5 réponses à ce sujet

[Gongsun Zan]

Alright, I just finished the game, and the last quest really bugged me. I'm sure plenty has been said about the whole Mage/Templar choice at the end, so I won't dwell on it here. Rather, let's talk about the penultimate quest instead, the one with the whole conspiracy against Meredith.

I admit, it kinda came out of nowhere. But I think it offered a far more interesting choice than the final quest, one that the game never truly explored: do we support the fundamentalist approach taken by Meredith, or do we support the conspiracy's (never really fleshed out, but for the sake of this argument let's just say more liberal) stance? Keep in mind that the conspiracy consisted of both Templars and Mages.

Perhaps this is what could have happened:

The Conspiracy starts a movement demanding greater freedoms for Mages (Anders's stance). Maybe the mages are allowed to live with their families, maybe they get a tavern or two to get drunk in. The downside is rather than shunning Blood Magic, they believe it can be used as a tool to be studied and used (Merril's stance). The Templars who go along with the plan are mage sympathizers like Thrask, or who simply believe that it's better to support the mages rather than letting them explode themselves unsupervised.

On the other hand, you have Meredith. She believes that blood magic is evil, and actively purges any mage suspected of using it. On the downside, the rest of the mages have really ****ty lives. Supporting her would be the general populace and people like Fenris, who fear that giving mages more power would lead to another Tevinter Imperium.

Obviously, this approach would have required some serious re-writing of the last act. But I do think that it would have presented the player with a proper moral choice, as opposed to the whole CRAZY LADY v FLESHY UNDEAD HEAP affair the game throws at you after it jumps off the slippery slope. 

Thoughts?

Modifié par Gongsun Zan, 14 avril 2011 - 01:13 .

[Mnemnosyne]

I have strong suspicions that many of the templars involved in that were, in fact, being controlled by Grace. I can think of no other explanation why, after Thrask tells everyone to stand down and Grace murders him, the other templars would assist her in trying to kill the Champion. They certainly have no reason to hold a grudge against the Champion, nothing to seek revenge against Hawke for, so why would they continue to aid Grace rather than side with the Champion? Furthermore, why, if Hawke has been consistently and publically siding with the mages, would everyone seem to think Hawke is working for Meredith? The only explanation is that Grace is manipulating them to believe this, since her true agenda is to kill Hawke in revenge.

That said, if Grace hadn't been nutty and fixated on killing Hawke for having killed Decimus all those years ago, I think the conspiracy could have turned out beneficial for the moment, but it's very hard to say what would have happened in the long term. They might have deposed Meredith and perhaps gotten Thrask installed as Knight-Commander, but then what? All these mages were using blood magic and numerous templars knew. And if I am wrong about them being controlled, then they were accepting the mages' use of blood magic as a necessary tool. Would they then turn on the mages and return to the 'blood magic is evil' stance? Would they try to moderate their stance to see blood magic as just another tool? This would be beneficial overall, in theory. However...

You would also have to consider the reaction from outside. Any hint that the templars are supporting blood mages would very likely result in the Divine herself calling for a Rite of Annulment and sending a templar army to carry it out. Could they keep the fact that all these mages are blood mages secret enough that no one would know? If they did manage to keep it a secret, what would be the next step? Try to take over other Circles in the same manner? Keep quiet and do nothing? The longer nothing major happens, the more likely that someone will betray them to the outside, so the situation couldn't last as Kirkwall alone being home of rational blood mages.

[Gongsun Zan]

I'm not arguing that the conspiracy would have been a 'better' option, I just feel it was a largely underdeveloped one that could have made a more interesting end-game choice than one the game presents you with.

Personally, I wish games had a Director's Commentary or sorts - I would really like to know the reasons why Bioware designed the end game as they did.

[LobselVith8]

Probably the same reason why hardly anyone acknowledges an apostate Hawke - they want us to walk down one road as the protagonist. They designed the quest down a linear path, and Hawke has to fight mages even if he's denounced Meredith before the public. I would have liked to see how Ser Thrask's initiative would have worked out, with mages and templars working together. He was a good man who saw both sides of the coin and tried to create a solution that would have been the best for everyone involved in Kirkwall.

[Avilia]

My problem with the conspiracy was this - if your Hawke had a history of siding with the mages, there should have been initial dialogue. Perhaps an attempt to recruit - instead its "kidnap someone important so you'll support us" - the complete lack of common sense and logic in that is breathtaking.

I see what the OP is saying however, and I agree that it would have been a much more interesting choice. Instead we got both sides going bat-sh!t crazy, Oh well.

I also agree with Koyasha if they had developed the consipiracy as the pivotal choice - Templars siding with blood mages? I don't think the Devine would settle for annulment, that could be grounds for worse. Interesting idea that the Templars were being controlled by Grace (and perhaps the other blood mages) - makes the whole thing a lot less "WTF" and more "ooooh, kk, I get it".

(OT comment - all these blood mages you'd think they'd just move to Tevinter ;-))

[jds1bio]

Especially since the game ends via a Macguffin, one which the game tries to blame you for because you went on the Deep Roads quest. If the game had given me a choice, I would have completed my "rise to power" a different way. Who knows, Hawke might have been offered a part in the conspiracy that Hawke had a chance to accept.

Having said that, when Orsino realizes that Meredith is not all conspiracy-cuckoo, maybe you could have sided with the mages then to help Orsino calm the mages down. That could have led to some inflamed conflicts within the Circle or against Grace, which then forces Meredith's hand to act before the idol becomes a factor. Then Meredith has to face the circle, the conspiracy (because the templars in the conspiracy have to react), and possibly the Champion. Maybe at this point Hawke can convince Meredith not to use the idol. I don't know.

Or, tell Meredith that Orsino's suspicions are making him lose it, catalyze Meredith to act. Now Varric's story changes - Hawke is responsible after all. The conspiracy templars and the conspiracy mages now have to act, undo any defense Orsino might have, and then all hell breaks loose.

There were definitely ways to go with this, but instead we get a Macguffin in charge. And even with that, they could have wove it into the conspiracy and made you answer the final question that way, instead of making The Last Straw the same straw as every other straw.

My preferred ending, no matter who you side with: once Hawke, as champion, calms things down in a final battle sequence shaped by ALL your prior dialogues and decisions (perhaps made very difficult if you hated everyone), Hawke leaves the city for a short while. Hawke goes to Sundermount and opens the amulet (yes I think this should have happened at the end, so that Flemeth bookends Varric's story). Flemeth delivers her warnings (which carries more weight now), flies away, and you have a satisfying finale still with an open ending.

But instead, no. Oh well, it's not my game.