42 réponses à ce sujet

[Mylene]

Because this game is made by human

[ItsFreakinJesus]

proby wrote...

@marshalleck yeah never thought of that
and why do they need humans why not turians or asari or hell vorcha no one wants them anyway and they breed so fast why humans

Humans are the most genetically viable out of all of the races shown thus far, aside from the Salarians and the Krogan.  But Salarian lifespans are too short and the Krogan were messed up by the genophage.  And the Quarians are messed up due to their immune systems being all but useless now.

Humans are in the best condition out of all of the species that we know of for Reaper building.  Harbinger makes comments about each squad member race during the final battle of ME2 and says as much.

[JKoopman]

Don't even try to understand how humans are apparently more genetically diverse than all the other races in the galaxy. I don't think even the writers themselves know, seeing as their own internal explanations contradict each other on a fairly regular basis throughout the game.

Listening to Mordin try to explain it to Shepard during his loyalty mission is like watching a cat chase it's own tail; it just keeps going around and around and there doesn't seem to be much thought or point to it.

Modifié par JKoopman, 14 avril 2011 - 09:17 .

[Monochrome Wench]

marshalleck wrote...

proby wrote...
I wouldn't be surprised if they could just jump to any relay they wanted from any where

I would, because if they had that capability then why did ME1 occur at all? They'd just jump straight to the Citadel from dark space, no dicking around with signaling the keepers and whatnot. 

My theory about this is the Citadel is a special relay that can pull the Reapers in from Dark Space and there is no relay in dark space. This is in contrast to the 'push' to another relay that standard relays do.

[FDrage]

AlanC9 wrote...

proby wrote...

@marshalleck yeah never thought of that
and why do they need humans why not turians or asari or hell vorcha no one wants them anyway and they breed so fast why humans

Humans are mentioned to be genetically different from other current races at several points in ME2, notably in Mordin's missions. Also, not just any intelligent species will do for making Reapers, according to EDI. Someone mentioned this upthread already.

It might be that some other species could be used, but would make inferior Reapers.

Considerin the Colectors "special requests" for species etc. in exchange for technology (something that was kind of "common" knowledge before and during the Events of ME2, which where assumed/rumoured for genetical experiements. This makes, to me, more sense in the present context of ME2 as they where testing the present species for "compatebility" with the reapers.

It seems that these "experiments" have paid of and identified the human race as the best possible specieman for the reapers needs.

Modifié par FDrage, 14 avril 2011 - 10:10 .

[fchopin]

I think they attack Earth first because they find out Shepard is on Earth and would love to eliminate him or her.

[R3c0nn4155nc3]

Wait are they still attacking humans to make them into reapers and bring them closer to 'Perfection'? Or are they now just pissed and trying to murder every human they can see cos Shepard killed 1.5 of them?
I can totally see Harbinger appearing in the middle of the trial going, We will be prepare Humanity for their 'Ascension', and be their 'Genetic Destiny' while the turian councilor is like, 'Making false VIs now Shepard?' and everyone facepalming.

[Galenwolf]

Don't forget Humanity is called the sleeping giant by the galactic community. We are one of the few races to blow up a reaper.

Sovereign had most likely been keeping a close watch on every race and saw what we did to the Turians when we had barely started to explore the galaxy. Most likely the reapers do not want to give humanity any time to ramp up their military.

With a vastly enlarged human military coupled with the Turians the reapers might end facing something that could give them a run for their money.

[Daryst]

FDrage wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

proby wrote...

@marshalleck yeah never thought of that
and why do they need humans why not turians or asari or hell vorcha no one wants them anyway and they breed so fast why humans

Humans are mentioned to be genetically different from other current races at several points in ME2, notably in Mordin's missions. Also, not just any intelligent species will do for making Reapers, according to EDI. Someone mentioned this upthread already.

It might be that some other species could be used, but would make inferior Reapers.

Considerin the Colectors "special requests" for species etc. in exchange for technology (something that was kind of "common" knowledge before and during the Events of ME2, which where assumed/rumoured for genetical experiements. This makes, to me, more sense in the present context of ME2 as they where testing the present species for "compatebility" with the reapers.

It seems that these "experiments" have paid of and identified the human race as the best possible specieman for the reapers needs.

This seems to make the best sence out of most of the theories. And it also explains the nature of the Collectors and their role within the ME universe.

Sure there are plotholes and things contradict each other, but have some faith in the writers. They aren't so dumb as some of these forumers portrait them to be.

[cedgedc]

Unfortunately, few of those explanations : I.E. Humans are the biggest threat- make any sense. This is due in no small part to a few plot holes (like.. what about the other races that were in existence when the protheans were around? They were the only ones but now there are many?)

The reapers are all knowing, all powerful. They're calculating and patient. There is no rush to what they do. If they found shepard and humanity to be a threat, the logical solution is: Wait 50 years. Shepard will be dead. People already doubt the reaper threat 2 years later, so after 50 no one would believe any remaining fanatics crying out 'The End is Nie!'

Clearly that doesn't fit into a trilogy, but it's just a logic gap. Million year old, calculating machines aren't going to totally change their plan of attack and risk a cycle they've had going on for who knows how long- for the sake of getting revenge on shepard, or humanity on the whole.

Furthermore, attacking one planet like this allows for the entire rest of the universe to go:

'Hey look at that, the reapers -are- real. Good thing they didn't attack our central inteligence place first so we have plenty of time to group up and lay the smack down, right?!'

The whole point is.. they built the citadel for being the big shiny ball that makes all the races go.. 'Oooo!' for the sole purpose of luring them there, luring governments and so forth- and then wiping those out with a shock and awe assault.

If the reapers don't wipe out all life, then the jig is up. They can't go away for a few thousand years after repurposing humanity and come back expecting eveyone else to be clueless. That's only like a few generations of asari- and they'll remember quite well that an entire race was basically kidnapped.

The only explanation that truly makes sense is if someone finally breaks through what the deal is with the keepers, realises that the citadel is indeed a trap, and seals it off from attack/ disables the mass relay at it's center. This would force reapers into the possition of waging war, rather than pulling off a sneak attack, snatch and grab operation.


PS: If they wanted to just kill humanity, they'd probably just destroy the planet from space. Even in present day, we could nuke ourselves to death, ensuring humanity was effectively wiped out. Ground forces imply they plan to break our defenses and start indoctrinating.

Modifié par cedgedc, 14 avril 2011 - 02:16 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

cedgedc wrote...

Unfortunately, few of those explanations : I.E. Humans are the biggest threat- make any sense. This is due in no small part to a few plot holes (like.. what about the other races that were in existence when the protheans were around? They were the only ones but now there are many?)

The reapers are all knowing, all powerful. They're calculating and patient. There is no rush to what they do. If they found shepard and humanity to be a threat, the logical solution is: Wait 50 years. Shepard will be dead. People already doubt the reaper threat 2 years later, so after 50 no one would believe any remaining fanatics crying out 'The End is Nie!'

Clearly that doesn't fit into a trilogy, but it's just a logic gap. Million year old, calculating machines aren't going to totally change their plan of attack and risk a cycle they've had going on for who knows how long- for the sake of getting revenge on shepard, or humanity on the whole.

Furthermore, attacking one planet like this allows for the entire rest of the universe to go:

'Hey look at that, the reapers -are- real. Good thing they didn't attack our central inteligence place first so we have plenty of time to group up and lay the smack down, right?!'

The whole point is.. they built the citadel for being the big shiny ball that makes all the races go.. 'Oooo!' for the sole purpose of luring them there, luring governments and so forth- and then wiping those out with a shock and awe assault.

If the reapers don't wipe out all life, then the jig is up. They can't go away for a few thousand years after repurposing humanity and come back expecting eveyone else to be clueless. That's only like a few generations of asari- and they'll remember quite well that an entire race was basically kidnapped.

The only explanation that truly makes sense is if someone finally breaks through what the deal is with the keepers, realises that the citadel is indeed a trap, and seals it off from attack/ disables the mass relay at it's center. This would force reapers into the possition of waging war, rather than pulling off a sneak attack, snatch and grab operation.


PS: If they wanted to just kill humanity, they'd probably just destroy the planet from space. Even in present day, we could nuke ourselves to death, ensuring humanity was effectively wiped out. Ground forces imply they plan to break our defenses and start indoctrinating.

Humans live to be as old as 150 in the ME universe, 50 years wouldn't mean much.  Besides, there's always the possibility that the Reapers don't have 50 years, hence the mad dash toward the galaxy.  Their harvesting was already postponed 2000 years thanks to the uplifting of the Krogan, so maybe whatever it is they need, they're running low on and need things done in a hurry to ensure their own survival. 

[KingNothing125]

cedgedc wrote...

The only explanation that truly makes sense is if someone finally breaks through what the deal is with the keepers, realises that the citadel is indeed a trap, and seals it off from attack/ disables the mass relay at it's center. This would force reapers into the possition of waging war, rather than pulling off a sneak attack, snatch and grab operation.

That is what happened. You kill Saren/get Saren to commit suicide, then you disable/alter the code for the Citadel's mass relay. That's why the Reapers are stuck in dark space and need to walk to the Milky Way instead of taking the Express shuttle.

[Urdnot Orrad]

cedgedc wrote...

Unfortunately, few of those explanations : I.E. Humans are the biggest threat- make any sense. This is due in no small part to a few plot holes (like.. what about the other races that were in existence when the protheans were around? They were the only ones but now there are many?)

The reapers are all knowing, all powerful. They're calculating and patient. There is no rush to what they do. If they found shepard and humanity to be a threat, the logical solution is: Wait 50 years. Shepard will be dead. People already doubt the reaper threat 2 years later, so after 50 no one would believe any remaining fanatics crying out 'The End is Nie!'

Clearly that doesn't fit into a trilogy, but it's just a logic gap. Million year old, calculating machines aren't going to totally change their plan of attack and risk a cycle they've had going on for who knows how long- for the sake of getting revenge on shepard, or humanity on the whole.

Furthermore, attacking one planet like this allows for the entire rest of the universe to go:

'Hey look at that, the reapers -are- real. Good thing they didn't attack our central inteligence place first so we have plenty of time to group up and lay the smack down, right?!'

The whole point is.. they built the citadel for being the big shiny ball that makes all the races go.. 'Oooo!' for the sole purpose of luring them there, luring governments and so forth- and then wiping those out with a shock and awe assault.

If the reapers don't wipe out all life, then the jig is up. They can't go away for a few thousand years after repurposing humanity and come back expecting eveyone else to be clueless. That's only like a few generations of asari- and they'll remember quite well that an entire race was basically kidnapped.

The only explanation that truly makes sense is if someone finally breaks through what the deal is with the keepers, realises that the citadel is indeed a trap, and seals it off from attack/ disables the mass relay at it's center. This would force reapers into the possition of waging war, rather than pulling off a sneak attack, snatch and grab operation.


PS: If they wanted to just kill humanity, they'd probably just destroy the planet from space. Even in present day, we could nuke ourselves to death, ensuring humanity was effectively wiped out. Ground forces imply they plan to break our defenses and start indoctrinating.

Apparently, the Reapers do this every 50,000 years exactly. They can't "wait fifty years" because that would break their cycle in itself. And also, while Earth's populace could be destroyed, that wouldn't be the end of humanity, which is spread throughout the Galaxy... or did you not pay attention to ME1 or 2?

For the Protheans, they were not the only species in existence, true... because hanar and humans were around, but very early in their civilizations. The Protheans were the only species that was spacefaring when they were around, and that is why they were wiped out.

[dleo95]

proby wrote...

 this is just a general discussion about ME3 and why the reapers decided that humanity is such a threat, why would they attack earth first, and why would they make a human reaper, above all why would they not try and do the same as they did with the protheans. take the citadel, sever communication, systematically wipe out everything.
finally might this explain why you have to play as a human in mass effect

personally i think there is something either about humans or on earth that the reapers see as a threat

any other idea's?

All explained in the game....

1. its explains that the protheans got the worst of it because they tried to fight back, and is the same case for the humans.

2. it is explained they made the human reaper because when they make a reaper they make it in the form of the species they made it with (in this case humans)

3. take the citadel they tried to do that but sheperd stopped soveriegn from letting the reapers use the citdel because it is a mass relay and it could of easily be taken if all the repears showed up right thee,
it is also explained this is there most important step because they attack the citadel first because it cripples the government and isolates the planets

[Gabey5]

a human defeated them.. so where do da humanz lives? derp tc

[didymos1120]

It's nothing to do with us being the biggest "threat". We're just plain NOT. We're not the most numerous. We're not the biggest militarily or economically. We're not a lot of other superlatives.

Yeah, one particular human has been a real pain in the ass, and this likely played a large role in the rest of humanity becoming Reaper "candidates", but said human also had a lot of non-human help along the way, and especially from the Protheans (Beacon Vision, Cipher, Vigil, and the Conduit, without any of which Shep would have been useless).

No, what we are is good Reaper material.

That's really it: this time around, we turned out be the resource they've set the whole cycle up to exploit. They're simply securing that resource first, because acquiring it is the entire point. As far as they're concerned, wiping out the rest of galactic civilization (and its attendant species) is basically just standard prep work for the next iteration.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 avril 2011 - 11:59 .

[Rurik_Niall]

I don't think a lone Turian, Quarian, Geth, Salarian, Drell, Krogan, and Uber Krogan constitutes a lots of non-human help, if the combined fleets of each of their races were mobalised maybe, but as it stands not so much. Shepard alone is in charge of the Normandies, he's the one who's led every successful counterattack against the Reapers, he alone gave the order to blow Sovereign to hell, that is sufficient to earn humanity the number one spot on the list of threats.

[philcd89]

So this is my take on the Reaper's motives:

Cycle of extinction - It can be argued that the point of any species' existence is to reproduce. its been speculated by EDI and others that reapers are a bio-synthetic organism...the union of organic life and synthetic machines - i agree with this. They cannot, however, grow their own organic life. They must harvest the organic life from the galaxy to create more of themselves. Therefore, organic life in the galaxy is their crop. Part of their makeup is their harvested organic life, and part of their makeup is the synthetic metals/plastics/whatever else they make themselves of.

Interest in Humans - They only want the best organic stuff though, so they need to wait 50,000 years for it to evolve into a good enough form to use. In this time, these organisms evolve enough to be capable of spaceflight, and develop along the paths that they desire. So they always harvest spacefaring life, while leaving life that isn't spacefaring yet (such as humans and hanar at the time the wiped out the protheans) intact, leaving the rest to continue developing into useable forms for their reproduction. Harbinger talks about how the reapers view humans as the best organism for their use, PROVIDED the reapers can get rid of human's emotion and passion. “Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated.” (see harbinger battle quotes in the mass effect wikia).

Why can’t they wait? - They also cannot wait longer than 50,000 years, because then species will advance fast enough to develop technology that rivals their own. The protheans, when they were invaded, were on the verge of figuring out the relay technology. In the Mass Effect universe, I believe that the galactic community is on the cusp of becoming advanced enough to pose a serious threat to the reapers. That’s why they have to come now. Even another 100-200 years would give life a long time to develop new tech – especially at the rate they’re going.

Interest in Shep - I believe their only interest in Shepard is because he has defeated them 1.5 times through sheer heart, sheer will. The reapers don't understand emotion or human heart (just take shep's convo with sovereign on virmire) so they think that shep must be genetically superior somehow. Thats why they want to study him. So they send the collectors after him and try to get his body for study. That’s the only reason they’re interested in Shep. They don’t actually view him as a legit threat.

Why reapers attack earth? – It’s not because humans are seen as the biggest threat. We just happen to be first in line. When Shep stalled the reaper invasion the first time by killing sovereign, I think the reapers in dark space knew about it. So they had to get to the milky way the hard way. Even flying at several times the speed of light, it took them 2+ years to get from dark space to the alpha relay. I don’t believe dark space is THAT far away from the milky way – just far enough that they won’t be detected accidentally when they are in hibernation. The alpha relay was their plan B, if they can’t get to the citadel through the dark space relay. Once the alpha relay was destroyed, as that brilliant map pointed out, the next closest relay is in the Sol system. Hence their attack on earth. But why they don’t bust straight through the Charon relay to the citadel rather than wiping earth out first, is a puzzle that I assume will be explained in ME3.

Why attack the citadel first again? – This is still the most efficient way to wipe out organic life and harvest whatever forms of life are best to make new reapers.

That’s my take. I think it fits with what we know from the game. Thoughts?