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[R3c0nn4155nc3]

Since when does Harbinger say that Turians are primitve, asari are weak, salarians die too easily, quarians fail too much, and tha the krogan and drell simply don't have the numbers? Is it a bad ending in ME2?

[KnightofPhoenix]

R3c0nn4155nc3 wrote...

Since when does Harbinger say that Turians are primitve, asari are weak, salarians die too easily, quarians fail too much, and tha the krogan and drell simply don't have the numbers? Is it a bad ending in ME2?

You can hear it here.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[jamesp81]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So the slow unthinking tidal wave of doom cliche. Sigh.

I expect more from the force that displayed thinking and strategy in their "Plan A".

A full "reaping" takes centuries even with Plan A.  They always were the "slow unthinking tidal wave of doom".

But with some sophistication and very long term planning.
I am worried that now, they will act like idiots.

@ Dean
Well seeing how the Reapers apparently killed 7 million humans in the first week, I don't think they are that worried about humans dying out. Unless of course the trailer narrator thought those 7 million were dead, while in reality were processed. Actually, can't the Reapers harvest dead humans anyways?



EDIT to add: The Leviathan of Dis, from ME1
"The Leviathan of Dis[/b] is the name given to a gigantic corpse that disappeared from a crater on Jartar in 2163. It is believed to be the remains of a genetically engineered starship and its age was originally placed at nearly a billion years old.

Unfortunately, there was little time to study and uncover the true nature of this mysterious find. Not long after its discovery by a batarian survey team, a batarian dreadnought visited the Dis System, after which the Leviathan mysteriously disappeared. The batarians have since strenuously denied that the Leviathan existed at all. They become even more vocal when showed documentation of the Leviathan by salarian researchers before its disappearance."

You think the Leviathan is  another reaper who will be indoctrinating Batarians?

It would be unrealistic to expect the Reapers to make no mistakes now.  Let's face it, in the millions of years they've been doing the reaper thing, they've never had to fight a REAL war.  Their strategy was "take out government and command and control, isolate everyone by shutting down mass relays".  After that, it's cleanup.

Now, they're faced with fighting an organized enemy, something they've never done before.  It would not be believable if they did everything perfectly under circumstances they have no real experience with.

[Dave666]

jamesp81 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So the slow unthinking tidal wave of doom cliche. Sigh.

I expect more from the force that displayed thinking and strategy in their "Plan A".

A full "reaping" takes centuries even with Plan A.  They always were the "slow unthinking tidal wave of doom".

But with some sophistication and very long term planning.
I am worried that now, they will act like idiots.

@ Dean
Well seeing how the Reapers apparently killed 7 million humans in the first week, I don't think they are that worried about humans dying out. Unless of course the trailer narrator thought those 7 million were dead, while in reality were processed. Actually, can't the Reapers harvest dead humans anyways?



EDIT to add: The Leviathan of Dis, from ME1
"The Leviathan of Dis[/b] is the name given to a gigantic corpse that disappeared from a crater on Jartar in 2163. It is believed to be the remains of a genetically engineered starship and its age was originally placed at nearly a billion years old.

Unfortunately, there was little time to study and uncover the true nature of this mysterious find. Not long after its discovery by a batarian survey team, a batarian dreadnought visited the Dis System, after which the Leviathan mysteriously disappeared. The batarians have since strenuously denied that the Leviathan existed at all. They become even more vocal when showed documentation of the Leviathan by salarian researchers before its disappearance."

You think the Leviathan is  another reaper who will be indoctrinating Batarians?

It would be unrealistic to expect the Reapers to make no mistakes now.  Let's face it, in the millions of years they've been doing the reaper thing, they've never had to fight a REAL war.  Their strategy was "take out government and command and control, isolate everyone by shutting down mass relays".  After that, it's cleanup.

Now, they're faced with fighting an organized enemy, something they've never done before.  It would not be believable if they did everything perfectly under circumstances they have no real experience with.

Just a minor point here, we know that at least one Reaper was 37 million years old and its not too much of a stretch to imagine that many others are also, so if the Reapers have been doing this for 37 million years and doing them every 50 thousand years then that means that there have been 740 Reaper Cycles, its possible that the 37 million year old Reaper was a baby in comparison to the other Reapers though.

In 740 Cycles its not too much of  a stretch to imagine that other races have managed to achieve what the Protheans did, and throw a spanner in the works.  The Protheans are the only ones that we know of, that does not necessarily mean that they are the only ones ever.

[jamesp81]

Wizz wrote...

Ultai wrote...

It was just a really big sniper rifle or assault rifle. Since they use the same mass accelerator tech. I doubt they meant it to be a viable anti reaper weapon. It was probably just a big slow planetary bombardment weapon they already had prior to the Reapers that they just decided, hey let's kill us a Reaper to go out with style. I don't think they had time to build it during the invasion.

I think they had. Century(ies) [dont' forget how long Harvesting is] of isolation in solar system. I must admit that they were badass enough to avoid Last Day anarchy and build this cannon.

A reaping takes centuries.  As for how long it takes to reap a planet, the ME3 trailer might give us a clue.

The British Sniper indicated that 9 million were killed in the first week.  Earth's population is 11.4 billion.  Assuming 10 million a week dead, it would take 10 years to reapify half the Earth's population.  I think those kill rates will rise with time, but it's very clear that a full reaping of a large population world takes a good long time.

[Ahriman]

jamesp81 wrote...
The British Sniper indicated that 9 million were killed in the first week.  Earth's population is 11.4 billion.  Assuming 10 million a week dead, it would take 10 years to reapify half the Earth's population.  I think those kill rates will rise with time, but it's very clear that a full reaping of a large population world takes a good long time.

He was talking about London.

Dave666 wrote...
In 740 Cycles its not too much of  a stretch
to imagine that other races have managed to achieve what the Protheans
did, and throw a spanner in the works.  The Protheans are the only ones
that we know of, that does not necessarily mean that they are the only
ones ever.

Agree, I'm sure they've met dozens of 'Shepards' before. They've absorbed knowledge, technologies and tactics of hundreds of species. It would be strange to think that they know less about strategy than their victims.

[jamesp81]

Wizz wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
The British Sniper indicated that 9 million were killed in the first week.  Earth's population is 11.4 billion.  Assuming 10 million a week dead, it would take 10 years to reapify half the Earth's population.  I think those kill rates will rise with time, but it's very clear that a full reaping of a large population world takes a good long time.

He was talking about London.

That's not clear from the trailer.  Sorry.  He simply said 9 million dead the first week, with most of the Alliance's forces retreating and regrouping.

Current population of London is 7 million or so.  Earth's population in ME is 11.4 billion, which is about ~50% greater than the current population (estimated at 7 billion).  Assuming London grew proportionately to the rest of Earth's population, they'd be at about 11 million.  This is not a safe assumption as London's population has been steadily decreasing since WW2.

If the Reapers really killed 9 million in London, then there wouldn't be any civilians left for the sniper to help out.

The information we got from Vigil in ME1 clearly establishes the slow pace of a full reaping.  Spending a couple of years per high population world for a full reaping is completely within the established lore we get from Vigil.

[jamesp81]

Wizz wrote...

Dave666 wrote...
In 740 Cycles its not too much of  a stretch
to imagine that other races have managed to achieve what the Protheans
did, and throw a spanner in the works.  The Protheans are the only ones
that we know of, that does not necessarily mean that they are the only
ones ever.

Agree, I'm sure they've met dozens of 'Shepards' before. They've absorbed knowledge, technologies and tactics of hundreds of species. It would be strange to think that they know less about strategy than their victims.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they haven't met dozens of Shepards before.  If they had, they would've done something to ensure an incident like the Citadel sabotage in ME1 couldn't happen.

On the other hand, if they have met many "Shepards" before and their plans were still thwarted TWICE, then the Reapers are, in fact, complete ****ing idiots.

[Welsh Inferno]

I reckon they have been challenged this far before. Not something that happens often obviously. I think any other race that has got this far though falls at where we are at in ME3.

[Ahriman]

jamesp81 wrote...
Actually, I'm pretty sure they haven't met dozens of Shepards before.  If they had, they would've done something to ensure an incident like the Citadel sabotage in ME1 couldn't happen.

On the other hand, if they have met many "Shepards" before and their plans were still thwarted TWICE, then the Reapers are, in fact, complete ****ing idiots.

Who says that prothean way of blocking Citadel is the only one? Some race could kill all keapers, another could blow it up, another could avoid using relays by religious reasons... thousands of possibilities. "If something can be done wrong - it will be". It would be stupid if Reapers don't know it. You shouldn't fear plan faults, you should be ready to fix them. That's all.

[Dave666]

Wizz wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Actually, I'm pretty sure they haven't met dozens of Shepards before.  If they had, they would've done something to ensure an incident like the Citadel sabotage in ME1 couldn't happen.

On the other hand, if they have met many "Shepards" before and their plans were still thwarted TWICE, then the Reapers are, in fact, complete ****ing idiots.

Who says that prothean way of blocking Citadel is the only one? Some race could kill all keapers, another could blow it up, another could avoid using relays by religious reasons... thousands of possibilities. "If something can be done wrong - it will be". It would be stupid if Reapers don't know it. You shouldn't fear plan faults, you should be ready to fix them. That's all.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  For example for all we know that the reason that the Protheans made as much progress as they did towards creating their own Mass Relays was because a race previous to them left the Protheans a Beacon of some sort?  Or perhaps they messed around with a Relay in such a way that the Protheans were able to open one up and study it?  In 740 Cycles, its in no way unrealistic to imagine the various races of the past that have thrown a kink in the Reapers plans from time to time.  We wouldn't know what that kink was because the Reapers may have discovered it and closed that avenue each time.

[KnightofPhoenix]

jamesp81 wrote...
It would be unrealistic to expect the Reapers to make no mistakes now.

Of  course not, otherwise we wouldn't be able to win.
All victories are won by the mistakes of the vanquished as well as the prowess of the victor.

That said, I don't want the Reapers to make too many blatant mistakes. It would make them look incompetent and thus take a lot of the tension away. If they want the Reapers to be really frightening opponents, they should not limit this to hard boss fights, but rather have the Reapers seemingly be always one step ahead of you. Make it look like there is not that much hope. They are marketing ME3 as very dark and I think making the Reapers frightening both tactically and strategically would help a long way in doing that.

Now, they're faced with fighting an organized enemy, something they've never done before.  It would not be believable if they did everything perfectly under circumstances they have no real experience with.

True, but Sovereign was able to plan ahead and he very nearly succeeded. He gathered allies, came up with a plan and executed it almost flawlessly.

So while I agree that the Reapers may not have experienced full scale war, I do not think they would be incompentent at it. They seem to be highly intelligent and logical. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 avril 2011 - 02:39 .

[jamesp81]

Dave666 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Actually, I'm pretty sure they haven't met dozens of Shepards before.  If they had, they would've done something to ensure an incident like the Citadel sabotage in ME1 couldn't happen.

On the other hand, if they have met many "Shepards" before and their plans were still thwarted TWICE, then the Reapers are, in fact, complete ****ing idiots.

Who says that prothean way of blocking Citadel is the only one? Some race could kill all keapers, another could blow it up, another could avoid using relays by religious reasons... thousands of possibilities. "If something can be done wrong - it will be". It would be stupid if Reapers don't know it. You shouldn't fear plan faults, you should be ready to fix them. That's all.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  For example for all we know that the reason that the Protheans made as much progress as they did towards creating their own Mass Relays was because a race previous to them left the Protheans a Beacon of some sort?  Or perhaps they messed around with a Relay in such a way that the Protheans were able to open one up and study it?  In 740 Cycles, its in no way unrealistic to imagine the various races of the past that have thrown a kink in the Reapers plans from time to time.  We wouldn't know what that kink was because the Reapers may have discovered it and closed that avenue each time.

In 37 million years, they'd have seen every trick if people were playing them, and we would've lost in ME1.

What's unrealistic is to think a race that old, that has had to deal with shenanigans that long, got thwarted twice by Shepard.

They're on new ground here.  They've never had to fight a massive conventional war against an organized enemy.

[Ye Olde Gamer]

jamesp81 wrote...
They're on new ground here.  They've never had to fight a massive conventional war against an organized enemy.

Maybe, but I doubt that.  Even if none of our predecessors had their central government located off the citadel, the Reapers must have fought someone before they managed to conquer the galaxy prior to the first cycle.  I don't buy into Sovereign's claim that they have no beginning.

Besides, it's not like the Citadel races have ever fought anything like a Reaper invasion before, so I don't see why they should be at an inherent disavantage here.  They have no (known) logistics to hit, no clear command structure, and we know very little about their capabilities.  Whereas they know a great deal about us, at least assuming they read Sovereign/Harbinger's reports.

Modifié par Ye Olde Gamer, 16 avril 2011 - 06:48 .

[JKoopman]

inversevideo wrote...

What is the Reaper strategy? I believe Conan said it best: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. "