220 réponses à ce sujet

[Phantom13NWN2]

 This is originally an interview about Mass Effect 3, but the interview also touches a bit on the dissapointment of DA2. Basically Zeschuk and Muzyka states that fan feedback is something they take VERY seriously, and they also say that : "our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that enough."

Well the dissapointment of DA2 feels alot better now that someone atleast acknowledges that DA2 has its shortcomings.

Take a look yourselves.

I apologize if this has already been postet.
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

[Frybread76]

I find it ironic that Bioware employees keep saying how important the core fans are to them, yet the lead designer of DA2 basically has said the core fans are too stuck in their ways and not open to change, and it's their fault DA2 has received mixed reviews. I'm open to change, I'm just not open to bad change.

[Warheadz]

Looking back at Dragon Age II, there was some fan disappointment with certain aspects of the game. Is there anything behind the scenes that you think contributed to that and are there any big changes in store for the next installment?

Muzyka: "It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different.

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

We’ve actually attracted a lot of new people to the franchise. Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins. It’s probably part because it’s drawing a lot of new fans in. And that’s exciting to us. But our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that enough. They helped get us to where we are today. They’re the core of what we do, and we want to make sure we’re making games that satisfy them."

They don't say at any point or even imply that they acknowledge the game's shortcomings. They just say that yeah, core fans are important, but we got new fans with DA2 and it's selling faster than Origins! Yay!

I don't believe that they will really make what the "core fans" want.

Modifié par Warheadz, 14 avril 2011 - 03:30 .

[Darkest Dreamer]

Thanks for sharing Phantom.

Honestly, I actually enjoyed DA 2, even if I was disappointed by many of the decisions made in design. Hopefully they won't make the same mistakes come Dragon Age 3.

[Brockololly]

Yeah, I just saw that.

Quite frankly, this is what they always say- "Oh, our core fans are great! We'll surprise them and delight them!" It just rings rather hollow when they say the same stuff prior to DA2's release and every release only to have eaxh successive game more catered to people not playing RPGs and more focused on being "accessable" than actually being a good game with some modicum of depth and complexity.


And if anyone is interested, there is a new Laidlaw interview from Game Informer regarding DA2 here

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 avril 2011 - 03:34 .

[Phantom13NWN2]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I just saw that.

Quite frankly, this is what they always say- "Oh, our core fans are great! We'll surprise them and delight them!" It just rings rather hollow when they say the same stuff prior to DA2's release and every release only to have eaxh successive game more catered to people not playing RPGs and more focused on being "accessable" than actually being a good game with some modicum of depth and complexity.


And if anyone is interested, there is a new Laidlaw interview from Game Informer regarding DA2 here

Thanks I was looking for that, one thing that sticks out in muzykas response is how he says that DA2 sells faster, by now he must have seen the numbers showing that DA2 sales are dropping at an alarming rate, so why does he say that? to get more people to buy the game. Even the Dr.'s have been infected with the EA advertising virus.

[Dragoonlordz]

Ugh.. Lip service nothing more. I'm hoping for great title in ME3 though, but DA IP... If continues down its current path I have no interest in it. DA2 sold faster as he puts it if believed, simply because it's a sequal and initial sales were from the fanbase of DAO and Bioware in general not because it was an epic game better than any previous.

I'm still annoyed at Bioware for not releasing ME1 on PS3 though so thats still bitter to me even if they wanted to port the main selling title as they say to PS3 to give people (in their opinion) of best title so far in the ME IP but now that they have done so I think they should port ME1 to PS3. You can't really go around giving people a taste of a franchise and expect them to go out buy a complete new system to play the rest of titles in specifically "a trilogy". Now that ME2 is out and been out for little bit they should think about bringing across ME1 too, which would increase sales now that PS3 owners have got into the ME IP via ME2. It's a trilogy people expect 3 not 2.1 titles. Like I said is a sore spot subject with me.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 avril 2011 - 03:45 .

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ugh.. Lip service nothing more. I'm hoping for great title in ME3 though, but DA IP... If continues down its current path I have no interest in it.

I'm still annoyed at Bioware for not releasing ME1 on PS3 though so thats still bitter to me even if they wanted to port the main selling title as they say to PS3 to give people (their opinion ) of best title so far in the ME IP but now that they have done so I think they should port ME1 to PS3. You can't really go around giving people a taste of a franchise and expect them to go out buy a complete new system to play the rest of titles in specifially "a trilogy". Now that ME2 is out and been out for little bit they should think about bringing across ME1 too, which would increase sales now that PS3 owners have got into the ME IP via ME2. It's a trilogy people expect 3 not 2.1 titles. Like I said is a sore spot subject with me.

Not their fault MS as publisher of ME1 controls it. They would have to pay off MS or make some sort of deal and thats really not likely.

[Clammo]

"People rating it 90 to 100...." Yeah, Bioware employees on Metacritic!

Seriously all the waffle about how important core fans are just sounds like trite marketing lip service, and they'll just carry on down this simplified route. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and it's tasting pretty sour recently.

And of course the game's initially sold faster than Origins - games generally sell on the reputation of their predecessor and the developers. Now that reputation's been badly tarnished I'd expect sales to slow substantially, and probably that they'll have trouble selling DA3 in anything like the numbers they'll be hoping for based on the very many negative opinions of DA2.

Modifié par Clammo, 14 avril 2011 - 03:46 .

[MrTijger]

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...

Thanks I was looking for that, one thing that sticks out in muzykas response is how he says that DA2 sells faster, by now he must have seen the numbers showing that DA2 sales are dropping at an alarming rate, so why does he say that? to get more people to buy the game. Even the Dr.'s have been infected with the EA advertising virus.

They're running a business not a charity for traditional RPG lovers.

[JoshPloof]

Well they SAY the core fans are important but still are like "Dragon Age 2 is selling faster than Origins, we have a lot of new fans, the framed narrative is awesome" They still think their game is good, and I extremely doubt they're actually taking anything to heart, except the positive reviews.

[Warheadz]

What would you say to the PC gamer who feels like Dragon Age II was "dumbed down" compared to Origins?


"I would suggest that they play on Hard, frankly. Hard presents a solid, and consistent challenge to

veterans, and one where I think teamwork, pause-and-play, and smart thinking are all quite important"


Hah.  My first playthrough was on hard and I didn't feel any tactical challenge. I didn't even set any tactics to any character.

"we made the call to re-use some of the caves and other levels in the interest of providing more sidequests and encounters"


I think he meant they re-used every single cave at least 5 times.

And sad panda face for the fact that he comments that DA2's combat pace is here to stay. I wanted a middle version of the pace.

[MingWolf]

Good that they acknowledge the core fans. Little disconcerting that they still think the polarization is between those who like the changes and those who expected an Origins 2. I know people who would jump at the chance to compare it with the original game, but a lot of the criticism has nothing to do with synthetic differences but rather design elements that demerit the game as it stands by itself.

[Einherjar420]

Warheadz wrote...

Looking back at Dragon Age II, there was some fan disappointment with certain aspects of the game. Is there anything behind the scenes that you think contributed to that and are there any big changes in store for the next installment?

Muzyka: "It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different.

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

We’ve actually attracted a lot of new people to the franchise. Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins. It’s probably part because it’s drawing a lot of new fans in. And that’s exciting to us. But our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that enough. They helped get us to where we are today. They’re the core of what we do, and we want to make sure we’re making games that satisfy them."

They don't say at any point or even imply that they acknowledge the game's shortcomings. They just say that yeah, core fans are important, but we got new fans with DA2 and it's selling faster than Origins! Yay!

I don't believe that they will really make what the "core fans" want.

It seems to me they have acknowledged it. They must have read reviews and oppinions on various sites, including this one, to know that "some of them have expressed dissapointment."

There probably wouldn't be a patch if they hadn't acknowledge Dragon Age II's "short comings" either.

And in response to your signature; there may not be a sequel to the Origins of Dragon Age, but there is certainly a Dragon Age sequel.

[Nozybidaj]

Clammo wrote...

Seriously all the waffle about how important core fans are just sounds like trite marketing lip service, and they'll just carry on down this simplified route. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and it's tasting pretty sour recently.

Well, to be fair, that is all these interviews typically are.  They aren't actually going to come out and say "we don't care about the old fans so long as we get new ones" even if it is the truth.  Reading between the lines a bit though, you can see that is basically what he said.

And of course the game's initially sold faster than Origins - games generally sell on the reputation of their predecessor and the developers. Now that reputation's been badly tarnished I'd expect sales to slow substantially, and probably that they'll have trouble selling DA3 in anything like the numbers they'll be hoping for based on the very many negative opinions of DA2.

And that will be the real measure of success.  If DA3 sells better or worse than Origins will be the real indicator of how successful the change in format was.  Same with ME2/3 really.

[AkiKishi]

Nozybidaj wrote...
And that will be the real measure of success.  If DA3 sells better or worse than Origins will be the real indicator of how successful the change in format was.  Same with ME2/3 really.

That and if the sales drop like a stone once people relailise it's not a real sequel.

[MrTijger]

Nozybidaj wrote...

And that will be the real measure of success.  If DA3 sells better or worse than Origins will be the real indicator of how successful the change in format was.  Same with ME2/3 really.

I'd qualify that by saying 'if the profitability is better'. Taking nearly 5 years with, at one point, 180 people to make a game means you have to sell many many games to recoup the investment, taking one third of the time and people means you can settle for less sales and still have a higher profit and you can release 3 games in the same time span.

Modifié par MrTijger, 14 avril 2011 - 03:54 .

[Brockololly]

Warheadz wrote...

What would you say to the PC gamer who feels like Dragon Age II was "dumbed down" compared to Origins?


"I would suggest that they play on Hard, frankly. Hard presents a solid, and consistent challenge to

veterans, and one where I think teamwork, pause-and-play, and smart thinking are all quite important"


Hah.  My first playthrough was on hard and I didn't feel any tactical challenge. I didn't even set any tactics to any character.

Exactly- setting it to hard just means a 5 minute fight on normal now takes about 15 minutes. And besides, the "dumbing down" criticism goes far, far deeper than just the difficulty of the combat. It goes down to some of the fundamental design decisions to make a game for people that didn't like Origins versus trying to build off of and iterate off of what Origins established. They just tossed the baby out with the bathwater and now are going to act like DA2 is the real version of DA to iterate off of for future sequels.

[JoshPloof]

And after reading that laidlaw interview, I seriously will never touch another Dragon Age game if his name is on it. He just seems like a serious douche, with nothing but excuses. They re-used caves and dungeons so they could have more encounters and SIDEQUESTS? 100% of sidequests in the game were, Oh look I found a penny, let's go look for the owner. And encounters? So endless waves popping out of thin air, I EXTREMELY DOUBT they took up so much capacity they had to re-use dungeons over and over and over again, it's just laziness, pure and simple. And his response to it being dumbed down "play it on hard" that's not even a response, playing it on hard does not fix the endless amount of junk items that have no use except to sell or take up inventory space, playing it on hard does not fix the complete shallowness of the game, playing on hard only makes more enemies appear out of thin air. I really hate Laidlaw.

[Nozybidaj]

MrTijger wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

And that will be the real measure of success.  If DA3 sells better or worse than Origins will be the real indicator of how successful the change in format was.  Same with ME2/3 really.

I'd qualify that by saying 'if the profitability is better'. Taking nearly 5 years with, at one point, 180 people to make a game means you have to sell many many games to recoup the investment, taking one third of the time and people means you can settle for less sales and still have a higher profit and you can release 3 games in the same time span.

I'd see that really as a different measure of what success is than what I was talking about.  I'm sure that is the way EA sees it.  "Profit for Origins was X, profit for DA2 was X+1, profit for DA3 is X+2, we rock!!!"  That doesn't actually mean the game is a success with the folks playing the game. 

If you end up with less box sales (even if you end up with larger net profit) the folks who buy your games aren't viewing the changes you are making as successful.

[MorrigansLove]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I just saw that.

Quite frankly, this is what they always say- "Oh, our core fans are great! We'll surprise them and delight them!" It just rings rather hollow when they say the same stuff prior to DA2's release and every release only to have eaxh successive game more catered to people not playing RPGs and more focused on being "accessable" than actually being a good game with some modicum of depth and complexity.


And if anyone is interested, there is a new Laidlaw interview from Game Informer regarding DA2 here

Mike Laidlaw is a cretin, and I hope he is fired before DA3 comes out!

[Warheadz]

Einherjar420 wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

 Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

It seems to me they have acknowledged it. They must have read reviews and oppinions on various sites, including this one, to know that "some of them have expressed dissapointment."
 

In my opinion that's not acknowledging that DA2 had shortcomings. They are just stating that some people didn't like it and yeah, we read some of their feedback.

[Frybread76]

MrTijger wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

And that will be the real measure of success.  If DA3 sells better or worse than Origins will be the real indicator of how successful the change in format was.  Same with ME2/3 really.

I'd qualify that by saying 'if the profitability is better'. Taking nearly 5 years with, at one point, 180 people to make a game means you have to sell many many games to recoup the investment, taking one third of the time and people means you can settle for less sales and still have a higher profit and you can release 3 games in the same time span.

But much of DA2's success was in the first week, which means it sold off the popularity of DA:O.  I don't expect DA3 to have that soom boost from DA2.

[MrTijger]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I'd see that really as a different measure of what success is than what I was talking about.  I'm sure that is the way EA sees it.  "Profit for Origins was X, profit for DA2 was X+1, profit for DA3 is X+2, we rock!!!"  That doesn't actually mean the game is a success with the folks playing the game. 

If you end up with less box sales (even if you end up with larger net profit) the folks who buy your games aren't viewing the changes you are making as successful.

No, you are right, a portion of them will not, the question then is how big that portion is and whether its a big enough portion to change your strategy and thats something we cannot accurately fathom. Forums dont tell a true picture of the average customer.

BTW, it feels a little too easy to attribute this to EA, I expect its actually Bioware' own decision.

[AkiKishi]

Frybread76 wrote...
But much of DA2's success was in the first week, which means it sold off the popularity of DA:O.  I don't expect DA3 to have that soom boost from DA2.

If DA3 comes sooner rather than later I'm expecting a quick cash in before lights out.