89 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

We probably all know that the Reapers are supposed to be fixating on Earth because it will affect us gamers more than say, Planet X37 in the Hades Gamma cluster (too lazy to give the name of a "real" planet). But I am trying to figure out what they are planning from an in-game perspective. 

One very likely possibility is to harvest the 11 billion humans on Earth. That's all fine and dandy. But it would really make little sense if that's all that they are doing.

Yea, Bioware usually sucks at warfare and strategies, but I'd be surprised if they don't make the Reapers preempt against all races capable of offering resistance. Especially the turians. Sovereign claims that their numbers are legion. A hyperbole, but the wave of Reapers in the ME2 end cuscene does show that they are very numerous. Keep in mind that Sovereign and a few geth ships were able to wipe out Citadel fleet, one of the strongest fleets out there.   

It seems to me that the Reapers have enough numbers to at least strike at Humans and Turians at the same time (I think they can do more than that). They can also knock out the citadel.

Yes the Reapers are vulnerable and not invincible and they may be rivalled by an alliance. But that's all the more reason to preempt against the key players. Humanity is one, but there is also the Turians at the very least. They ought to use the element of surprise to knock both of them, if not more, out. They seemingly manage to strike at Earth without anyone noticing, why can't they do the same to other major planets?

Since the theme is apparently to gather allies, I doubt that the Reapers will be attacking the Turians, though it is possible. Maybe the turians are not even supposed to be allies.  But I don't know, it's sounding  more and more to me that the Reapers attack Earth and will just bunker in and wait for Shepard to gather allies and counter-attack. If they do that, it would be kind of idiotic.   The thread is more about speculation and possible future info than actual criticism (since we know little) but I can't help but feel that Bioware will drop the ball on this. Aka make the Reapers completely incompetent.

So, what do you think the reapers will be doing in ME3? Will they just take Earth and bunker in? Will they attempt to preempt and knock out other important players? Do they have an actual plan, or have they become your typical faceless, mindless tidal wave of darkness kind of enemy? And I wonder if the Batarians / Terminus system will play a part against the reapers.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[didymos1120]

Hudson said this in the GI article about the beginning of ME3: "They've taken the Earth and they're starting to take other parts of the galaxy. It is about a full-blown galactic war in Mass Effect 3."

[KnightofPhoenix]

didymos1120 wrote...

Hudson said this in the GI article about the beginning of ME3: "They've taken the Earth and they're starting to take other parts of the galaxy. It is about a full-blown galactic war in Mass Effect 3."

Oh cool, that's good news, somewhat.

Still, it would have been better to attack Earth and other parts of the galaxy simultaneously to maximize their inittial advantage of taking the others by surprise. I fear that Shepard gaining allies will have him defeat each Reaper invasion force, which would be kind of meh.

Or maybe I expect too much of the Reapers.

BTW I just remembered. One planet's description in ME1 talked about a living machine ship called the Leviathan being discovered by the Batarians, whuich then disapeared. Possible Reaper  to indoctrinate the Batarians?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 avril 2011 - 05:18 .

[Malanek]

I don't think they will have any great strategy. It seems like it will be a case of starting at the first system and then slowly spreading out, systematically reaping each appropriate planet they come accross. They might try and work with the Batarians or else simply mass indoctrinate weaker species if they can do that, and try and pick off the genuine threats one by one based on the perceived level of threat.

Edit:They probably see it as a long attritional campaign. Much longer than they would have liked.

Modifié par Malanek999, 14 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't think they will have any great strategy. It seems like it will be a case of starting at the first system and then slowly spreading out, systematically reaping each appropriate planet they come accross.

So the slow unthinking tidal wave of doom cliche. Sigh.

I expect more from the force that displayed thinking and strategy in their "Plan A".

[Malanek]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't think they will have any great strategy. It seems like it will be a case of starting at the first system and then slowly spreading out, systematically reaping each appropriate planet they come accross.

So the slow unthinking tidal wave of doom cliche. Sigh.

I expect more from the force that displayed thinking and strategy in their "Plan A".

It's not a stupid strategy. From a military point of view it is better to keep your forces in position so they can support each other. If they send a couple of reapers off to each system, the council led fleets can then mass and destroy them system by system while they are isolated.

Modifié par Malanek999, 14 avril 2011 - 05:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Malanek999 wrote...
It's not a stupid strategy. From a military point of view it is better to keep your forces in position so they can support each other. If they send a couple of reapers off to each system, the council led fleets can then mass and destroy
them system by system.

Not if the Reapers, who can seemingly pop out of nowhere right on top of Earth undetected, attack every major military installation out there (they would be idiots if they didn't get Arcturus station for example). And they seem to have the numbers to pull it off.

They don't have to occupy anything initially. It would be similar to their Plan A, aka knock out the galatic government, only this time knock out the local governments, at least of the militarily strong races like Turians and Humans. This could be done in a series of well calculated surgical strikes (with almost complete element of surprise), and after the damage is done, they can withdraw, or keep pressing. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 avril 2011 - 05:30 .

[Malanek]

Obviously destroying the industrial facilities as they go should be an important part of their strategy. That's a medium to long term strategy though. And gaining control of the relays and choke points to limit council mobility would be important. We don't know that isn't part of their strategy. We also don't know how desperate they are for resources, having arrived from quite far away via conventional travel it is quite possible that they need to resupply.

I don't believe they can gain surprise everywhere though without isolating themselves. Warning messages will go out as soon as they first attack, and mobile fleets, which are the short term danger to them, would be impossible to attack in a coordinated manner.

[KnightofPhoenix]

They should destroy the major industrial and military targets of not just humans, but others like the Turians, right off the bat. Their version of air strikes and strategic bombing, only more scary.

They don't need to target mobile fleets first, they can target major military installations like the Arcturus station (and by implication, the 5fth fleet). And why can't they take the others by surprise? They seemingly did on Earth. Why can't they do the same thing multiple times simultaneously? Are they in such a hurry that they can't wait for a few years to plan and prepare for everything properly?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 avril 2011 - 05:43 .

[hero3440]

The Reapers are Supremely smart they are at least 5 steps ahead of shepard planing multiple outcome in advance. In arrival dlc it was the Reapers victory no matter what; even if you stop the reapers from coming it only prolong their arrival. Now their could be war between Bartarins and the Alliance, and Shepard gonna be on trial just as Reapers attack.

[didymos1120]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Still, it would have been better to attack Earth and other parts of the galaxy simultaneously to maximize their inittial advantage of taking the others by surprise.

Earth is a priority to them.  It's the "resource" the cycle exists to exploit: new Reaper material.  So yeah, they're definitely gonna grab that first, secure it and get started on the Reaperisation operations.  The rest is just "clean up" as far as they're concerned: systematically wiping out everyone else and dismantling their civilization, getting the galaxy prepped for the next crop of species to evolve and discover the relays.

And besides: it's not like there's gonna be that large of a delay once they've gotten to another relay.  They'll still be able to spread out so fast from that point that any advance warning that might get out will be pretty much useless. We're also talking about a process that takes a pretty long time from our POV.  They spent a few centuries dismantling Prothean civilization, and that was with them being able to use the Citadel trick (and there's a good chance they'll attempt to take it again, after which it's game over: they've isolated everyone and made it impossible to use relays anymore), so they don't see things the way we do timescale-wise. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

didymos1120 wrote...
Earth is a priority to them.  It's the "resource" the cycle exists to exploit: new Reaper material.  So yeah, they're definitely gonna grab that first, secure it and get started on the Reaperisation operations.

And besides: it's not like there's gonna be that large of a delay once they've gotten to another relay.  They'll still be able to spread out so fast from that point that any advance warning that might get out will be pretty much useless. We're also talking about a process that takes a pretty long time from our POV.  They spent a few centuries dismantling Prothean civilization, and that was with them being able to use the Citadel trick (and there's a good chance they'll attempt to take it again, after which it's game over: they've isolated everyone and made it impossible to use relays anymore), so they don't see things the way we do timescale-wise. 

I can understand their fixation on Earth.

I am not saying that the Reapers shoudl wipe everyone out immediately, of course it will take time. What I think they ought to do, and they seem to have the numbers for it and the ability to seemingly strike at planets without anyone noticing, is to strike at all major military and industrial targets. Human and non-human especially Turian.

After they do their damage and startle the others, if not cripple them for a very long time, then they can slowly dismantle them. In other words, they should strike at their backbone first.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 avril 2011 - 05:47 .

[woods26]

This is a little off topic but maybe at one point in the game shep will have to destroy certain relays to hinder the reapers advance. Having to sacrifice certain races etc.

[KnightofPhoenix]

woods26 wrote...

This is a little off topic but maybe at one point in the game shep will have to destroy certain relays to hinder the reapers advance. Having to sacrifice certain races etc.

I actually like the idea. Somewhat similar to what Paragon Aeducan from Origins did to stop the first blight from taking Orzammar, aka seal deep road entrances but sacrifice Dwarven thaigs.

That would be pretty cool.

[naledgeborn]

Like Malanek said it's going to be a war of attrition. We have the home field advantage and they have indoctrination and other forms of advanced technology. But they've lost their biggest advantage which was the element of surprise. They can't blitz the Milky Way anymore after the Battle of the Citadel. I don't care what the council says to Shepard. They've got every Spectre, STG agent, Asari commando ect. gathering intel on the Reapers. It'll be a tough fight with a lot of collateral damage, but I don't see the Reapers pwning like Sovereign did. We maybe overmatched but not unprepared.

[KnightofPhoenix]

They didn't necessarily lose the element of surprise if they do whatever it is that they did on Earth and strike at key planet / stations of militarily strong races.

I am not sure how they popped up right next to Earth with apparently no one noticing, but if they can do it to Earth, they might be able to do it to other planets. If they do it simultaneously, they would still have the element of surprise.

[Chewin]

Well, I think that there'd be a new kind of technology against the reapers which they wouldn't be prepared for (like they said in the first game, because all the species use the same tech, planted by the reapers, they are always able to wipe them all out without any problems).As you saw in the first game, the current weapon systems are pretty useless against a reaper. So I suppose you'll find some kind of tech that gives us a fighting chance. It would still mean you'd need thousands of ships.

Didn't BW say something about that we would travel to the Reaper's homeworld or something?

I dunno, it's sounds a bit corny, but that's my 2 cents.

[Icinix]

Short Answer : Nom Nom

Long Answer : Earth / Humanity has the lowest recruitment into military service of all the races, I think the codex puts it around less than 2%. Yet they're still a major player in the armed forces of the universe. In affect this makes humanity the sleeping giant of the ME universe (Yeah it's clichéd, but this is a cliché I don't mind).

By taking Earth out first, they're only left with forces they know the rough strength of and doesn't leave an unknown that could end up being a serious threat down the track. Reapers for all their strength are still likely to not want to throw their lives away.

Once Earth is neutralised as an immediate threat, they can leave a small force to fortify the planet and begin using the population to construct new Reapers. Foothold established and construction of new armed forces (resources?) in motion, they can begin moving to other places throughout the galaxy.

Initially I imagine with their first plan to take over the citadel foiled, and the galactic government and communication still running, they'll try a more guerrilla style of warfare. Hitting smaller fleets and poorly defended worlds in an effort to get more on the front foot and keeping other races forces engaged to prevent a united assault on recapturing their foothold (Earth). For this reason I don't think an all out Assault on the Turians would be their goal at first, rather if they can isolate the (arguably) strongest force around, leaving them without allies, they'll have a better shot at taking them out with minimal casualties.

They seem to be pretty well informed on the state of the galaxy, strength of races, diplomatic levels etc. Probably thanks to Sovereign and the Collectors (perhaps even from the relays themselves?) and they have something that no-one else has. Time and Indoctrination. They can wait and be cautious, the longer the war goes on...the greater the chance of total Reaper Victory...at least as long as they're pushing out into other territories.

As such I don't believe it will be a war that can be won with amazing new technology (although it will help) or some ancient weapon, it will be a war that is won by not being lured into their baits, by sacrificing worlds, uniting races and forcing the Reapers back to Earth where they won't be picked off as individual ships. Once there it can at least can buy a bit of time (which is going to be stupidly valuable) in a war of attrition. At that point it will come down to getting every single man, woman, asari, rachni, geth, varren, maw, insect etc around Earth and hitting them with the biggest mallet the universe has ever seen.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

didymos1120 wrote...

Hudson said this in the GI article about the beginning of ME3: "They've taken the Earth and they're starting to take other parts of the galaxy. It is about a full-blown galactic war in Mass Effect 3."

According to Arrival, which puts the Reapers' entry point near the border of Human and Batarian space, it would seem to make sense for the Reapers to hit Earth so early in their campaign. As we've seen in GI, they've already taken at least a very sizeable chunk of Batarian space by the start of ME3, so Earth was probably hit in part because it also happened to be a nearby target.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Icinix wrote...
Initially I imagine with their first plan to take over the citadel foiled, and the galactic government and communication still running, they'll try a more guerrilla style of warfare. Hitting smaller fleets and poorly defended worlds in an effort to get more on the front foot and keeping other races forces engaged to prevent a united assault on recapturing their foothold (Earth). For this reason I don't think an all out Assault on the Turians would be their goal at first, rather if they can isolate the (arguably) strongest force around, leaving them without allies, they'll have a better shot at taking them out with minimal casualties.

It does end up depending on how many Reapers are out there. But if they are as numerous as they claim, and can seemingly pop up on top of planets they want to conquer, why can't they attack Earth and key Turian targets at the same time? They could maximize the element of surprise and knock out key Turian installations that would cripple their military, even if temporarily. Thus delaying a military response by quite a bit and would probably make the Turians unethusiastic about saving Earth. 

While doing that, they could secure a foothold on Earth, like you described. They should also quickly strike at Arcturus station.

[killersinc]

I think your looking at this all wrong. The effective military move would be to have small strikes against military targets. Earth has shown they are good at overcoming odds that are stacked against them. They have also spent thousands of years watching the council races grow and they know their weaknesses. Humans are an unknown factor which is a problem for them.

Attacking earth is a diversionary tactic. Imagine this, the races rally and charge toward earth. Alright we killed that fleet but waiting in the wings the real reaper fleet pownes the planets of these races. I think 30 reapers could mount enough damage to do this and that leaves a few thousand to go in guns a blazing on the defenseless worlds.

Personally what I would have done is convert the entire terminus system to the reaper way and go surgical strike on them with their puppets. That way the galaxy is fighting a war with itself and doesn't notice the reapers parking on their doorstep.

[Icinix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Icinix wrote...
Initially I imagine with their first plan to take over the citadel foiled, and the galactic government and communication still running, they'll try a more guerrilla style of warfare. Hitting smaller fleets and poorly defended worlds in an effort to get more on the front foot and keeping other races forces engaged to prevent a united assault on recapturing their foothold (Earth). For this reason I don't think an all out Assault on the Turians would be their goal at first, rather if they can isolate the (arguably) strongest force around, leaving them without allies, they'll have a better shot at taking them out with minimal casualties.

It does end up depending on how many Reapers are out there. But if they are as numerous as they claim, and can seemingly pop up on top of planets they want to conquer, why can't they attack Earth and key Turian targets at the same time? They could maximize the element of surprise and knock out key Turian installations that would cripple their military, even if temporarily. Thus delaying a military response by quite a bit and would probably make the Turians unethusiastic about saving Earth. 

While doing that, they could secure a foothold on Earth, like you described. They should also quickly strike at Arcturus station.

Because they still wouldn't throw away Reaper lives if they can avoid it.  If every Reaper takes years to build and millions of organic lives, it would be a waste to throw it away if they didn't need to.  We also don't know if each Reaper has a particular purpose or carries some unique element that makes them valuable.
Besides, hitting an unprepared force, cut off and in dissarray is very different to hitting a force that is prepared, fortified and not cut off.  Hitting the key Turian facilities would probably mean passing through multiple relays (in Turian space) defended by the Turian fleet.  It would also leave them vulnerable and cut off on the counter from Asari, Salarian and Human forces...also maybe Geth, Quarian, Rachni forces.

I think it's safe to assume that their claims of numerical superiority are greatly exageratted, for if that were the case, they literally could just waltz in as an uber fleet and systematically wipe out planet by planet and not worry about counter attacks.

If however they have enough (but not so many) that they were able to split their forces enough to go after both Earth and Palaven (or major millitary installations), it still wouldn't make sense to taking out the strongest force first, because the other species united would still far surpass the might of the Turians. It's like showing all your cards first and would force the other races to unite seeing the might of the Turians crushed.

It's also like being in a fist fight with two guys, one big and one little. You target the big guy thinking he'll be the biggest risk and then the little guy pulls out a knife and takes you by surprise.  The Reapers don't yet (as far as we know) have the ability to recover their losses, so they'll play it safe (to a point).

[naledgeborn]

killersinc wrote...

I think your looking at this all wrong. The effective military move would be to have small strikes against military targets. Earth has shown they are good at overcoming odds that are stacked against them. They have also spent thousands of years watching the council races grow and they know their weaknesses. Humans are an unknown factor which is a problem for them. 

Attacking earth is a diversionary tactic. Imagine this, the races rally and charge toward earth. Alright we killed that fleet but waiting in the wings the real reaper fleet pownes the planets of these races. I think 30 reapers could mount enough damage to do this and that leaves a few thousand to go in guns a blazing on the defenseless worlds. 

Personally what I would have done is convert the entire terminus system to the reaper way and go surgical strike on them with their puppets. That way the galaxy is fighting a war with itself and doesn't notice the reapers parking on their doorstep.

So you're saying that taking Earth out of the equation (an unknown) and simultaneously having the allied Council races swoop in to save it is part of their plan? I like it. A secondary Reaper Armada can flank the rest of the Milky Way while the bulk of it's military is in the Sol system trying to liberate Earth. But like others said I don't think it's going to be written like that (unfortunately). The fact that the Bahak system is on the edge of the galaxy makes sense too. The Charon Relay in our system just happens to be the next closest on their march back to the Citadel.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 14 avril 2011 - 03:04 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Icinix wrote...
Besides, hitting an unprepared force, cut off and in dissarray is very different to hitting a force that is prepared, fortified and not cut off.  Hitting the key Turian facilities would probably mean passing through multiple relays (in Turian space) defended by the Turian fleet.  It would also leave them vulnerable and cut off on the counter from Asari, Salarian and Human forces...also maybe Geth, Quarian, Rachni forces.

If the Reapers can show up on Earth without anyone noticing, why can't they catch the Turians offguard as well?
Are they in such a hurry that they can't plan properly?

If however they have enough (but not so many) that they were able to split their forces enough to go after both Earth and Palaven (or major millitary installations), it still wouldn't make sense to taking out the strongest force first, because the other species united would still far surpass the might of the Turians. It's like showing all your cards first and would force the other races to unite seeing the might of the Turians crushed.

And if they don't take out the Turians first, all others would be fortified and prepared after they know what happened on Earth, if not united, even if they don't want to take over Earth. But if the Reapers knock out, or at least cripple the Turians by surprise, the blow to the others' morale cannot be underestimated.  And it would give them time to fortify their position on Earth and build reapers.

As for Reaper losses. If they manage to take the Turians by surprise, and I dont' see why not, I think their casualties can be minimized.