157 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

The Angry One wrote...

Mind you it'd be worth it to see the Jacob DLC not even break 10 purchases.

Oh C'mon, you know you'll be first in line to buy 'The Priiizze Pack' DLC.

[The Angry One]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Mind you it'd be worth it to see the Jacob DLC not even break 10 purchases.

Oh C'mon, you know you'll be first in line to buy 'The Priiizze Pack' DLC.

To this day it's the only available romance in ME2 I haven't done.
Even watching it on youtube made me feel dirty.

[Katy Bug]

Nightwriter wrote...

Not really sure how they dropped the ball with DA2.

I've been trying to figure that out myself.  I would've liked a DA:  Origins style epilogue at the end to give me some closure about what folks were doing after I beat the game, but I still really loved it.  The complaints that I've heard have blown me away because I feel it was a fantastic game.

[Obadiah]

Eurypterid wrote...
...
I think  the thing to keep in mind here is this game is still only a few weeks old. I doubt anyone from BioWare is going to say anything that could be interpreted as a criticism of the game, as that could affect sales.
...

Still fun to watch (or listen to, or read about) him do the dance though, and yak about it afterwards.

Modifié par Obadiah, 15 avril 2011 - 04:44 .

[Cutlass Jack]

The Angry One wrote...

To this day it's the only available romance in ME2 I haven't done.
Even watching it on youtube made me feel dirty.

True story...A few months ago I had to do a remote service call where I had to let a tech access the computer remotely to check some issues with the video card. So the tech wanted to check to see if video was also having trouble or just 3d graphics. So he calls up youtube and clicks on the first link that pops up without looking to see what it was. Which...I kid you not...was that very Jacob scene.

Awkwardest. Moment. Ever.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 15 avril 2011 - 04:49 .

[ozenglish]

Okay, I am going to go with a different approach for blame. Yes, EA and BIoware made some decisions that were not in the best interest of the franchise. They also made a lot that were. But we as consumers are at a point, to blame as well. A lot of gamers want an exact replica of style and gameplay, with which they can keep their main hero in play for the entire series. I understand this, and franchises like WoW and IF it ever comes out, Diablo 3 have basically kept the same tone for years. The problem is, that while they improve graphics and change stories, it is still really the same game. When Rift came out, I saw it, watched a few game play video's it felt the same as all the major MMORPGs, WoW meets Aion or whatever it is called. And it didn't feel like it was different.

At least Bioware had the guts to shake up the game a bit. Yes, there are some things I am not a fan of, but overall, I found it enjoyable, and thankfully different. I know that there are certain things that I wish would continue on forever from my youth, or from my gaming experience, or from my personal life, but I know if it did, I would not have made changes to who I am, and to improve on, or make mistakes from, and learn.

Bioware is going to learn from the mistakes in this game, believe me, after reading these forums, they will, but I think that DA3 is going to either bring DAO and DA2 together and make a truly good mix of the game, or it will not. But either way, the company will have learned and moved on. And as consumers, we have to realize that not all things are going to remain static. If Bioware had a game that had 30 million players like WoW, then DA2 would be DAO redux. But, obviously the don't, so they need to evolve and find a winning formula that will increase their market share.

And in the end folks, we have to admit to ourselves most of all, that while we are all gamers who one way or another like Bioware's products, we are also part of their profit making, and if you want to punish Bioware for whatever reason, you don't keep buying their games and hoping that you get the good one sooner or later. You change companies, try something new. Wait for the review if you are not too certain about what they will produce. Vote with your wallets, because that is all we can do as consumers. And if you are going to voice your concerns/likes/dislikes, keep your emotions and rants out of it, structure it logically, and you might find the developers would appreciate it more. Because believe me, I work in a retali company, where if someone who comes up to me, and is ranting, raving and yelling at me that they don't like something, they DON'T get helped until they settle down and can explain to me EXACTLY what the fault is. Like it or not, we are all humans, and deserve to be treated as such. SO tell them what you think, only after you have simmered down.

Thanks ladies and gentleman. For those of you who read this, thanks again.

[Mad-Max90]

How are consumers to blame? Your logic it's flawed

[ozenglish]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

How are consumers to blame? Your logic it's flawed

Just my opinion, take it for what you think it's worth.

[Mad-Max90]

Oh, please allow me to explain, how are we at fault for buying a sequal to a game that many of us like a lot only to be disappointed with the product they produced, how am I at fault, well I guess you could say that I relied to much on their other games that I thought this one was going to be worthy of the bioware label. It's easy to say vote with your wallet in hindsight but thanks for the tip however dated it may be

[ozenglish]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Oh, please allow me to explain, how are we at fault for buying a sequal to a game that many of us like a lot only to be disappointed with the product they produced, how am I at fault, well I guess you could say that I relied to much on their other games that I thought this one was going to be worthy of the bioware label. It's easy to say vote with your wallet in hindsight but thanks for the tip however dated it may be

You make good points, and yes, they are valid, but with the RPG series, and this is just an opinion I hold, and i know A LOT don't, but I truly feel it needs to move forward. Also, Bioware did mention, several times they were drastically changing the game style itself.  So if that wasn't an indication that the RPG format for DA was being changed, I can't really point to what was a good indicator.

I think we are at fault for wanting things to be the exact same. Sienfeld did it for 20 years, X-files for what 10 or so, and even today, I can't watch a seinfeld episode after season 3 or an xfiles one after season 4 because they were the same old formula.

A lot of gamers don't like change in their franchises, but the day Civilization went hex, I was over the moon happy!

I think if consumers actually gave companies the freedom to test new concepts in their games, and not stick to the same old formula and if the companies actually said, "we would like to change formula for this game. what do you think would improve it?" I think gaming could go back to being innovative again.

EDIT: So yes, if EA and Bioware are to blame for anything, I think it is that a few actual polls for concepts should have been taken before development began. This would have given the community a more inclusive responsibility in improving the franchise.

Modifié par ozenglish, 15 avril 2011 - 05:51 .

[Hexsun]

Well EA is not solely responsible for the disaster of DA2. Mike Laidlaw also managed to ruin the game quite well.

[Mad-Max90]

I love how you state shows not switching up their formula as being bad then go on to say they had incredibly long runs, there is a reason they lasted so long, the formula worked, maybe not for you but obviously to the vast majority it worked otherwise they would have been cancelled sooner than 10 years, I never stated change can't be good, but when you start to break something that wasn't broken that's when I get a bit uppity

[ozenglish]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I love how you state shows not switching up their formula as being bad then go on to say they had incredibly long runs, there is a reason they lasted so long, the formula worked, maybe not for you but obviously to the vast majority it worked otherwise they would have been cancelled sooner than 10 years, I never stated change can't be good, but when you start to break something that wasn't broken that's when I get a bit uppity

Uppity has to be one of my favourite words.. love it.

I think that Seinfeld did well for its length of time in north america, moreso than it did in Australia which is where I am from. I don't know if it is a cultural thing for shows, or myself personally, but where something does well for a generation or two, it doesn't somewhere else. That is one of the reasons I actually dig my heels in about the need for change.

So yes, if that is where you get the mixup for my opinion on seinfeld and the xfiles, I think it probably boils down to cultural differences. So I did not mean that to sound diametrically opposite but that how it was received I guess.

I think that some people on here may have one thing I agree with, maybe it should not have been called DA 2. That title does seem to assume that there has been another Arch Demon brought into play.

But back to mechanics, I am one of the few who liked it. I find my life a bit too busy to sit down and go through a tonne of character creation and tactics, and if I need a fix on either of those, I go play oblivion or civilization.

Last time I used the word uppity, was to my gf who is 9 years younger than I , and she laughed her butt off at me for a week... love uppity.

[Johnsen1972]

Why is everyone blaming EA? I blame Mike Laidlawl only. he was the designer of this medicore game.

[Mad-Max90]

Oh I loved the new combat, it's the story and lack of an ending so they can push us into dlc like lemmings off a cliff, oh and for a game to say you have a choice they damn well better give choices to the players, that is why I'm a bit pissy not because of the new style

[ozenglish]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Why is everyone blaming EA? I blame Mike Laidlawl only. he was the designer of this medicore game.

*Heavy sarcasm* Because EA is going to bring about the death of all gaming houses, dontcha know? LOL.. Honestly, no Idea.

[Morroian]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Why is everyone blaming EA? I blame Mike Laidlawl only. he was the designer of this medicore game.

Yes Mike Laidlaw made every single decision BY HIMSELF on the game.

[Johnsen1972]

Morroian wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Why is everyone blaming EA? I blame Mike Laidlawl only. he was the designer of this medicore game.

Yes Mike Laidlaw made every single decision BY HIMSELF on the game.

Yes, the design decisions.

EA actually did a great job selling Mikes medicore game (soley designed by him and his "core design team")

Those are the ones to blame, not Bioware or EA. Maybe the Bioware Boss who made Mike Lead Designer.....

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 avril 2011 - 06:33 .

[Morroian]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Why is everyone blaming EA? I blame Mike Laidlawl only. he was the designer of this medicore game.

Yes Mike Laidlaw made every single decision BY HIMSELF on the game.

Yes, the design decisions.

I suggest you do some research on how decisions get made in bigger organisations.

[Johnsen1972]

Morroian wrote...

I suggest you do some research on how decisions get made in bigger organisations.

Yeah do that, the EA bosses are clueless about gamedesign. Thats why they hired someone to do that.
And designing DA2 was Mikes job, not EA's. EA's job is to sell the game, which they did quite well.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 avril 2011 - 06:39 .

[erynnar]

ozenglish wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I love how you state shows not switching up their formula as being bad then go on to say they had incredibly long runs, there is a reason they lasted so long, the formula worked, maybe not for you but obviously to the vast majority it worked otherwise they would have been cancelled sooner than 10 years, I never stated change can't be good, but when you start to break something that wasn't broken that's when I get a bit uppity

Uppity has to be one of my favourite words.. love it.

I think that Seinfeld did well for its length of time in north america, moreso than it did in Australia which is where I am from. I don't know if it is a cultural thing for shows, or myself personally, but where something does well for a generation or two, it doesn't somewhere else. That is one of the reasons I actually dig my heels in about the need for change.

So yes, if that is where you get the mixup for my opinion on seinfeld and the xfiles, I think it probably boils down to cultural differences. So I did not mean that to sound diametrically opposite but that how it was received I guess.

I think that some people on here may have one thing I agree with, maybe it should not have been called DA 2. That title does seem to assume that there has been another Arch Demon brought into play.

But back to mechanics, I am one of the few who liked it. I find my life a bit too busy to sit down and go through a tonne of character creation and tactics, and if I need a fix on either of those, I go play oblivion or civilization.

Last time I used the word uppity, was to my gf who is 9 years younger than I , and she laughed her butt off at me for a week... love uppity.

I have heard this argument before, mate...not enough time to sit down and spend tons of time with a game. Okay. there are plenty of games you can play that aren't  going to take up hours of your time, or if they do then you can save and no harm no foul. RPG's (if they're done right) take time, and creative thinking. If it isn't your cup of tea, there are plenty others to chose from (and I get it with the time thing) but there are plenty of people who have or will make the time for an old school (with modern graphics and fixes) RPG.

And I don't get it, so you don't have the time? That is what saves are for, and a quest log. Seriously,  there is a market for RPG and not action hack and slash with a slight smattering of RPG. More choices for other genre then RPG, so why can't a company make an RPG for those of us who want one (oh they did DAO) and  keep making them and if I want a action hack/slash, or a first person shooter I'll play one? Where did this "RPG must change so we will make it to capture audiences that already have plenty of good games in those genres" come from? Andraste's flaming knickers, you'd think RPG was some form of pirate crabs that needed a  special shampoo of rinse lather, repeat, if we go by DA2, anyhow.

Sorry for the rant. Wine, plust early morning buggering off to work, plus mum and dad coming to visit with dogs. I am a little punchy.

[Morroian]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Morroian wrote...

I suggest you do some research on how decisions get made in bigger organisations.

Yeah do that, the EA bosses are clueless about gamedesign. 

Greg and Ray, the founders of Bioware are (and current senior EA Execs)?  Nevertheless that wasn't what I was talking about.

[Johnsen1972]

They or any EA bosses are NOT involved in the game design of DA2.
They didnt decide that enemies have to explode or that men rain from the sky. They havent been involved in the decision to tell a very linear story that plays in a small village called Kirkwall with 5 maps, or that the design team should "artfully" reuse one big dungeon map.

You really want to blame a whole company for those decisions made by Mike L.? Think carefully.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 avril 2011 - 06:49 .

[Morroian]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

They or any EA bosses are NOT involved in the game design of DA2.

Thats not what you said.

Johnsen1972 wrote...

They didnt decide that enemies have to explode or that men rain from the sky. They havent been involved in the decision to tell a very linear story that plays in a small village called Kirkwall with 5 maps, 

What we see of Kirkwall is clearly only a small fraction of the entire city. And the story is not linear, the fact that we have little choice in the story direction does not make it linear. By that definition all novels are linear.

Johnsen1972 wrote...

or that the design team should "artfully" reuse one big dungeon map. 

Thats clearly a result of budget decisions ie. EA decisions.

Johnsen1972 wrote...

You really want to blame a whole company for those decisions made by Mike L.? Think carefully.

Like I said you really think Mike Laidlaw made every decision on the game solely by himself?

[Johnsen1972]

Morroian wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...
They or any EA bosses are NOT involved in the game design of DA2.

Thats not what you said.

So what did I say then? You blame a company of 8000+ people and some clueless bosses for a bad game, I blame the game designer.

Morroian wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...
They didnt decide that enemies have to explode or that men rain from the sky. They havent been involved in the decision to tell a very linear story that plays in a small village called Kirkwall with 5 maps, 

What we see of Kirkwall is clearly only a small fraction of the entire city. And the story is not linear, the fact that we have little choice in the story direction does not make it linear. By that definition all novels are linear.

The fact that we have almost no choices doesnt make a game linear? What makes a game linear then? 
Yes by my definition novels are linear. And so is the game.

Morroian wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...
or that the design team should "artfully" reuse one big dungeon map. 

Thats clearly a result of budget decisions ie. EA decisions.

Wrong, did you read the interview with Mike Laidlaw in gameinformer?

 Many of the caves and building interiors are repeated, even though  the locations are supposed to be different. What kind of limitations  necessitated this decision?
In the balance of production, we  realized that we had capacity to create and maintain more stories,  content, and encounters than we could necessarily create unique levels  for, so we made the call to re-use some of the caves and other levels in the interest of providing more sidequests and encounters 

http://social.biowar...1/index/7077188

That was Mikes decision with his "core design team"

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 avril 2011 - 07:29 .