big debate.

^ This too actually. I don't honestly get why so many people are against a little more realism and actually seem to want these silly style over substance, Rule of Cool, Michael Bay-esque factors in the game in the first place. Would giving the squaddies some proper protection actually ruin the game for you that much?

[Rurik_Niall]

I'm not partial either way really, but it's realistic enough as it is for me, hell they can throw in a race of space leprechauns and I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I simply don't care if it's realistic or not, this isn't Medal of Honour where it's supposed to be set in our own past and therefor is expected to remain fairly realistic, it's set in a sci-fi future where anything the writers want can happen because they have magic pixie dust in the guise of element zero. As long as the gameplay is fun and I get to play the Big Damn Hero trope straight I'm happy.

Modifié par Rurik_Niall, 15 avril 2011 - 08:00 .

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Honestly I couldn't give a sh*t if Bioware put a 50 page codex entry explaining how it's perfectly reasonable for the people on Shepard's squad (and only on Shepard's squad) to run around with their ****** hanging out in skin-tight catsuits with heels.
My problem is compared to the original game and everyone else in this game, it looks really, really stupid and hinders mine (and obviously a bunch of others) enjoyment of the game.
Now unless you're really desperate for catsuits and heels to return in ME3 I don't see why this should be such a big debate.

^ This too actually. I don't honestly get why so many people are against a little more realism and actually seem to want these silly style over substance, Rule of Cool, Michael Bay-esque factors in the game in the first place. Would giving the squaddies some proper protection actually ruin the game for you that much?

if you two wanna play dress up - play ME1 or get out some power rangers figures and work it out of your systems. most people (and that includes people that *gasp* never post on forums) liked the individual outfits in the sequel just fine. as i previously stated they added to the individual characters a lot more than generic armours in the first ever did - and neither of you ahd a decent counter to that when i brought it up. remember that dev post about ME3 enemies having recognisable silhouettes? - well guess what that works in ME2 with squaddies just fine (and i'm sure it will in ME3 too).

oh and terror_k you really have to do something about your love/hate relationship with michael bay - it's all you ever bring up, but nobody else has ever used it as a reference point that i've seen.

edit: and don't bring up "realism" in a science fiction game when you are arguing that a low-level shield couldn't keep out small particles (poison, certain atmoshpheres etc.) and use less power than one designed to repel low-c. projectiles from guns - that's patently ridiculous.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 15 avril 2011 - 08:25 .

[Terror_K]

As I've said countless times, Jebel, you don't need to have to dress the squad yourself or sacrifice "looking individual" in order to be practical. Outfits don't need to be generic to be sensible, and being sensible doesn't automatically mean being generic. All it would have taken in the cases of Miranda and Samara was their cleavage and necks to be sealed and a helmet on when it was required: that's it! That's not going to take away from their "unique look" at all. But god-forbid we get away from ******, ass and high heels and stop giving teenagers a raging hard-on for five seconds.

As for the Michael Bay comment, while I may reference him specifically, I've seen plenty of people note how ME2 was more like modern mindless Hollywood action flicks and less like the classic sci-fi movies of the Late 70's through to early 90's that ME1 replicated more (and that Casey Hudson himself has said was supposed to be the influence and style of the universe) plenty of times. There has even been a thread floating around here recently on the subject.

Overall, to deny that ME2 went more for "rule of cool" and style over substance is just stupidity. It's one thing to say you may prefer it or simply accept it, but to say it didn't happen is just plain false.

[CannotCompute]

Terror_K wrote...

As I've said countless times, Jebel, you don't need to have to dress the squad yourself or sacrifice "looking individual" in order to be practical. Outfits don't need to be generic to be sensible, and being sensible doesn't automatically mean being generic. All it would have taken in the cases of Miranda and Samara was their cleavage and necks to be sealed and a helmet on when it was required: that's it! That's not going to take away from their "unique look" at all.

+1

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Jebel Krong wrote...

most people (and that includes people that *gasp* never post on forums) liked the individual outfits in the sequel just fine.

Does that make you a psychic, considering that you somehow seem to know the opinions of every single person you've never had anything to do with?

[Admoniter]

Maybe its just the way that I interpret most of these posts, fatigue or a combination of the two. But it seems to me that most people arguing the polarizing issues (squad armor, inventory, exploration, rpg elements, etc...) seem to have an if your not with me your against me mindset. And its not just in this topic but in the others to, there is always that group of people who if you take their responses at face value come off as people who see things in only black and white. What I mean is that these posts basically read like this, "ME1 did it this way, ME2 did it another way, I don't want to go back to ME1." Now maybe in this state of mine I have reach a plane of higher understanding but are people completely ignoring a happy middle ground, or heaven forbid compromise on both sides? Did ME1 do these things perfectly? No; did ME2? Once again no, why does it have to be one or the other; or is it a requirement for everyone to leave reason at the door before they post?

The idea that there cannot be unique suits that are tailored for the individual that still look like they can actually be functional, frankly baffles me. You know form and function working as one.


Lore/common sense issues with the squad outfits in ME2 aside, it just looks bad. Any squad of intergalactic bad asses has to look the part as well. And well... there's a problem when you have people running around with damaged armor, various parts of the body exposed (especially cleavage which last I checked counted at center-mass, you know the place most people will be aiming for) and the worst offender of all people running around in suits one would expect to find in a shady cement building called  "The pleasure factory." And this isn't getting into areas where these sort of things would never ever fly *cough Collector Vessel, the chlorine choked hell hole, Haestrom, The Flotilla, etc...

Jebel Krong wrote...
if you two wanna play dress up - play ME1 or get out some power rangers figures and work it out of your systems.

Funny thing actually I can still play dress up in ME2, infact for the most part I can get a unified Team Shep color scheme going on. Its just that when it comes to the outfits in ME2 sense goes right out the window to make way for "flash" as in all flash no substance. This of course says nothing of having functional looking armor that still maintains a unique look/personal stlye.

[Jebel Krong]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

most people (and that includes people that *gasp* never post on forums) liked the individual outfits in the sequel just fine.

Does that make you a psychic, considering that you somehow seem to know the opinions of every single person you've never had anything to do with?

no but the simple fact is, it's not even mentioned on any other site or forum more than, perhaps, once - it's simply a non-issue except for a few people here.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 15 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[GodWood]

Jebel Krong wrote...
if you two wanna play dress up - play ME1 or get out some power rangers figures and work it out of your systems. most people (and that includes people that *gasp* never post on forums) liked the individual outfits in the sequel just fine.

Please tell me how you know the opinions of the people whose opinion you haven't heard?

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

As I've said countless times, Jebel, you don't need to have to dress the squad yourself or sacrifice "looking individual" in order to be practical. Outfits don't need to be generic to be sensible, and being sensible doesn't automatically mean being generic. All it would have taken in the cases of Miranda and Samara was their cleavage and necks to be sealed and a helmet on when it was required: that's it! That's not going to take away from their "unique look" at all. But god-forbid we get away from ******, ass and high heels and stop giving teenagers a raging hard-on for five seconds.

As for the Michael Bay comment, while I may reference him specifically, I've seen plenty of people note how ME2 was more like modern mindless Hollywood action flicks and less like the classic sci-fi movies of the Late 70's through to early 90's that ME1 replicated more (and that Casey Hudson himself has said was supposed to be the influence and style of the universe) plenty of times. There has even been a thread floating around here recently on the subject.

Overall, to deny that ME2 went more for "rule of cool" and style over substance is just stupidity. It's one thing to say you may prefer it or simply accept it, but to say it didn't happen is just plain false.

just because a few opinionated people say things, doesn't automatically make them true. to many people mass effect has remained completely consistent in terms of presentation/feel/inspiration etc. just because you read michael bay into it, certainly doesn't mean i see anything like that in there, because there isn't. indeed ME2 is far closer to say, blade runner, than ME1 was, yet still contains a lot of the elements of the original, too.

the difference is: you don't like it so you bleat about 'michael bay' in an effort to obfuscate your actual argument.

again: if you change the outfits so they all look "practical" (i.e. fully-covered) you might just as well have the Me1 armour-sets. i hated that - i liked the variety of ME2: thane looks and dresses like an assassin, miranda a covert agent/femme fatale, kasumi a sneaky thief, grunt/zaeed a hardened soldier, mordin and (redesigned liara) scientists, all of that would be lost to baseless genericity.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 15 avril 2011 - 09:52 .

[lolwut666]

Nitpickers gonna nitpick.

My take on this: everybody has either shields or barriers. The only thing they can't protect themselves with these defenses is likely lack of oxygen.

Then why, you ask, Shepard wears armor? Remember that the armor pieces don't necessarily increase your survivability. Some improve health and shields, yes, but others increase your storm speed, melee damage, power damage, among others, while offering no additional protection. So you could say that Shepard's shield/barrier does all the protecting, and his armor pieces simply offer a few extra advantages.

[Rurik_Niall]

Admoniter wrote...

Maybe its just the way that I interpret most of these posts, fatigue or a combination of the two. But it seems to me that most people arguing the polarizing issues (squad armor, inventory, exploration, rpg elements, etc...) seem to have an if your not with me your against me mindset. And its not just in this topic but in the others to, there is always that group of people who if you take their responses at face value come off as people who see things in only black and white. What I mean is that these posts basically read like this, "ME1 did it this way, ME2 did it another way, I don't want to go back to ME1." Now maybe in this state of mine I have reach a plane of higher understanding but are people completely ignoring a happy middle ground, or heaven forbid compromise on both sides? Did ME1 do these things perfectly? No; did ME2? Once again no, why does it have to be one or the other; or is it a requirement for everyone to leave reason at the door before they post?

The idea that there cannot be unique suits that are tailored for the individual that still look like they can actually be functional, frankly baffles me. You know form and function working as one.


Lore/common sense issues with the squad outfits in ME2 aside, it just looks bad. Any squad of intergalactic bad asses has to look the part as well. And well... there's a problem when you have people running around with damaged armor, various parts of the body exposed (especially cleavage which last I checked counted at center-mass, you know the place most people will be aiming for) and the worst offender of all people running around in suits one would expect to find in a shady cement building called  "The pleasure factory." And this isn't getting into areas where these sort of things would never ever fly *cough Collector Vessel, the chlorine choked hell hole, Haestrom, The Flotilla, etc...

I would argue that the individual confident enough to go into battle without armour has a certain merit in terms of badassitude actually, it's sort of like a double bladed lightsabre. Anyone wielding a double bladed lightsabre is one of two things, foolish because they're liable to cut themself in half with it, or badass because they know they can kick your ass with it. Sort of the same principle here. Someone who charges into battle with no armour is either foolish or so badass they don't need it.

[didymos1120]

lolwut666 wrote...

So you could say that Shepard's shield/barrier does all the protecting, and his armor pieces simply offer a few extra advantages.

OK, I guess I'll post this again:

If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection, reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil away or ablate rather than burning the wearer.

That's what armor is for. As with many things, gameplay-wise, it doesn't function exactly as the lore would have it, but that's how it "really" works.

[Babli]

Yeah, its stupid. If we have high heels, space boobs and brether masks in ME3, I wont buy it for full price.