214 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Gamer790 wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. If Sovereign had controlled the Rachni, it would know the location of the Mu relay

Sovereign at that time didn't even know the importance of the Ilos and the Coundouit at that time, it wasn't untill Saren found the first Beacon where the Mu Relay became important to Sovereigns plans.

Frankly what I am having a hard time fathoming is how the reapers were never able to find and destroy the conduit 50, 000 years prior ME 1.  Sure the Protheans cut it off from the rest of the galaxy, but the reapers, as Vigil stated, knew everything about the protheans from the citidal.  I am I to believe that replicating a mass relay, probably the biggest scientific achievement of its time, would go undocumented in the central seat of the galactic government?  What, was this a splinter faction of the protheans who were rebeling against the greater whole of society by studying the inner workings and origins of the mass relays?

Vigil points out specifically that the data about Ilos on the Citadel was destroyed during the Reaper initial invasion.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

[The BS Police]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

And yet you refuse to believe that the Illusive Man is decieving you about his motives with the Collector Base.

Modifié par The BS Police, 15 avril 2011 - 08:31 .

[Gamer790]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gamer790 wrote...

If the Mu Relay's location was unknown prior to extracting it from the Rachni queen's memory than how is it that anyone knew about Ilos before the mission to Norvaria.  Liara said that she remembered Ilos from her studies.  That implies that galactic society had known about it before hand.  Now I could accept it if there were other, longer ways to reach Ilos, but the salarian council member states that it is accessible ONLY through the Mu relay.  How can one know about a planet and visit and study that planet without knowing the only way to reach it beforehand?  Now if this has all ready been answered then pardon me, but in all of the time that I have spent reading over these fourms I've yet to see someone address this question.

Liara (and the Ilos entry in the Codex) says that Ilos is known to the Asari from the studies of the Prothean ruins elsewhere. Like, say, from an ancient Prothean star chart, with the Mu relay on it. Only the Mu relay isn't there, so they can't go to Ilos. Nobody was visiting Ilos before Saren and Shepard.

Codex entry for Ilos

=== Planets: Ilos ===
 
Like the ancient human city of Troy, Ilos is a world known only through second-hand sources. References
to Ilos have been found at several other Prothean ruins, though direct study of the world is unlikely to
occur.
 
Ilos lies in a remote area of the Terminus Systems only accessible by the legendary Mu Relay. Four
thousand years ago, the Mu Relay was knocked out of position by a supernova and lost. Since then, Ilos
and its cluster have been inaccessible.
 
Occasionally, a university will organize an expedition to chart a route to Ilos using conventional FTL
drive. These never get beyond the planning stages due to the distance and danger. The journey could
take years or decades, passing through the hostile Terminus Systems and dozens of unexplored systems.

Fair enough, but why would the reapers need to extract its location from someones elses memory?  I would figure that if they created the relays they would have the forethought to devise a means of locating them in case such an instance like the supernova occured.  Epesically since they consider themselves everlasting I expect they would realize that phenomena like supernovas will happen from time to time.

[Zulu_DFA]

The BS Police wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

And yet you refuse to believe that the Illusive Man is decieving you about his motives with the Collector Base.

TIM isn't a giant space bug, you know.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

Actually, you did - you said the Rachni started the war because "the rachni are bad themselves" and as proof that they were "bad" - you pointed at the Queen's "deception" at Peak 15.

Again, you never said they were instinctualy defending themselves from danger - you said they're "bad".  

[Zulu_DFA]

Gamer790 wrote...

Fair enough, but why would the reapers need to extract its location from someones elses memory?  I would figure that if they created the relays they would have the forethought to devise a means of locating them in case such an instance like the supernova occured.  Epesically since they consider themselves everlasting I expect they would realize that phenomena like supernovas will happen from time to time.

Perhaps it was an unexpected, unpredictable event, akin to Dholen's rapid aging.

[The BS Police]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

And yet you refuse to believe that the Illusive Man is decieving you about his motives with the Collector Base.

TIM isn't a giant space bug, you know.

Yeah I know he's human, which makes him even less trustworthy than a giant space bug.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

So you base your trust around physical apperance?

Wow

The space bugs aren't chain smoking alchaholics with a history of deceiving either.

[Gamer790]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Gamer790 wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. If Sovereign had controlled the Rachni, it would know the location of the Mu relay

Sovereign at that time didn't even know the importance of the Ilos and the Coundouit at that time, it wasn't untill Saren found the first Beacon where the Mu Relay became important to Sovereigns plans.

Frankly what I am having a hard time fathoming is how the reapers were never able to find and destroy the conduit 50, 000 years prior ME 1.  Sure the Protheans cut it off from the rest of the galaxy, but the reapers, as Vigil stated, knew everything about the protheans from the citidal.  I am I to believe that replicating a mass relay, probably the biggest scientific achievement of its time, would go undocumented in the central seat of the galactic government?  What, was this a splinter faction of the protheans who were rebeling against the greater whole of society by studying the inner workings and origins of the mass relays?

Vigil points out specifically that the data about Ilos on the Citadel was destroyed during the Reaper initial invasion.

Well I suppose this is where suspension of disbelief comes in then.  Still though damn that's quite convinient for our heroes then.  The one piece of knowledge the reapers need to screw advanced organic life over again and they accidentally destroy it.  I accept this though becase generally every great epic requires that if our heroes must face nigh impossible odds then luck will need to favor them from time to time if we want them to succeed.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

Actually, you did - you said the Rachni started the war because "the rachni are bad themselves" and as proof that they were "bad" - you pointed at the Queen's "deception" at Peak 15.

Again, you never said they were instinctualy defending themselves from danger - you said they're "bad".  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Deception =/= bad.

But if you say you're good, and are deceitful while doing that, that seriously suggests that you ain't that good at all.

[didymos1120]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, she isn't. She cautions that this is the last of their race but she doesn't actually advocate saving her and if you decide to kill the queen she wont' argue with you about it.

Ash's line is "We'd be making a whole race extinct.  I don't want that on my conscience when I go to the final judgement."

That's pretty clear to me: don't kill her.

[Gamer790]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gamer790 wrote...

Fair enough, but why would the reapers need to extract its location from someones elses memory?  I would figure that if they created the relays they would have the forethought to devise a means of locating them in case such an instance like the supernova occured.  Epesically since they consider themselves everlasting I expect they would realize that phenomena like supernovas will happen from time to time.

Perhaps it was an unexpected, unpredictable event, akin to Dholen's rapid aging.

That or maybe the writers were just focused on getting how the rachni were still alive and why they were involved in the main plot out the way and not so much how it ties back to reality and common sense.  I accept that to though because if every story had to be one hundred percent reality bound I doubt there would be that many entertaining epics and narritives out there.

Modifié par Gamer790, 15 avril 2011 - 09:05 .

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, she isn't. She cautions that this is the last of their race but she doesn't actually advocate saving her and if you decide to kill the queen she wont' argue with you about it.

Ash's line is "We'd be making a whole race extinct.  I don't want that on my conscience when I go to the final judgement."

That's pretty clear to me: don't kill her.

Lol.

It's pretty clear Ashley doesn't give a damn about the queen or its whole effing race. The only thing she cares about is her immortal soul.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Which makes clear that she thinks killing the queen is wrong. If she thought killing her was moraly right than she'd have nothing to fear come judgment day.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

Actually, you did - you said the Rachni started the war because "the rachni are bad themselves" and as proof that they were "bad" - you pointed at the Queen's "deception" at Peak 15.

Again, you never said they were instinctualy defending themselves from danger - you said they're "bad".  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Deception =/= bad.

But if you say you're good, and are deceitful while doing that, that seriously suggests that you ain't that good at all.

Hey, don't look at me - you're the one who used "deception" as an example of the rachni being "bad".  Not me.  Being "bad" and "deceptive" is dangerous.  You didn't mention anything about instinct until I brought it up as the reason why she'd scrabble around in a tank.

So you're contradicting yourself.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And that, I mean the instincts, is what makes the Rachni so dangerous. After all, their self-defense instincts caused the Rachni Wars.

No, you said the Queen was practicing deception and that that's what made her so dangerous, you didn't mention instinct anywhere.  

With regards to what started the war we have us this here Rachni Queen sending us a message through some asari...  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I didn't say deception was making the Rachni dangerous.

I did imply that the fact that the Queen was deceiving you, suggests that it could be doing it the whole time.

Actually, you did - you said the Rachni started the war because "the rachni are bad themselves" and as proof that they were "bad" - you pointed at the Queen's "deception" at Peak 15.

Again, you never said they were instinctualy defending themselves from danger - you said they're "bad".  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Deception =/= bad.

But if you say you're good, and are deceitful while doing that, that seriously suggests that you ain't that good at all.

Hey, don't look at me - you're the one who used "deception" as an example of the rachni being "bad".  Not me.  Being "bad" and "deceptive" is dangerous.  You didn't mention anything about instinct until I brought it up as the reason why she'd scrabble around in a tank.

So you're contradicting yourself.

It was not an example of being bad, don't put words in my mouth that didn't come out of it.

[AlexMBrennan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, she isn't. She cautions that this is the last of their race but she doesn't actually advocate saving her and if you decide to kill the queen she wont' argue with you about it.

Ash's line is "We'd be making a whole race extinct.  I don't want that on my conscience when I go to the final judgement."

That's pretty clear to me: don't kill her.

Lol.

It's pretty clear Ashley doesn't give a damn about the queen or its whole effing race. The only thing she cares about is her immortal soul.

That makes no sense - the Bible clearly says that genocide is good (only killing members of your clan/group/whatever is bad). Most likely she just realised that killing the last member of a species is difficult to undo and that their mandate (hunt Saren) does not extend genocide.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 15 avril 2011 - 08:57 .

[Ferginator]

No she wont betray me because then ill get the sentence to say to her this if she thinks about it "if you betray me ill pop out mass effect 3 disc right now! and put in ME1 and ill kick your ass and kill you haha i got you now" lol im still in control.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Let me get this straight. You're saying that the Rachni were never indoctrinated but they work for the reapers.

Not everything that is bad comes from the Reapers. The Rachni were bad by themselves.

There's evidence to suggest strongly the Rachni were previously indoctrinated.  When you speak to the asari on Illium (if the Queen in spared in ME1).  The asari tells Shepard that the Queen believes Shepard is fighting the enemy who "soured the song of" the rachni.

Shepard fights Krogans, Salarians and Asari all over the galaxy.

Almostfaceman wrote...

Why would the Queen care to thank me and tell me this if she was planning on attacking humans or asari or if she was "already bad"?  I've already let her go and already filed a report to the Council, so her lying to me at this point is like letting the horses out after the barn's burned down.

What was the point of all those inconsequential cameos and e-mails in ME2?

What is the point of any lie?

Almostfaceman wrote...

Anyway, it's something to consider.

Something else to consider:

At Peak 15, the queen pretends to submit itself fully to Shepard's judgement. But if you choose to burn it, it tries to struggle and release itself. That's called deception.

This conversation, you and I are talking about you calling them "bad by themselves" vs. being "indoctrinated" and you bring up "deception".  I'm not putting words in your mouth.  Here is you doing it right in this thread - in the quote above.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 15 avril 2011 - 09:02 .

[didymos1120]

Thargorichiban wrote...

Has anyone considered that the husk featured in GI that kind of looks like a Rachni could also just as easily be a Keeper husk? I've looked at both character models and to me it seems like a toss-up.

Don't see why you think it's a "toss-up".  The anatomy is basically all wrong for a keeper. Just a few:

a.  Legs project from the body at angles more consistent with a rachni than a keeper
b.  Mouthparts resemble rachni, not keeper
c.  Keepers have actual necks.  Rachni don't, and neither does the husk shown.
d. Torso doesn't have that "bulb" appearance that keepers possess
e. Leg tips single-pointed like a rachni; lack the three-point "feet" of a keeper.
f.  Legs articulated like a rachni, not a keeper

For reference:

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

This conversation, you and I are talking about you calling them "bad by themselves" vs. being "indoctrinated" and you bring up "deception".  I'm not putting words in your mouth.  Here is you doing it right in this thread - in the quote above.

Here is a deal: you count the number of words between "bad by themselves" and "deception", and I'll explain to you why the queen's deception is not an example of its being bad.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

This conversation, you and I are talking about you calling them "bad by themselves" vs. being "indoctrinated" and you bring up "deception".  I'm not putting words in your mouth.  Here is you doing it right in this thread - in the quote above.

Here is a deal: you count the number of words between "bad by themselves" and "deception", and I'll explain to you why the queen's deception is not an example of its being bad.

No deal, you bring it up as a point - it's there for all to judge.  You wanna deny it, that's cool.  I've made my point.

[Gamer790]

[/quote]
Something else to consider:

At Peak 15, the queen pretends to submit itself fully to Shepard's judgement. But if you choose to burn it, it tries to struggle and release itself. That's called deception.[/quote]

This conversation, you and I are talking about you calling them "bad by themselves" vs. being "indoctrinated" and you bring up "deception".  I'm not putting words in your mouth.  Here is you doing it right in this thread - in the quote above.

[/quote]
What I saw was not deception, but a living, sentient being doing every it can to survive and I am more than confident that anyone else would probably do the exact same thing.

[MrDizazta]

didymos1120 wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

Has anyone considered that the husk featured in GI that kind of looks like a Rachni could also just as easily be a Keeper husk? I've looked at both character models and to me it seems like a toss-up.

Don't see why you think it's a "toss-up".  The anatomy is basically all wrong for a keeper. Just a few:

a.  Legs project from the body at angles more consistent with a rachni than a keeper
b.  Mouthparts resemble rachni, not keeper
c.  Keepers have actual necks.  Rachni don't, and neither does the husk shown.
d. Torso doesn't have that "bulb" appearance that keepers possess
e. Leg tips single-pointed like a rachni; lack the three-point "feet" of a keeper.
f.  Legs articulated like a rachni, not a keeper

For reference:

Heavy risk posting that.