195 réponses à ce sujet

[ripstrawberry]

"Well. I would think that the elemental tree would be one of the first trees to max out. Dropping a firestorm on enemies will still be one of the highest damaging spells and the cold spells will help a lot in CC and brittling- the +50% critical damage from brittles, (including the upgrade to petrify,) will be important in killing elites (who I imagine will have stackloads of hp), especially due to the 100% critical chance you should have."

While I did want the cold spells and fireball, I've decided that I don't want firestorm. While the dog is immune, for the times I have party members (companion quests), they foolishly run into the AOE (*cough*anders*cough) and get themselves killed. I could circumvent this I suppose w/ fire resistance runes + elemental aegis on the warriors but how about the rogues and the mages? I'm actually torn now as to whether I should focus on offensive gear like +crit% gear and play more carefully or go for more casting power/defensive gear so I can relax and not have as much reloads during the harder fights. I am quite fragile and I don't have the threat management of the rogue. Initially, I've veered toward a defensive gear and ability selection approach which is why I didn't focus on getting brittle- I don't have 100% crit but I have tons of dmg res, +hp and bm conversion gear.

"After that you probably will want to focus on threat management. An upgraded blood slave could be useful in that regards. Stick it on an almost dead elite or something (high hp) then use mind blast to redirect enemy threat at it. This would mean that you'll get enemies crowding around your bomb when it goes off."

This is a solid point. This wierdly has eluded me. The blood slave will be useful as another source of threat and could serve to get a few enemies off of me as well especially w/ mind blast + horror.

"I'm also wondering if you could use a walking bomb+barrier strategy; e.g. when getting mobbed by lots of melee enemies you could cast walking bomb on an almost dead enemy, cast barrier over yourself then trigger the bomb via something powerful like one-foot-in, blowing it up on the mob around you."

I'm especially stingy when it comes to using one foot in because I hate having to go out of blood magic mode. While that is a nice strat, I feel I won't have enough points for it.

"Otherwise, I think the general strategy of pull of abyss+grav ring --> firestorm+tempest --> walking bomb/standard haste dps would do the trick in most cases. "

True but spread out enemies, especially archers are my bane. That's where I usually get my wipes.


"You're playing solo right?"

Yup w/ the dog except on companion quests and legacy DLC.

"So yeah, in terms of what to change with your current build I would recommend removing misdirection hex and the upgrade to hex of torment (useless when you already have 100% crit chance), removing the upgrades to maker's fist (since it should be mainly used for threat management rather than damage), and maybe remove your glyphs (though I'm not too sure how useful they are for your playstyle)."

Yeah I've considered removing the upgrade to hex of torment, especially if I go down the 100% crit route later in the game. Actually the reason I got the upgrades for the maker's fist is more threat management. More stuns to redirect threat. The glyphs are what I use to keep enemies off me if they still choose me out of stuns but I suppose if I get more offensive spells from the elemental tree I won't have as much enemies on me that horror and mind blast may be enough. I'll try it out.

"Instead you should get your elemental tree fleshed out (everything but the fireball upgrade), upgrade petrify, get barrier (and maybe crushing prison when you have the points), and get blood slave. You may not be able to do that all atm (might use up more ability points than you have) but in terms of firestorm nuking and cold crowd control and brittling, you'll really want to get your elemental tree."

So if I don't get 100% crit the petrify upgrade is useless right? I still feel barrier is just a nice thing to have but really mediocre. Why not the fireball upgrade? Everything else sounds good I think.

"But i'm sure you'll have a better idea of what you need given that you're the one who's experienced with these level 50 builds. I'm happy experimenting with my allure's crook rogue- who's save I just dug up. It seems like if the patched weapon in question is equipped pre-patch it doesn't get 'fixed'. "

Sounds fun! I did that w/ the warrior just for the high dragon fight so I don't have to wait for him to come down. It felt too much like an archer playthough though when I tried it on the rogue though.

[mr_afk]

here's a quick example: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=UoGeZxD2qzs

besides the way dissent is a lot easier post-patch, you can see how my unoptimised party (unfortunately disorienting criticals doesn't disorient so my disorient CCCs never happened) still sorta rapid crit it's way through reasonably fast. But yeah, i'm going to experiment a little more to see which abilities work and which don't, but atm it's basically just an auto-attack machine. I might see if assassinate CCCs work (it's melee range though- and vendetta doesn't work at all). And maybe i could even test out the DW/archery tree though it's doubtful it'll work.

[SuicidalBaby]

Unforgiving Chain + Hail of Arrows?  Though I don't suppose you need the crit, even at lvl 15 or so.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 09 août 2011 - 06:47 .

[mr_afk]

Yeah.. i'm just looking for something more flashy than autoattacks- though the base speed for a rogue seems to be a lot faster (seems to treat it like DW almost).

Maybe I'll just skip ahead into act 3 and see what dual haste + primeval lyrium rune looks like.

[mr_afk]

It's been a while in coming, but i've finally gotten around to updating my crit-mage to its latest (and final) form.
Well, I still need to update the ability order but I'll do that later.


Here are the two vids I recorded with it:
The Awiergan Scrolls: Second Aspect
A Murder of Crows

Feel free to ask any questions about anything.


Also, I'd appreciate it if anyone (hint hint, Relix28 haha) can check my tactics. They are hopefully a more advanced version of the ones I used in the vids I recorded.

Modifié par mr_afk, 30 octobre 2011 - 08:49 .

[AreleX]

don't do it relix28

[mr_afk]

 

[Relix28]

So, what? If I decide to help, I will be known for my sympathizing with the worst player (worst player sympathizer lol) and, if I don't, I'll feel like a dick and AreleX will make me his Commander in Cheif and maybe even buy me cake (mmm....cake). Great, now what?

[mr_afk]

Conundrum!

p.s. the cake is a lie

Modifié par mr_afk, 30 octobre 2011 - 02:28 .

[AreleX]

i am ashamed of the fact that this even requires deliberation

ashamed

go ahead and help mr afk, he needs it

>

[mr_afk]

Haha it isn't that it's necessary to help me with the tactics. I just was wondering if it could be optimised in any way and Relix did an awesome job last time with my melee party.

But of course if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to. No pressure or anything.


And tbh, if it's a question of cake, I would probably choose the latter option

Modifié par mr_afk, 30 octobre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Relix28]

Well, if the cake IS a lie, the I definitelly don't wanna end up all disappointed like poor old Sten here, do I?
www.youtube.com/watch

And since AreleX won't unleash his wrath upon me for helping mr_afk, I think I'll take the easy way out and help.

Here we go. In this first part, I highlighted most of the issues and suggested some of the possible solutions.


Merrill

1. Self: Health <50% - Deactivate:Bloodmagic
2. Self: Health <25% - Use:Health Potion
3. Self: Health <25% - Barrier - No need for this one, she will use health potion @ 25% HP
4. Ally: Health <25% - Barrier - It's better to specify a companion, since she might cast it on the Dog with low HP, set it to <50% HP, so that it prevents further damage and potentialy saves you potions and Heals
5. Self: Health >= 75% - Activate: Bloodmagic - put it near the bottom, since it has no beneficial effects by itself, set it to >= 50%, since health potion will restore her HP to 65%
6. Self: Any - Activate: Rock Armour
7. Self: Any - Activate: Elemental Weapons
8. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Firestorm
9. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Tempest
10. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Enemy: DISORIENTED - Stone Fist
12. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Hex of Torment
13. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
14. Enemy: BRITTLE - Jump to: 18
15. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Winter's Grasp - move it up, since it's also a decent damage ability, and you still have Petrify, in case of BRITTLE fail, or if another elite appears later
16. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Petrify
17. Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Chain Lightning
18. Enemy: Target at short range - Stone Fist
19. Enemy: Attacking Anders - Attack
20. Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack


Anders

1. Self: Health <50% - Deactivate:Vengeance
2. Self: Health <50% - Use:Health Potion
3. Self: Mana <10% - Use:Lyrium Potion
4. Self: Health <50% - Heal - change it 25% HP
5. Ally: Health <50% - Heal - specify a companion because of the Dog issue, set it to 25% HP for Varric and <10% for Merrill, otherwise it's somewhat a waste (you get 80% regen from Heal)
6. Self: Any - Haste - "Self: at least on enemy is alive" prevents casting the spell in those rare situations where you can cast it after every enemy is dead. It functions the same as "Self: Any", but with a nice little failsafe.
7. Self: Health >= 75% - Activate: Vengeance - set it to >= 50% in case heal and potions are on cooldown, and he will deactivate it below 50% anywayz
8. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Firestorm
9. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Tempest
10. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Enemy: DISORIENTED - Stone Fist
12. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Enemy: BRITTLE - Jump to: 17
14. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Winter's Grasp - move it up, since it's also a decent damage ability
15. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Petrify
16. Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Chain Lightning
17. Enemy: Target at short range - Stone Fist
18. Self: Health >= 50% - Martyr - set it to >=75%, otherwise it is possible he will damage himself and drop below 50%, and be forced to drop out of Vengeance

 

Varric

1. Self: Health <25% - Use:Health Potion - change it to either <10% or <50%, so it doesn't become redundant in conjunction with Anders' Heal
2. Self: Stamina <10% - Use:Stamina Draught
3. Self: Any - Activate:Bianca's Song
4. Self: Any - Activate:Speed
5. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Hail of Arrows
6. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Enemy: BRITTLE - Archer's Lance
8. Enemy: Clustered with at least four enemies - Fatiguing Fog
9. Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Confusion
10. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Pinning Shot - make it so it doesn't mess with your BRITTLED targets
11. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Brand - move it above pinning shot
12. Enemy: Target at short range - Kickback
13. Enemy: Attacking Anders - Attack
14. Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack

-extra suggestions for Varric: - make use for Rush, upgrade Bursting Arrow with Shattering Arrow, so he can exploit BRITTLE from Anders' and Merrill's winters grasps and pertyfies when Lance is on cooldown.



Part deux. Tactics re-writen in the name of optimizing (as suggested above). I included some notes at the end of each chracters' section, mostly for minor possible issues and some suggestions of mine.


Merrill

1. Self: Health <50% - Deactivate: Blood of the First
2. Self: Health <25% - Use:Health Potion
3. Anders: Health <50% - Barrier
4. Varric: Health <50% - Barrier
5. Self: Any - Activate: Rock Armour
6. Self: Any - Activate: Elemental Weapons
7. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Firestorm
8. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Tempest
9. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
10. Enemy: DISORIENTED - Stone Fist
11. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Winter's Grasp
12. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Hex of Torment
13. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
14. Enemy: BRITTLE - Jump to: 17
15. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Petrify
16. Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Chain Lightning
17. Enemy: Target at short range - Stone Fist
18: Self: Health >=50% - Activate: Blood of the First
19. Enemy: Attacking Anders - Attack
20. Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack

-notes: Not enough room to set up proper Barrier tactics for Hawke and Merrill, so I chose the two most lialbe candidates to get hurt most of the time. Casting it on herself would also cause an issue, since once she is out of Blood Magic, she has 0% mana. Also, not enough room to set up lyrium potion tactic for instances when out of BM.


Anders

1. Self: Health <50% - Deactivate:Vengeance
2. Self: Health <50% - Use:Health Potion
3. Self: Mana <10% - Use:Lyrium Potion
4. Self: Health <25% - Heal
5. Varric: Health <25% - Heal
6. Merrill: Health <10% - Heal
7. Self: At least one enemy is alive - Haste
8. Self: Health >= 50% - Activate: Vengeance
9. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Firestorm
10. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Tempest
11. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
12. Enemy: DISORIENTED - Stone Fist
13. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Winter's Grasp
14. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
15. Enemy: BRITTLE - Jump to: 17
15. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Petrify
16. Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Chain Lightning
17. Enemy: Target at short range - Stone Fist
18. Self: Health >= 75% - Martyr

-notes: you could add an attack tactic above the martyr tactic (e.g. enemy: using anged attack: attack), if you don't want a constant martyr spam, like the one in your Awiergan Scrolls video. Martyr is great, if he uses it sparingly, otherwise he looses out way too much on his DPS. Just my opinion.


Varric

1. Self: Health <10%/<50% - Use:Health Potion
2. Self: Stamina <10% - Use:Stamina Draught
3. Self: Any - Activate:Bianca's Song
4. Self: Any - Activate:Speed
5. Enemy: Target at medium to long range - Hail of Arrows
6. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Enemy: BRITTLE - Archer's Lance
8. Enemy: Clustered with at least four enemies - Fatiguing Fog
9. Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Confusion
10. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Brand
11. Enemy: BRITTLE - Bursting Arrow *
12. Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Enemy: health <50% - Pinning Shot **
14. Enemy: Target at short range - Kickback
15. Self: Bieng attacked by a melee attack - Rush
16. Self: Surrounded by at least three enemies - Rush
17. Enemy: Attacking Anders - Attack
18. Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack

* Use only, if you upgrade Bursting Arrow. It is a fairly powerful ability post-patch, and since you will have tons of BRITTLE from your three mages, it might be a good idea to get it.
** Stole this one from one of AreleX's guides. Basically, this assumes an elite has already been hit by Winter's Grasp ---> Archer's Lance (and Bursting Arrow) combo, so his health should be at least below 50%. And at that time, he fires up Pinning Shot, wich sets up a guaranteed DISSORIENT, wich can be exloited either via Stonefists or via Walking Bomb from your Hawke for some uber AoE damage. It might, however, slightly interfere with Petryfies.
- added a primary and a secondary rush tactic (might as well).


That should cover most of it. I took some liberties (like the Bursting Arrow for instance), but I will let mr_afk decide, if he is satisfied with the new setups. It is definitelly more optimized than before, but some things could be tweaked a little more to mr_afk's vision of this party setup, if perhaps he doesn't agree with some of my suggestions.
So, let me know what you think.

[mr_afk]

Thanks! Great job as usual.

The only thing that I think is slightly unnecessary is the need to specify companions due to the dog. This is due to the way this setup is fully ranged and the dog is melee- i.e. the dog will run off ahead while the party sticks pretty much in the same spot. But I agree that merrill probably shouldn't need a barrier; So maybe changing it to 'Ally: Health<50% - Barrier' will be sufficient.
Because Hawke is pretty fragile and can only withstand one or two hits, so having a barrier handy during ander's heal cooldowns will give the space for hawke to either knock down a potion or cast a heal.

And that's also the reason why it probably will be better to leave heal to trigger at ~50%; At 25% or 10% of a companions health, they can easily get one-shotted. At 50% you have a reasonable chance of surviving. It's sorta wasting its healing potential, but in theory you shouldn't be getting injured that much anyway. But yeah, leaving potions at 25% is nice (mostly prevents them getting healed and chugging potions at the same time) - besides in anders case, cos he's the one healing anyway. So assuming his potion is on cooldown, having his self-heal set at 50% allows him to maintain his health at a respectible level for longer.

I agree about the Winter's Grasp and the bursting arrow. I was trying to fix the issue of all my mages winter's grasping at the same time then running out of brittles immediately after; but I suppose after the first round it shouldn't be so bad (due to anders having a faster cooldown etc).

Oh, and about martyr.. i'm not sure. It's definitely worth it for the longer fights as it is the only way to maintain perma-haste and for anders to dish out more hurt via aoes and CCCs. But for shorter fights it isn't quite as necessary. I think i'll leave it with just the martyr option for now.


Thanks again! I'll update the tactics now

Modifié par mr_afk, 31 octobre 2011 - 05:08 .

[Relix28]

Np man. Glad to help.

About the barrier. Merrill might cast it on the dog (waste it), if the dog gets damaged in one of those close quarters battles (e.g. Xebenkeck), or, if the dog decides to stay close instead of running off. Specifying a companion is basically a nice little failsafe, but yeah, it's not really necessary. And since she is out of tactics slots, you don't really have much choice, if you want to protect everyone in the party. She might waste it occasionaly, but it shouldn't be too much of an issue overall.

I agree it's definitelly safer to have heal trigger at 50%, especially is a super glassy setup like this one. And since your Hawke also has an emergency heal ready at all times, it shouldn't be much of an issue anyway.

You can somewhat control Winter's Grasp's for your mages to not fire it up all at once, by either

a) Fire it up with Hawke so Varric can Archers Lance asap, while Merrill and Anders are casting thier Firestorm and Temest. If the target is still alive afterards, Merrill and Anders will use thier Winters Grasp for Varric to CCC with Bursting Arrow.

Move Winters Grasp up the tactics list so Merrill or Anders will fire it off before Firestorm and Tempest, while your Hawke is doing her Pull of the Abyss and Grav Ring stuff. Then either cast it with Hawke, if necessary, or let Merrill/Anders use Pertify and save your Winters Grasp for later.

Martyr should be limited enough with the >=75% HP tactic now that I think about it. In theory, he should be able to use it at least 4-5 times before droping below 75%, wich should be more than plenty. You can, however, order Anders when not to use Martyr, if you wish to.
E.g. adding "enemy: using ranged attack: attack" tactic above Martyr tactic basically tells Anders "don't use Martyr, until all archers are dead". But I suppose with triple Firestorms and Gravitic Ring, this isn't really necessary for 90% of the game.


Also, you might want to iclude this belt to the OP. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Wyvern_Hunter's_Belt
I'm might be a better choice than Seven Deadly Cinch, or a good alternative at least.

Modifié par Relix28, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:06 .

[mr_afk]

I didn't know they could actually cast spells on the dog. Well, for heals anyway- they don't actually cast heal on the dog do they? They just try to cast spells on it and don't notice your party members further away (who actually need it..)
Because if that's the case, barriers/heals wouldn't actually be getting 'wasted'; and it's pretty uncommon for the dog to get in-between party members when they sit tight grouped together..

Anyway, I don't think the finicky details behind winter's grasps etc will be that important in the grand scheme of things. Half its purpose (and that of petrify) is for crowd-control - brittles are an extra bonus- even without a CCC handy, hawke and varric gain an extra +50% critical damage.
When I ran through act 3 with my post-patch mage party I had completely unoptimised tactics and it didn't make too much of a difference (besides when they dropped their firestorms on me haha).

And yep, forgot about that- haven't done mota with my mage yet. I wonder what the armour set is like..
But yeah, that will be probably pretty useful - can't be bothered calculating which is superior though.
Anyway, adding it.

Modifié par mr_afk, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Relix28]

Im not 100% sure, but IIRC, they do actually manage to cast spells on the Dog (with no effect of course, other than wasting spells and mana). I would have to test it to be sure, but I think I remember this being reported some while ago. It is sort of like how Aveline can cast Bodyguard on herself, or how Merrill can cast Wounds of the Past with BM deactivated, if done via tactics.

Then new armor set could be useful for a Blood Mage I suppose (massive HP boost) and the set bonus is ok (+10% for each element). But overall, it's pretty underwhelming compared to some of the dlc stuff. And it's another set of chantry robes. *sigh*

Modifié par Relix28, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[mr_afk]

gah, i would have thought an entire vanilla game would be enough..well, i suppose it's to be expected, orlesians and their chantry.
hm if the +hp boost is enough, some of it might fit into the post-patch 'invincible mage' idea I was considering. But i'll look into it later/incincible mages are pretty boring

And yeah, i can't remember exactly so you're probably right.

Modifié par mr_afk, 01 novembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[Zachriel]

On those days when I can still muster some interest in playing DA2, I've been working my way through the end game with an old mage saved game. In the spirit of mixing things up a bit and trying something a little different from my normal mage, I tried this build out. I like it. My damage numbers are higher than they've ever been, and the fragility of the characters keeps me on my toes. I took down Hybris last night, though I did end up swapping in Aveline for Merril.

Now have only three things left in the game to do: Legacy, MOTA, and The Final Straw. It should be interesting to see how things go in the DLC. The Malvernis fight in particular might be challenging for a party with very low hp, unless we can wipe out all the archers at the beginning before they turn us all into pin cushions.

[mr_afk]

Glad it's working out for you

And yeah.. Malvernis was quite a pain. I think I've lost my mage vid of it and don't really have the time to record another atm, but here's the most essence to the most consistent method I came up with:

- Leave the companions all on one side (set to drop aoes and use dual haste autoattacks to wipe out anything on their side)
- At the same time, immediately run hawke to the other side and drop a firestorm on the archers (while they're still spawning) and leave the dog to soak up their arrows while returning to help the companions finish off their side
(That part is the most risky;  Occassionally they'll arrow down hawke or one of the companions will be stupid and run over to hawke instead of doing their job (due to the maximum distance they can be apart or something))
- Once that side is done, hasted autoattacks are usually sufficient to pick off the archers still distracted by the dog
- The rest is pretty straight forward. The only thing is to make sure the party has fire-resistance or maybe use an alternate build with a tanky aveline otherwise the firestorms towards the end will wipe everyone


It's sorta fun, especially with no-pause. But nothing beats DW for fighting dragons (using backstabs/vendettas to dodge their attacks/flames while dealing crazy damage)..haha good times.

Anyway, i'll be interested to hear how it goes when you get around to doing it  (It's one of the few fights almost impossible to crowd control everything)

Modifié par mr_afk, 01 novembre 2011 - 04:48 .

[zahra]

Just came in to say this is the most fun I've had playing a mage. I can't survive nightmare without following the guides here, so kudos to everyone who makes them, but this has to be my favorite one.High damage, fragile and with enough flexibility in the build to let me play the way I want to. Thanks for taking the time to make this.

[mr_afk]

You are very welcome.

It's always nice to hear that they are actually useful