134 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

Here

Pretty interesting read.

[Chewin]

Well, this has been discussed to death. Didn't actually know GR was gonna post a whole article about it though.

But I don't think BW's gonna do it, they don't need to. From what I've seen, ME3 is heading the right direction

Modifié par Chewin3, 14 avril 2011 - 02:26 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Yup, agreed. That's how I feel about it.

[GodWood]

I actually agree with the article and share the same concerns.
I'm definitely looking forward to ME3 but I'm still 'skeptical' that they will truly address the features I hated.

[Fiery Phoenix]

GodWood wrote...

I actually agree with the article and share the same concerns.
I'm definitely looking forward to ME3 but I'm still 'skeptical' that they will truly address the features I hated.

To be honest, my concerns have been significantly reduced by the recent GameInformer reveal. I'm still looking forward to seeing actual in-game content rather than text, though.

[Xeyska]

That article basically sums up all the concerns I'm feeling for ME3. Thank you for posting it, Fiery.

Modifié par Xeyska, 14 avril 2011 - 02:38 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

You're most welcome, Xey.

[Captain Crash]

Makes some clear and very well thought out points. Almost all I whole heartily agree with

[GHOST OF FRUITY]

Interesting stuff. I'm very happy with what i've read about ME3 so far however. It really does seem that Bioware are trying to 'bring back the RPG' with ME3. Looking foward to finding out more over the coming months.

[Irrepressible]

Agree with parts of that, but it certainly does show a level of bias.

[Oilking72]

Sounds like typical nerd rage to me. The only difference being that they have a web site and they're not on a message board.

I would say that DAII, while an enjoyable game to play, was not as good as it could have been solely because of the extremely short development cycle. What they accomplished in such a short amount of time was really quite remarkable.

Also, throwing up the user scores on metacritic as some sort of validation that there's this huge fan outrage to how DAII turned out is ridiculous as it amounts to the slanted opinions of a few thousand fans when the game has sold over a million units.

As for ME3, I think it is indeed going in the right direction. While I enjoyed ME2 immensely, I do actually agree with a lot of people about the lack of weapons and customization, lack of companion customization, etc. It just didn't affect my enjoyment of the game whatsoever as there were a lot of improvements that did work.

[Phaedon]

Pointless article?

Completely different developers made DA:O/2 and ME1/2/3.

It's like saying.
Hey Bioware, remember Alpha Protocol developed by Obsidian?
Yeah, I have to say that I didn't personally enjoy it so I am really concerned about ME3 right now.

[Fraevar]

Good article. I think it also hits the nail on the head by saying that what people want from Dragon Age is not the same as they want from Mass Effect and that BioWare needs to stop trying to copy style and structure. Build on Origins!

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I don't necessarily agree with everything the article said about Mass Effect. I can't speak for DA2, except that if the deeper RPG elements worked for DA:O, they shouldn't have neutered things in DA2. Even though streamlining worked for ME1 going into ME2, I don't see that there was much evidence to show that it would have worked as effectively for DA.

ME1's system had good RPG features, but its implementation of many of them was a bit flawed, given it's similarities with DA:O. In that way, I found I enjoyed ME2 far more than I already enjoyed ME2. Knowing this, I find that I am feeling pretty confident in ME3, hearing that it will both re-incorporate some of the lost elements of ME1, as well as add to the aspects brought in from ME2. At least for ME, I feel that BW is on the right track.

[Abispa]

I enjoyed DA2, but I admit that it is flawed (bizarre mage storyline inconsistency and level design being personal pet peeves). ME3, however, looks like it will features slight modifications to ME2's successful formula, and not feature radical departures in level design, features and game playing styles. And since you've NEVER had the option to play as anyone except Shepard (even within your party), we won't read thousands of unhappy posts from fans complaining that they can't play as a Krogan or Turian.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Phaedon wrote...

Pointless article?

Completely different developers made DA:O/2 and ME1/2/3.

It's like saying.
Hey Bioware, remember Alpha Protocol developed by Obsidian?
Yeah, I have to say that I didn't personally enjoy it so I am really concerned about ME3 right now.

Of course they're different teams. But as long as they're under the same developer, there tends to be some sort of common influence involved.

Regardless, as of the GI reveal, I'm not in the slightest bit worried about ME3. If anything, it shows that BioWare has been listening to suggestions with their ears wide open.

[Phaedon]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Of course they're different teams. But as long as they're under the same developer, there tends to be some sort of common influence involved. 

I can't help but disagree with this part.

From my experience (which has never been that of the "insider's"), leading game designers are the ones who influence the rest of the project. Now, being influenced and inspired from other projects is very common, but there's as much chance that the 'other project' is from another developers, as from the same developer, but in a different team.

Imo.

[jlb524]

ME3 has already been developed so I don't see how DA2 feedback will affect it.

[FlyinElk212]

I don't know, I'm partially w/ this article on this one, but not for the reasons the article underlined.

I don't think that one team's developing influence has any effect on the other. They can certainly gain inspiration from one another, but one developing team's faults are not the other's as well. The reason why I'm concerned is because both of Bioware's RPG franchises are beginning to follow hauntingly similar production curves:

DA ARC:
Dragon Age: Origins (well-received game) --> Leliana's Song (well-received DLC) --> Witch Hunt (poorly-received final DLC) --> DA2 (poorly-received game)

ME ARC:
Mass Effect 2 (well-received game) --> Lair of the Shadow Broker (well-received DLC) --> The Arrival (poorly-received final DLC) --> ME3 (???)

There are more similarities within these arcs: LS & LOTSB focus on a fan-favorite character and their stories. Witch Hunt & The Arrival both gets rid of party/squad members, etc. etc.

Now, the reason as to why both franchises are following similar production curves is unknown...I'm going w/ a certain parenting company. Here's to hoping ME3 breaks the pattern.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 14 avril 2011 - 03:30 .

[Uszi]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...



Regardless, as of the GI reveal, I'm not in the slightest bit worried about ME3. If anything, it shows that BioWare has been listening to suggestions with their ears wide open.

Respectfully, disagree.  The DA2 fallout was only a short while ago---what, a month?.  There's no way that DA2 criticisms have influenced what we've seen of ME2 already.  I garuantee that the images and features we saw in the GI article were vetted by the development team and by PR for months prior to release.

If DA2 criticisms are affecting ME3 at all, then those changes are only now being discussed.  Anything we see of ME3 coming out in the immediate future was probably planned to be released last fall, or earlier.

FlyinElk212 wrote...


DA ARC:
Dragon Age: Origins (well-received game) --> Leliana's Song (well-received DLC) --> Witch Hunt (poorly-received final DLC) --> DA2 (poorly-received game)

ME ARC:
Mass Effect 2 (well-received game) --> Lair of the Shadow Broker (well-received DLC) --> The Arrival (poorly-received final DLC) --> ME3 (???)

Also disagree.  Arrival was poorly recieved compared only to LotSB, which was a completely outstanding piece of DLC.  Compared to Firewalker or Overlord,  Arrival is on par.

Modifié par Uszi, 14 avril 2011 - 03:29 .

[hawat333]

A good read, and I guess it can be summed up with this quote.
"They certainly won’t upset any newer fans by giving a completely optional amount of depth, and the reception of Dragon Age 2 is proof positive that RPG fans don’t appreciate a game without it."

[FlyinElk212]

Uszi wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...


DA ARC:
Dragon Age: Origins (well-received game) --> Leliana's Song (well-received DLC) --> Witch Hunt (poorly-received final DLC) --> DA2 (poorly-received game)

ME ARC:
Mass Effect 2 (well-received game) --> Lair of the Shadow Broker (well-received DLC) --> The Arrival (poorly-received final DLC) --> ME3 (???)

Also disagree.  Arrival was poorly recieved compared only to LotSB, which was a completely outstanding piece of DLC.  Compared to Firewalker or Overlord,  Arrival is on par.

Regardless of how any person perceives the DLC, there is an undeniable downward slope in quality from LotSB to Arrival, no?

[termokanden]

The developer clearly saw an opportunity for further success through streamlining, removing nearly all RPG mechanics from Mass Effect 2 in exchange for a far sleeker presentation.

Give me a break. They didn't remove "nearly all RPG mechanics". Seems to me like these guys have an agenda, and now they can use the controversy surrounding DA2 to speculate about ME3.

[Sable Phoenix]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

Good article. I think it also hits the nail on the head by saying that what people want from Dragon Age is not the same as they want from Mass Effect and that BioWare needs to stop trying to copy style and structure. Build on Origins!

Exactly this.

Sure DA2 sold a million units; it sold on the strength of its predecessor, Origins.  But it was not built upon Origins but was rather built upon Mass Effect.  As good as Mass Effect may be, the series is definitely moving in a stripped-down, twitch-gameplay direction, which is not the direction of good classical style RPGs like Origins was.  BioWare needs to maintain differentiation between the two properties, not merge them into one bland homogeneous experience.  I like Mass Effect fine, but keep it out of my Dragon Age.

[Sable Phoenix]

termokanden wrote...

The developer clearly saw an opportunity for further success through streamlining, removing nearly all RPG mechanics from Mass Effect 2 in exchange for a far sleeker presentation.

Give me a break. They didn't remove "nearly all RPG mechanics". Seems to me like these guys have an agenda, and now they can use the controversy surrounding DA2 to speculate about ME3.

Yes.  Yes they did.  Hitting a few upgrade buttons whenever you have done enough missions to accumulate the credits for it is not RPG mechanics.