49 réponses à ce sujet

[nickan1022]

I'm not sure how you've managed your character's stats, but if you haven't already pumped ability points into your characters' constitution scores, you're going to struggle. I'm willing to bet that overlooking this stat is a common cause of the "1-shot" syndrome that people experience. I play on nightmare, and most members of my party have 35-60 constitution by the end of the game.

Another area people tend to neglect is "disabling" spells, or crowd control. I have two mages in my party. Merrill, my offensive (but cute, zomg) mage has more debilitating spells than damage spells. Chain lightning for CCCs with my warrior when fighting elites and such, and other goodies from the primal tree, but she has a wide variety of upgraded debilitators (Paralyzing Prison, Horror, Petrify, Hexes), so that I can stun-lock an enemy long enough to kill it if needed. Anders has Glyph of Paralysis, which, I can't recommend highly enough. Get the upgraded version of that spell and set him to paralyze clusters of 2 or 3 and that spell becomes a beast. My warrior Hawke also has the Silence (and Dispel) ability, which I use on spellcasters (and assassins) to keep them managed while I beat on them. I don't use Dispel on nightmare because it dispels my own buffs as well, which is not too bueno.

Anyway, the point is that my experience in NM mode has been that mages are trivial encounters because they are so squishy. The bosses die in just a few hits. I very rarely micromanage mage attacks. It's the rogue classes on NM that require more personal attention.

Especially because Target Nearest class: Rogue doesn't work *COUGHlukelookatthisCOUGH*.

[Joy Divison]

In Sebastian's basement, it's NOT the desire demon that casts the spells, it's the old bat.

Dispel magic Vs. any caster when you see their animation. A stupid 1st level spell like horror will shut down the old bat for 10 seconds - long enough to set up 2 CCC and kill her.

The Elf Huon is a difficult fight bc/ he has a lot of hit points and he casts quicker than dispel magic cools down. Do the best to interrupt him w/ stuns, stonefists, shield bashes, petrifies, mighty blows (preferably while he is brittle).

[Maria Caliban]

Roxlimn wrote...

Wow. I didn't know they could do that! So that's what desire demons do. Eh.

Desire demons don't do jack. They have to be the most wimpy 'elite' creatures in the game.

[SuicidalBaby]

if left alone, Disire Demons will begin spit spirit bolts capable of 1-2 shotting a character who hasn't had any constitution attribute points added.

Dispell will force them begin their rebuff script and keep them occupied for another 15 seconds or so. Which is why the abominations force you into a panic mode and not simple knockback/down, that buff hurts.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 14 avril 2011 - 06:07 .

[Running_Blind]

SuicidialBaby wrote...
Which is why the abominations force you into a panic mode and not simple knockback/down, that buff hurts.

It's because they attack with spirit damage, you won't get knocked down no matter what the force of their attacks.

[Toastedsnow]

If swirly, run like hell
If mage, blast it. That about sums up my methods of dealing with them and I've yet to die to any except Huon. That aside, Horror or Crushing Prison are a great way of locking down a mage immediately because the cast animation and its subsequent hit are both instant. Petrify has a travel time bizarrely - I've had a few mages and quite a lot of assassins actually evade the damn thing. Either way, stun them and lay in the dps big time. Nameless Graces followed up with Kickback will pretty much blow up any target. If you don't have Varric, chain lightning is a nice temp CC to get yourself a little extra dps time before that damn mage barrier goes up

[wowpwnslol]

Murrdox wrote...

I'm getting sick and tired of this.

Every enemy spellcaster I'm running into spams this idiotic red vortex of death ability.  I call it the "Red Vortex of Death" because bascially as soon as I see it, my entire party dies.  I'm playing on "Hard".

I expect "Hard" to be Hard, and I'm fine with that.  But whatever this spell is is just annoying to the point of stupid.  As soon as I see it on the battlefield, it's too late.  Whatever party members are in the middle of it are dead, no matter if they're my full health tank or my weak mage.  Because party members don't MOVE if they're in the middle of an animation, they will freely continue casting whatever spell they were in the middle of while their health merrily drains away at light-speed.

The game gives me no feedback at all, so I don't know what this spell is, what kind of damage it is, and how to protect against it.

I'm so pissed off at this freaking spell.  I had to re-load the fight against the Desire Demon in Sabastian's end quest 5-6 times becuase the demon just kept getting the spell off, no matter how many times I threw stunning spells her way.  She'd invariably catch 1-2 party members in the AOE, and then it's all over.

AFTER finally finishing that fight I do a silly side quest to kill a few Elven Mages and they ALL spam it.  After 6 MORE times reloading my game I decided that this wasn't worth my time, turned the difficulty to "Casual" and muredered them.

So before I just uninstall the game over this, someone please enlighten me.  Searching the forum on this hasn't yeilded me any results.  WHAT is this stupid spell, and WHAT kind of damage does it do so I can load up on resistances to it.

The fact that it's a damage over time AOE effect that drains my party members so fast it might as well be instant-death is just beyond annoying.  I'd be LESS annoyed if I had time to run my party members out of the AOE... but like I said.  Because of animations, that is frequently impossible.

Learn to move out of it. Simple. Or switch to casual.

[Apathy1989]

nickan1022 wrote...

I'm not sure how you've managed your character's stats, but if you haven't already pumped ability points into your characters' constitution scores, you're going to struggle. I'm willing to bet that overlooking this stat is a common cause of the "1-shot" syndrome that people experience. I play on nightmare, and most members of my party have 35-60 constitution by the end of the game.

wtf. Thats an excessive amount of constitution. I've seen some people living off 15 con by the end, but I live off 20 con on support. Your wasting so many points that could go into damage.

[Toastedsnow]

Apathy1989 wrote...

nickan1022 wrote...

I'm not sure how you've managed your character's stats, but if you haven't already pumped ability points into your characters' constitution scores, you're going to struggle. I'm willing to bet that overlooking this stat is a common cause of the "1-shot" syndrome that people experience. I play on nightmare, and most members of my party have 35-60 constitution by the end of the game.

wtf. Thats an excessive amount of constitution. I've seen some people living off 15 con by the end, but I live off 20 con on support. Your wasting so many points that could go into damage.

Seconded. Jesus christ, that's a lot. Mine are usually around 18 to 20 and get along fine - between Auras, mage bubbles, and tactical management, 20 is sufficient. Except for your tank obviously but that's a no-brainer

[nickan1022]

Toastedsnow wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

nickan1022 wrote...

I'm not sure how you've managed your character's stats, but if you haven't already pumped ability points into your characters' constitution scores, you're going to struggle. I'm willing to bet that overlooking this stat is a common cause of the "1-shot" syndrome that people experience. I play on nightmare, and most members of my party have 35-60 constitution by the end of the game.

wtf. Thats an excessive amount of constitution. I've seen some people living off 15 con by the end, but I live off 20 con on support. Your wasting so many points that could go into damage.

Seconded. Jesus christ, that's a lot. Mine are usually around 18 to 20 and get along fine - between Auras, mage bubbles, and tactical management, 20 is sufficient. Except for your tank obviously but that's a no-brainer

Merrill and my warrior Hawke are the ones with the high end con scores.  But Varric and Anders typically have 35ish con by the end.  If not, they have at least 250hps.

Playing on nightmare, I need survivability more than a small increase in attack that comes from the "main" stat.  Consider also that the Heroic Aura also boosts attack.  I typically get to 100% atk values with that buff, and an item or two with +atk.  By the end, with the armor upgrades, they don't even need those items.

My stat assignments vary depending on the character.  For example:

Merrill is a blood mage.  She only needs enough Magic to equip whatever weapon you want to give her (ideally a blood mage staff) and the rest goes into con.  This is because by the time she has 4 accessories with blood mage bonuses, plus a blood mage staff and her friendship bonus, she's converting 1 con into 40 mana.  By the end of the game, about half of her health (my threshold to turn off Blood of the First and heal her in the tactics) equates to about 1600 mana.  In other words, endless mana assuming she doesn't take heavy damage.  And even if she does, she can shrug it off.

Varric needs enough cunning to deal with chests and traps.  He also needs con for survivability and willpower for specials.  He doesn't need dexterity, ever.  His weapon has no stat requirements.  Therefore, he gets enough cunning to deal with the chests and traps for the Act I'm playing, and the rest gets balanced between con and willpower.

Anders needs enough magic to equip a decent weapon (no more than about 38 by the end), and the rest goes into con and willpower.  Typically his staves have plenty of +mana, so I tend to favor con in his stats.

Now, because my chars have lots of con, heals are more efficient because most of them are % based.  This means that they survive long enough for tactics to kick in and cooldowns to recycle while they have a random attacker beating on them.  They never get one-shot at full health, and they can sustain attacks from one or two normals if needed while my warrior picks them up or deals with another problem on the battlefield.

I play on NM, and don't need to invest in Anders' revive ability, because my chars almost never die.  I put out a *ton* of damage with CCCs and a respectable amount with normal attacks.  Towards the latter part of the game, normal enemies die almost immediately and elites get the full brunt of my spells and skills and die pretty fast as well.  You could make an argument that things could die even faster, but why sacrifice survivability?  I got my Indomitable achievement in Act II on nightmare, so I guess it's working just fine.  I never need to buy potions, but I carry a few just in case I stumble across a high dragon (tongue in cheek).

Also, remember, Act III introduces a +6/7 rune that all my characters
get.  That's a big help in getting me to the con levels I mentioned.
I could build a bunch of glass cannons, but the reload times make me sad.

Modifié par nickan1022, 15 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[nickan1022]

double post fail.

Modifié par nickan1022, 15 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[mr_afk]

nickan1022 wrote...

Merrill and my warrior Hawke are the ones with the high end con scores.  But Varric and Anders typically have 35ish con by the end.  If not, they have at least 250hps.

Playing on nightmare, I need survivability more than a small increase in attack that comes from the "main" stat.  Consider also that the Heroic Aura also boosts attack.  I typically get to 100% atk values with that buff, and an item or two with +atk.  By the end, with the armor upgrades, they don't even need those items.  

Wouldn't your fights take forever?! haha makes me wince to think about it. How do you kill assassins fast enough?
Or do you have enough constitution to just shrug off their sneaky-stabs?

I like big numbers too much to ever consider such a build but i'm wondering how effective it really is - because the only plausible way you could need such a massive blood bank for merrill is if your fights dragged on forever. If you kill everything really fast you don't need as much health/mana because everything dies before it can injure you.
Your build seems to aim at outlasting the enemies, wearing them down until they give up and die from boredom  haha
i have the exact opposite approach to you, I run with a party of glass cannons (and maybe one tank). Everything either dies really fast (and I feel awesome) or everyone dies real fast (and I feel sad).

[nickan1022]

mr_afk wrote...

nickan1022 wrote...

Merrill and my warrior Hawke are the ones with the high end con scores.  But Varric and Anders typically have 35ish con by the end.  If not, they have at least 250hps.

Playing on nightmare, I need survivability more than a small increase in attack that comes from the "main" stat.  Consider also that the Heroic Aura also boosts attack.  I typically get to 100% atk values with that buff, and an item or two with +atk.  By the end, with the armor upgrades, they don't even need those items.  

Wouldn't your fights take forever?! haha makes me wince to think about it. How do you kill assassins fast enough?
Or do you have enough constitution to just shrug off their sneaky-stabs?

I like big numbers too much to ever consider such a build but i'm wondering how effective it really is - because the only plausible way you could need such a massive blood bank for merrill is if your fights dragged on forever. If you kill everything really fast you don't need as much health/mana because everything dies before it can injure you.
Your build seems to aim at outlasting the enemies, wearing them down until they give up and die from boredom  haha
i have the exact opposite approach to you, I run with a party of glass cannons (and maybe one tank). Everything either dies really fast (and I feel awesome) or everyone dies real fast (and I feel sad).

Again, think third Act.  My chars don't have that much con in Act 1.

So, no, the battles are typically lightning fast for me.  First, my Hawke is a vanguard/reaver/templar.  His opening combo staggers every normal enemy within reach of his sword within a second or two of the battle.  Typically Merrill follows up with a Chain Lightning that hits multiple targets for 2-3k each.

For single point targets, Hawke's Mighty Blow delivers 4-5k hits, and with Bloom + Haste + Speed Rune +  the Reaver haste talent + upgraded cleave (forget the name), he's delivering 2-300 *normal* attacks in an arc in front of him as fast as I can mash the button (faster now with autoattack).  Stuff dies *really* fast on NM in Act III.  In earlier acts, battles get progressively faster over time as the talents start to trickle in with levels.  The truth is, the attack stats don't make that much difference.

You're right about Merrill, she never runs out of health-mana if she's straight up casting.  She regens health faster than she can burn it.   However, she needs to be able to take some damage and still cast, which she does remarkably well.

Essentially, I don't have glass cannons.  I have iron cannons that do approximately the same damage but don't die.

[mr_afk]

nickan1022 wrote...
Again, think third Act.  My chars don't have that much con in Act 1.

So, no, the battles are typically lightning fast for me.  First, my Hawke is a vanguard/reaver/templar.  His opening combo staggers every normal enemy within reach of his sword within a second or two of the battle.  Typically Merrill follows up with a Chain Lightning that hits multiple targets for 2-3k each.

For single point targets, Hawke's Mighty Blow delivers 4-5k hits, and with Bloom + Haste + Speed Rune +  the Reaver haste talent + upgraded cleave (forget the name), he's delivering 2-300 *normal* attacks in an arc in front of him as fast as I can mash the button (faster now with autoattack).  Stuff dies *really* fast on NM in Act III.  In earlier acts, battles get progressively faster over time as the talents start to trickle in with levels.  The truth is, the attack stats don't make that much difference.

You're right about Merrill, she never runs out of health-mana if she's straight up casting.  She regens health faster than she can burn it.   However, she needs to be able to take some damage and still cast, which she does remarkably well.

Essentially, I don't have glass cannons.  I have iron cannons that do approximately the same damage but don't die.

Ah fair enough. I still don't understand how merrill with only enough magic to equip a staff and especially a varric without any dex could possibly have that much base damage (e.g. autoattacks) compared to a less...healthy build.
Strength, Magic and Dex all go towards increasing the damage (admittedly by not that much) but that builds up....

I suppose you must just be really good at CCCs. That and the way a warrior can achieve ridiculous attack speeds haha. I don't think that such a setup would be quite as effective for a non-warrior hawke party but that's just me. Well if it works for you that's what matters I guess. 

[nickan1022]

mr_afk wrote...
Ah fair enough. I still don't understand how merrill with only enough magic to equip a staff and especially a varric without any dex could possibly have that much base damage (e.g. autoattacks) compared to a less...healthy build.
Strength, Magic and Dex all go towards increasing the damage (admittedly by not that much) but that builds up....

I suppose you must just be really good at CCCs. That and the way a warrior can achieve ridiculous attack speeds haha. I don't think that such a setup would be quite as effective for a non-warrior hawke party but that's just me. Well if it works for you that's what matters I guess. 

I guess that I look at it as more health = more options, as well.  In the cases where I need to drop a party member for someone's personal quest, I have no problem benching Anders.  Yeah, I have to suck down a couple of potions, but that's managable.  The party becomes more "glass cannon-y" for those situations, but I can afford it because they have the con to deal with it.

This game has a number of encounters designed to punish players who neglect con scores, like the situation described by the OP.  The problem that created so much frustration for him simply didn't exist for me.  I rolled right over this fight.

There are fights that give me pause.  The Ulric fight is hard, because the fighting area is so cramped that my party members end up being too close to the 2h sword specials.  That, and the 2 templar hunters make it a tough fight for me.  The Brekkar fight is hard, because 3 elite+ assassins at the same time is just nasty.  I have to line up all my stealth-breaking and or stunlocking tricks to deal with it.  But those fights aren't hard necessarily because of my build choices, they're just genuinely hard.

I will say that if I didn't use CCCs and my Hawke wasn't such a beast, and my team didn't have skills that synergized, then yes, I might need to rely on slightly increased auto-attacks and deal with micromanaging health a bit more. But that doesn't seem as fun.

Modifié par nickan1022, 15 avril 2011 - 06:34 .

[mr_afk]

nickan1022 wrote...

This game has a number of encounters designed to punish players who neglect con scores, like the situation described by the OP.  The problem that created so much frustration for him simply didn't exist for me.  I rolled right over this fight.

Pretty sure that "see enemy mage, cast horror, cast hex of torment, get whole party to jump on it" pretty much solves any problems with enemy blood mages. With two or three CC spells you can get dangerous enemies (mages/assassins) exposed long enough to kill really fast (as everyone deals heaps of damage ahaha )

nickan1022 wrote...
I will say that if I didn't use CCCs and my Hawke wasn't such a beast, and my team didn't have skills that synergized, then yes, I might need to rely on slightly increased auto-attacks and deal with micromanaging health a bit more. But that doesn't seem as fun.

Yeah, I suppose there is a degree of un-funness associated with watching your fragile characters get destroyed. But on the other hand, if you set things up right you can get massive numbers which gives the best feeling really. Even if it takes heaps of setting up (hex of torment, sebastians thingy, CCC) it's great fun to deal massive loads of damage - and it isn't quite the same when at the back of your mind you know it could have been bigger.....
But maybe that's just me. haha

Modifié par mr_afk, 15 avril 2011 - 06:51 .

[RPJer001]

For the OP, as has been mentioned, focus fire on the Lady H and kill her before she casts the red mist spell. This is act 2 so you should have an arsenal of abilities to choose from. ex. Stonefist, Assassinate (especially from archer Hawke), Assault/Shield Bash (follow up with chain lightning if enemy staggered), Varric's knockback arrow, Mighty Blow and others will knock Lady H down and cause enough accumulated damage to kill her quickly. I can usually kill her before she activates a single ability. With archer rogue's assassinate, she dies within 3 seconds (on Nightmare) so it is not hard...however, if I fail to take her out and she manages to teleport to the back side of the room, I there is a good chance I get wiped out if I am not camping a party member there.

As for the blood mage elf, I never thought he was that hard. Use the same tactics as above and he dies quickly.

As mentioned for the assassins. I take all party member's to at least 15 con. This seems to be enough that an assassin will not one shot a fully healed squishy (will drastically hurt but not kill).

Combustion Grenades stun every enemy in the game that is not immune to stuns (ex the High Dragon is immune but regular dragons are not). The stun is like 10 seconds and can be applied repeatedly, once from each party member.

Some other advice...the only really dangerous enemies are the elite assassins and mages (including their demon counterparts). This means building a party to maximize burst damage is a very effective strategy for mastering the game. Do not ignore debuffs like Sebastian's Wounding Arrow (very good skill), Mark of Death, Hex of Torment, Band, etc applied before a big damage abilty like assassinate, assault, twin fangs or mighty blow.

[RPJer001]

One more comment...save often, especially if you think a fight is coming. My first time through the game, I nearly always got caught by surprise with the red mist of death. Second time, I knew who to look for.

[tonnactus]

Roxlimn wrote...

Shouldn't be a problem. A Brittle-Shattering Blow combo should kill a mage on Hard just as well as a Brittle-Archer's Lance combo. Actually, a Stagger-CR combo ought to work as well. Mages don't have the best HP pool.

Depends on the mages.Huon have a lot of health.As do the "crazy loner".

Modifié par tonnactus, 15 avril 2011 - 11:17 .

[tonnactus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Desire demons don't do jack. They have to be the most wimpy 'elite' creatures in the game.

Disappointing compared with origins ,with horror,cone of cold and winters blast.I agree.

[Urazz]

Murrdox wrote...

I'm getting sick and tired of this.

Every enemy spellcaster I'm running into spams this idiotic red vortex of death ability.  I call it the "Red Vortex of Death" because bascially as soon as I see it, my entire party dies.  I'm playing on "Hard".

I expect "Hard" to be Hard, and I'm fine with that.  But whatever this spell is is just annoying to the point of stupid.  As soon as I see it on the battlefield, it's too late.  Whatever party members are in the middle of it are dead, no matter if they're my full health tank or my weak mage.  Because party members don't MOVE if they're in the middle of an animation, they will freely continue casting whatever spell they were in the middle of while their health merrily drains away at light-speed.

The game gives me no feedback at all, so I don't know what this spell is, what kind of damage it is, and how to protect against it.

I'm so pissed off at this freaking spell.  I had to re-load the fight against the Desire Demon in Sabastian's end quest 5-6 times becuase the demon just kept getting the spell off, no matter how many times I threw stunning spells her way.  She'd invariably catch 1-2 party members in the AOE, and then it's all over.

AFTER finally finishing that fight I do a silly side quest to kill a few Elven Mages and they ALL spam it.  After 6 MORE times reloading my game I decided that this wasn't worth my time, turned the difficulty to "Casual" and muredered them.

So before I just uninstall the game over this, someone please enlighten me.  Searching the forum on this hasn't yeilded me any results.  WHAT is this stupid spell, and WHAT kind of damage does it do so I can load up on resistances to it.

The fact that it's a damage over time AOE effect that drains my party members so fast it might as well be instant-death is just beyond annoying.  I'd be LESS annoyed if I had time to run my party members out of the AOE... but like I said.  Because of animations, that is frequently impossible.

It depends on the constitution your party members have and your target priorities and what CC you got.  I found getting at least a moderate amount of stamina is more than enough to ensure your characters can survive some of the nastier blood mage abilities.

Truthfully, when in Act 3, you should have at least 25 to 30 constitution on your more squishy party members.

[mancadu]

Modifié par mancadu, 16 avril 2011 - 05:42 .

[Roxlimn]

tonnactus wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...
Shouldn't be a problem. A Brittle-Shattering Blow combo should kill a mage on Hard just as well as a Brittle-Archer's Lance combo. Actually, a Stagger-CR combo ought to work as well. Mages don't have the best HP pool.

Depends on the mages.Huon have a lot of health.As do the "crazy loner".

I didn't actually have a lot of problems with Huon.  The first time through, I didn't even know he could cast this spell, since he was dead before he could do anything.

[Knal1991]

Huon is the most powerfull one I have encountered though, if you leave your chars be he will drain your complete party health...