134 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Yes.  Yes they did.  Hitting a few upgrade buttons whenever you have done enough missions to accumulate the credits for it is not RPG mechanics.

What do the upgrades have to do with anything? I get that you are missing the inventory system. That doesn't account for nearly all RPG mechanics.

ME2 is still an RPG. You talk to people, you make decisions, you have character development. It may be "missing" an inventory system (yes I also would have liked it if they had kept weapon and armor mods), but it still has what it needs to be called an RPG.

Oh I can't believe I missed this gem from the article:

The franchise had made a big splash among those who couldn’t tell an RPG from a hole in the ground, so the changes were deemed a massive improvement, and a new height for the series.

Some of us are RPG veterans and yet still loved ME2. It's possible, although clearly some people like to pretend it isn't. ME1 wasn't a "classic RPG" anyway. It was a shooter RPG, and the shooter component needed improvements. I don't necessarily agree with every little change made in ME2, but generally I find it more fun to play. And it's still an RPG.

But what of those who prefer their RPGs to be deep, intellectual exercises that reward analytical decision making skills and potentially game-changing moral dilemmas?

How was it ever a deep, intellectual exercise to figure out that you press "Immunity", "Barrier" or perhaps "Lift" or "Singularity" and your problems go away? As for moral dilemmas, there are some in both ME1 and ME2. This was never removed from the game.

Modifié par termokanden, 14 avril 2011 - 03:47 .

[GodWood]

termokanden wrote...
ME2 is still an RPG. You talk to people, you make decisions, you have character development.

Halo has all those things.
It is not an RPG.

[termokanden]

GodWood wrote...

termokanden wrote...
ME2 is still an RPG. You talk to people, you make decisions, you have character development.

Halo has all those things.
It is not an RPG.

There's character development in Halo?

[MikkroBitti]

I just hope one thing...PLEASE please please don't screw up the story! Ending must be something unfriggingbelievable! AAAGH I cannot take this!

Modifié par MikkroBitti, 14 avril 2011 - 04:11 .

[CroGamer002]

Stop reading at "removing nearly all RPG mechanics from Mass Effect 2"

[Timon44]

This discussion is developing exactly like most DA2 discussions: Whether you like it or not depends on what you expect from an RPG.
And the one thing that annoys me everytime is how noone can accept that other people have different opinions and that there is no right or wrong opinion.

[termokanden]

Well this article attacks those who have different opinions with statements like the one about ME2 making a big splash among those who can't tell an RPG from a hole in the ground.

I dislike how we are supposed to start a discussion for everyone about ME3 but based on a clear bias against ME2.

Modifié par termokanden, 14 avril 2011 - 04:30 .

[Timon44]

termokanden wrote...

Well this article attacks those who have different opinions with statements like the one about ME2 making a big splash amon those who can't tell an RPG from a hole in the ground.

I dislike how we are supposed to start a discussion for everyone about ME3 but based on a clear bias against ME2.

True. That is part of what I meant. The points that the writer makes in the article are not "wrong". But he still seems very arrogant in that he thinks his own opinion is the only one that counts.

[InvaderErl]

GodWood wrote...

termokanden wrote...
ME2 is still an RPG. You talk to people, you make decisions, you have character development.

Halo has all those things.
It is not an RPG.

I must have missed Halo's dialogue wheel, morality alignments and its decision points...


Huh.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[PirateT138]

The Dragon Age series and the Mass Effect series should not follow the same formula. It's as simple as that, trying to apply things that worked for ME to DA is foolish, but that's what they did with DA2 and I hated it.

[InvaderErl]

PirateT138 wrote...

The Dragon Age series and the Mass Effect series should not follow the same formula. It's as simple as that, trying to apply things that worked for ME to DA is foolish, but that's what they did with DA2 and I hated it.

I agree. I rather liked the notion of Bioware being able to release a classical RPG alongside a slick action RPG but alas it was not to be.

In any case, I trust the dev team to know how far to go in terms of adding back in the RPG features without making it the mess that ME1's and some of DA2's mechanics were.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 avril 2011 - 05:23 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Ah, yes, "reviewers"...

[Phaedon]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

termokanden wrote...

The developer clearly saw an opportunity for further success through streamlining, removing nearly all RPG mechanics from Mass Effect 2 in exchange for a far sleeker presentation.

Give me a break. They didn't remove "nearly all RPG mechanics". Seems to me like these guys have an agenda, and now they can use the controversy surrounding DA2 to speculate about ME3.

Yes.  Yes they did.  Hitting a few upgrade buttons whenever you have done enough missions to accumulate the credits for it is not RPG mechanics.

I see, shifting through a cumbersome inventory is an RPG mechanic.

All hail the glorious RPG genre, then.

GodWood wrote...

termokanden wrote...
ME2 is still an RPG. You talk to people, you make decisions, you have character development.

Halo has all those things.
It is not an RPG.

I see, a 'I don't play CoD and Halo, I am so over this' person.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Savber100]

Phaedon wrote...

I see, shifting through a cumbersome inventory is an RPG mechanic.

All hail the glorious RPG genre, then.

Bioware should have refined the inventory system rather than dumping it entirely.

It's safe to say that Bioware's biggest flaw is their constant decision to dump an unrefined idea rather than improving on the concept instead.

[Someone With Mass]

From what I've gathered from the GI article, ME3 will have a good chunk of RPG elements. More so that ME2. And that's enough for me.

[azarhal]

Timon44 wrote...

This discussion is developing exactly like most DA2 discussions: Whether you like it or not depends on what you expect from an RPG.
And the one thing that annoys me everytime is how noone can accept that other people have different opinions and that there is no right or wrong opinion.

Nicely put. Although, I would have say "what you wanted in the game"...

I expect people to be just as ****** off by ME3 ending, simply because BioWare can't please everybody and some people already have overblown expectations...

[Someone With Mass]

Savber100 wrote...

Bioware should have refined the inventory system rather than dumping it entirely.

It's safe to say that Bioware's biggest flaw is their constant decision to dump an unrefined idea rather than improving on the concept instead.

I think ditching that horrendous inventory system was a good move. Every gun was pretty much  a slightly worse version of the next, anyway. And once you found the Colossus armor and the Spectre weapons, everything else became so obsolete.

The weapon mods will return to some extent in ME3, and that's all I'm asking for. 

I don't want another inventory system I have to spend five-ten minutes with after every fight, converting every POS gadget into omni-gel.

[Phaedon]

Savber100 wrote...
Bioware should have refined the inventory system rather than dumping it entirely. 

It's safe to say that Bioware's biggest flaw is their constant decision to dump an unrefined idea rather than improving on the concept instead.

Excusez moi, I must have played a different game.

Weapon Upgrades-->Lab Terminal
Armour Selection---> Wardrobe + Squad Selection Screen
Weapon Selection---> Weapon Selection Screen+ Armoury
Loot ---> Loot
???---> Armour+Health Upgrades

The only things one could claim that ME2 lacked, concerning the inventory was:
-Non-global upgrades
-Greater squad armour variety

Oh and don't forget
Awful, impossible to use inventory.

No it was not perfect, with weapon modification being the greatest hit, (squad armour is actually understandable, ME2 had a multi-species team), but the inventory was there, and it was user-friendly.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Someone With Mass wrote...

From what I've gathered from the GI article, ME3 will have a good chunk of RPG elements. More so that ME2. And that's enough for me.

This is huge. Others should also note that the GI article mentions expanding the shooter elements from ME2 as well. This particular BW crew seem to have it together, going into ME3.

[InvaderErl]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

From what I've gathered from the GI article, ME3 will have a good chunk of RPG elements. More so that ME2. And that's enough for me.

This is huge. Others should also note that the GI article mentions expanding the shooter elements from ME2 as well. This particular BW crew seem to have it together, going into ME3.

This. The big differences that I can see between the ME2+3 team and the DA2 dev crew is that the former seems to have a clear sense of their goals and what they want Mass Effect to be.

Dragon Age seems to have been somebody trying to make Mass Effect 2 in Dragon Age without understanding what made Origins or Mass Effect 2 a success.

[N7 Vanguard]

 Hey, as long as I can toggle my helmet on and off I will be happy.

[Phaedon]

InvaderErl wrote...


This. The big differences that I can see between the ME2+3 team and the DA2 dev crew is that the former seems to have a clear sense of their goals and what they want Mass Effect to be.

Dragon Age seems to have been somebody trying to make Mass Effect 2 in Dragon Age without understanding what made Origins or Mass Effect 2 a success.

And not just that.

They had those goals set and published online, a few weeks after ME2 was released.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[darth_lopez]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

From what I've gathered from the GI article, ME3 will have a good chunk of RPG elements. More so that ME2. And that's enough for me.

This is huge. Others should also note that the GI article mentions expanding the shooter elements from ME2 as well. This particular BW crew seem to have it together, going into ME3.

dear lord i hope it's all together i do i do i do...Perhaps BW can end the black year of vidoe games. 2010-2011so far has been imho the worst year in terms of video game quality ever. With the only remarkable games being ME2(divided opinions obviously), Reach, DA:O, Red Dead Redemption, SCII(potentially dropping from my list because of it's lack of innovative changes *see other current gen RTSs (Sup Com 2, Comp. O' Heroes, DOWII retirubution) changing the system up a bit and it's been moving like this since 2006) Total War Shogun 2, Portal 2(puzzle games can't fail)  and FNV(debatable).

It's just a wee bit sad in comparrison to all the other High level games that came out and we're supposed to be "Epic"

Modifié par darth_lopez, 14 avril 2011 - 06:37 .

[darth_lopez]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Bioware should have refined the inventory system rather than dumping it entirely.

It's safe to say that Bioware's biggest flaw is their constant decision to dump an unrefined idea rather than improving on the concept instead.

I think ditching that horrendous inventory system was a good move. Every gun was pretty much  a slightly worse version of the next, anyway. And once you found the Colossus armor and the Spectre weapons, everything else became so obsolete.

The weapon mods will return to some extent in ME3, and that's all I'm asking for. 

I don't want another inventory system I have to spend five-ten minutes with after every fight, converting every POS gadget into omni-gel.

You make a decent argument, not worrying about omni-gel is pretty nice. And the new mini-games in ME 2 were pretty fun:P just wish there was a second chance for failed attempts ya know?

[InvaderErl]

The ME2 reaction in reality has been largely positive. It came in either at first or second place on every user-poll I saw during the GOTY season. Even on polls here, which one would think would be hugely negative with all the belly-aching that goes on, in general ME2 when put to the question of "Did I like it or not"  and so on it seems to come out ahead by 2/3rds of the vote if not more. There's a vocal minority and all that, but compare that to at least some of the Dragon Age polls in which there really seems to have been a negative reaction and we see the vote split evenly.

Anyway, I really liked Dead Space 2 and Portal's coming out next week not to mention a slew of great titles. I think this will already be a great gaming year before ME3 launches.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 avril 2011 - 06:48 .