220 réponses à ce sujet

[Frybread76]

JoshPloof wrote...

And after reading that laidlaw interview, I seriously will never touch another Dragon Age game if his name is on it. He just seems like a serious douche, with nothing but excuses. They re-used caves and dungeons so they could have more encounters and SIDEQUESTS? 100% of sidequests in the game were, Oh look I found a penny, let's go look for the owner. And encounters? So endless waves popping out of thin air, I EXTREMELY DOUBT they took up so much capacity they had to re-use dungeons over and over and over again, it's just laziness, pure and simple. And his response to it being dumbed down "play it on hard" that's not even a response, playing it on hard does not fix the endless amount of junk items that have no use except to sell or take up inventory space, playing it on hard does not fix the complete shallowness of the game, playing on hard only makes more enemies appear out of thin air. I really hate Laidlaw.

I agree.  I might rent DA3, but I will not buy it if Laidlaw is in any way involved.  He should be fired or reassigned to another project.

[John Epler]

I've mentioned it before, and it bears mentioning again - feel free to disagree with others, but avoid the personal insults, and this includes developers.

Calling someone a cretin or a douche, whether they are an employee of BioWare or another community member, is completely unacceptable. If you are unable to express yourself without personal insults, then you will not be welcome on these forums anymore.

[Everwarden]

MrTijger wrote...
I'd qualify that by saying 'if the profitability is better'. Taking nearly 5 years with, at one point, 180 people to make a game means you have to sell many many games to recoup the investment, taking one third of the time and people means you can settle for less sales and still have a higher profit and you can release 3 games in the same time span.

The problem is that they just cashed in their -one- free 'instant franchise buy' card, and it didn't pay off half as well as they expected*. If they released Dragon Age 3 a year from today and it continued down the same road DA2 went down, do you think it would break a million? I don't. I doubt it would break 500,000. Honestly, I think Blizzard has proven that making quality games (and yes, even if you don't like Blizzard or their games they all get a -ton- of polish) is a good way to go. 

*No. I know a fanboy is going to contest this point. Even if vgchartz is completely inaccurate, they still haven't come anywhere even removely close to the stated goal of 4.5 million, or even 2 million. 

[Uzaik]

Let's not call him a douche then. Let's just say, for truth's sake, that he has a gigantic ego, unable to accept any flaw on his half-baked game, giving nothing but lame excuses.

[AkiKishi]

Everwarden wrote...

MrTijger wrote...
I'd qualify that by saying 'if the profitability is better'. Taking nearly 5 years with, at one point, 180 people to make a game means you have to sell many many games to recoup the investment, taking one third of the time and people means you can settle for less sales and still have a higher profit and you can release 3 games in the same time span.

The problem is that they just cashed in their -one- free 'instant franchise buy' card, and it didn't pay off half as well as they expected*. If they released Dragon Age 3 a year from today and it continued down the same road DA2 went down, do you think it would break a million? I don't. I doubt it would break 500,000. Honestly, I think Blizzard has proven that making quality games (and yes, even if you don't like Blizzard or their games they all get a -ton- of polish) is a good way to go. 

*No. I know a fanboy is going to contest this point. Even if vgchartz is completely inaccurate, they still haven't come anywhere even removely close to the stated goal of 4.5 million, or even 2 million. 

Diminishing returns is what sunk Westwood.

[randName]

I'm not going to write off DA3 if Laidlaw is on it or not, but I've written of pre:ordering any BioWare game until they have managed to build enough trust with me again.

Just a bit melancholic that I've lost that trust in BioWare (again, as I did with NWN OC), as I could start looking forward to their games before the judgement was out, now I'll just have to wait and see in the future.

And they can repair that, be it that I'm only one out of the Millions of games they need to sell, even if I own several copies of some of their games ~ (but hardly enough to make an impact).


And this interview, or the other interviews aren't helping at all, rather it just shows the BioWare reps dancing around the criticism, either by calling it archaic, as in people wanting BG or DA:O2, or saying things that we should raise the difficulty to hard ~

Modifié par randName, 14 avril 2011 - 04:31 .

[MrTijger]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Diminishing returns is what sunk Westwood.

They were a one trick pony, Bioware isnt.

Bioware has 2 unique IP series and is working on an MMO with arguably the greatest franchise on earth. Westwood had C&C and while  runaway success they never came up with anything new after that worth mentioning.

[Blastback]

randName wrote...

I'm not going to write off DA3 if Laidlaw is on it or not, but I've written of pre:ordering any BioWare game until they have managed to build enough trust with me again.

Just a bit melancholic that I've lost that trust in BioWare (again, as I did with NWN OC), as I could start looking forward to their games before the judgement was out, now I'll just have to wait and see in the future.

And they can repair that, be it that I'm only one out of the Millions of games they need to sell, even if I own several copies of some of their games ~ (but hardly enough to make an impact).


And this interview, or the other interviews aren't helping at all, rather it just shows the BioWare reps dancing around the criticism, either by calling it archaic, as in people wanting BG or DA:O2, or saying things that we should raise the difficulty to hard ~

Well put.  I do think that DA2 was a fun game, but ultimatly I was unsatisfied both with the gameplay and the storytelling.  If I could, I'd go back and wait for the game to go down in price before buying. 

[Davasar]

Guys...get it through your heads:

They do not care about their core fans. They told us to F**K off long before the game released (in a nice way I suppose, but they still did it).

If you think that they actually are going to turn around and care about their core audience, you are going to be woefully disillusioned.

Just look at what was said about their "new fans". Do you think for one moment that with the kind of attitude they have (full of hubris, delusional or flat out lying), that they will suddenly 'see the light' and make a game for their core audience again?

They can SAY this sort of thing all they want.

But until they talk the talk and walk the walk, I am advising we all with hold our money until they prove they can cater to the core fans again.

[Pedrak]

Three things.

1) If DA2 sold faster than DAO, it is more DAO's merit than DA2's. Preorders have been 400.000, IIRC, and they were based on Bio's reputation and on DAO's strength. 

2) BioWare doesn't HAVE TO please us old school fans. It's nice when they do, but, frankly, they are running a business, and if - say - a shorter game with full voice acting is going to be more profitable than a much longer game with more dialogue choices but with partial VA, why wouldn't they do it? Let's be realistic, people.

3) Re: disappointment. While most of the flaws people found in DA2 are subjective and debatable, I'd say some things (ex. the reused areas) could be classified as objectively weak. So it's not all a matter of expectations. And I say this as someone who, overall, enjoys the game.

Modifié par Pedrak, 14 avril 2011 - 05:05 .

[FabianGrey]

I hate how they try to spin it like: "Oh yeah, some of the core die-hard fans that expected baldur's gate were disappointed, but the vast majority thought it was a 90-100"

You can only take the power of positive thinking so far...

[Frybread76]

Pedrak wrote...

Three things.

1) If DA2 sold faster than DAO, it is more DAO's merit than DA2's. Preorders have been 400.000, IIRC, and they were based on Bio's reputation and on DAO's strength. 

2) BioWare doesn't HAVE TO please us old school fans. It's nice when they do, but, frankly, they are running a business, and if - say - a shorter game with full voice acting is going to be more profitable than a much longer game with more dialogue choices but with partial VA, why wouldn't they do it? Let's be realistic, people.

3) Re: disappointment. While most of the flaws people found in DA2 are subjective and debatable, I'd say some things (ex. the reused areas) could be classified as objectively weak. So it's not all a matter of expectations. And I say this as someone who, overall, enjoys the game.

Yes, this is a business, and Bioware will see that DA2 is not going to meet expectations.  You fanboys who keep pointing to the benchmark of 1 million sold miss this point.

And most of DA2's flaws are not subjective and debatable.  But, as a fanboy, you can't see this, so it's no use arguing with you on this.

[nopho]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...
But much of DA2's success was in the first week, which means it sold off the popularity of DA:O.  I don't expect DA3 to have that soom boost from DA2.

If DA3 comes sooner rather than later I'm expecting a quick cash in before lights out.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[Blastback]

nopho wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...
But much of DA2's success was in the first week, which means it sold off the popularity of DA:O.  I don't expect DA3 to have that soom boost from DA2.

If DA3 comes sooner rather than later I'm expecting a quick cash in before lights out.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice watch it, I'm huge!

Fixed

[Big_Chief]

 You know, there's one question that I wish someone would ask because the more I think about it, the more baffled I become. Why was there this driving need to appeal to a wider audience when, as far as I'm aware, Origins was Bioware's best selling game ever. I'm not even really asking this as someone who hates DA2 - I felt there was a lot that they got right with that game, though there was a lot that went wrong too. It's just that they did seem to appeal to a wider audience with Origins, and then seemingly went back to reinvent the wheel.

[Pedrak]

Frybread76 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Three things.

1) If DA2 sold faster than DAO, it is more DAO's merit than DA2's. Preorders have been 400.000, IIRC, and they were based on Bio's reputation and on DAO's strength. 

2) BioWare doesn't HAVE TO please us old school fans. It's nice when they do, but, frankly, they are running a business, and if - say - a shorter game with full voice acting is going to be more profitable than a much longer game with more dialogue choices but with partial VA, why wouldn't they do it? Let's be realistic, people.

3) Re: disappointment. While most of the flaws people found in DA2 are subjective and debatable, I'd say some things (ex. the reused areas) could be classified as objectively weak. So it's not all a matter of expectations. And I say this as someone who, overall, enjoys the game.

Yes, this is a business, and Bioware will see that DA2 is not going to meet expectations.  You fanboys who keep pointing to the benchmark of 1 million sold miss this point.

And most of DA2's flaws are not subjective and debatable.  But, as a fanboy, you can't see this, so it's no use arguing with you on this.

Fanboy?

You really have no idea of who I am or of what my tastes are. I am probably one of the least fanboy-ish people you'll ever meet on the web.

Oh, and do your homework. A fanboy would never, ever admit that a game he supports has any flaw. Nor would he say that a game he supports sold because of its prequel's strength. Have you even read my post? You're really barking up the wrong tree, man.

For the record, I thought DA2 was Bio's weakest since JE, and their third worst game after NWN OC and JE. But I don't like hyperboles (good or bad) and knee-jerk reactions and "worst game evah!" shticks. It wasn't great and it wasn't crap. I disliked some changes, but I can't say that a voiced PC or the dialogue wheel were objectively bad. I can only say I don't approve them.

Modifié par Pedrak, 14 avril 2011 - 05:33 .

[Zaldrak84]

 People, what they say in interviews and what they really think are two different things

Of course they would say they are happy with DA2 and it's selling good, it's marketing, they can't and shouldn't say otherwise, or it would hurt sales.

But if the reception and sales of DA2 aren't what they expected (and there's a moderate chance they aren't), you can bet they will think twice before going the same route for DA3, no matter what they say in the interviews.

If, however, they are satisfied with the profits from DA2...well, the angry fanbase can scream all they want but it won't change anything.

[Swoo]

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...
Thanks I was looking for that, one thing that sticks out in muzykas response is how he says that DA2 sells faster, by now he must have seen the numbers showing that DA2 sales are dropping at an alarming rate, so why does he say that? to get more people to buy the game. Even the Dr.'s have been infected with the EA advertising virus.

It's possible the interview was done at a time he was telling the truth. DA2 did start out hotter than Origins, but it has quickly and easily fallen down since then. So at a certain time, wasn't full of it.

I like to give them the benefit of the doubt though unlike other Bioware talking heads.

Modifié par Swoo, 14 avril 2011 - 05:24 .

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Big_Chief wrote...
Why was there this driving need to appeal to a wider audience when, as far as I'm aware, Origins was Bioware's best selling game ever.

Because Call of Duty sold more copies than DA:O.

It is literally nothing more than that. That's why the 'We want CoD's playerbase' quotes, the hard drive towards dumbed down quests, storyline and dialogue, and the ramped up gore. And the ******.

[SoR82]

Same old lip service same old quotes give me a break. Ill give you a hint 3 of the main games retailers within the UK have had DA 2 within a month of release under £25 at one time or another... I wonder if thats why its selling?

If your core fans are so important how about not patronising them. The changes are not DA2s main problems. I could start yet another discourse about where they all stem from but why bother?

[randName]

SoR82 wrote...

Same old lip service same old quotes give me a break. Ill give you a hint 3 of the main games retailers within the UK have had DA 2 within a month of release under £25 at one time or another... I wonder if thats why its selling?

If your core fans are so important how about not patronising them. The changes are not DA2s main problems. I could start yet another discourse about where they all stem from but why bother?

Given that the critics just want DA:O or BG apparently and are blind to reality, and the future, as seen in the interviews, not starting any new threads might be just as good

[Phantom13NWN2]

Swoo wrote...

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...
Thanks I was looking for that, one thing that sticks out in muzykas response is how he says that DA2 sells faster, by now he must have seen the numbers showing that DA2 sales are dropping at an alarming rate, so why does he say that? to get more people to buy the game. Even the Dr.'s have been infected with the EA advertising virus.

It's possible the interview was done at a time he was telling the truth. DA2 did start out hotter than Origins, but it has quickly and easily fallen down since then. So at a certain time, wasn't full of it.

I like to give them the benefit of the doubt though unlike other Bioware talking heads.

Yes I would also like to give them the benefit of a doubt, they're of the hook, for now..

[jds1bio]

Thanks for the link. Interesting article.

The importance of core fans cannot be emphasized enough. Swell. But it's going to be a while before they get to dealing with that, with ME3 coming out (which has a fanbase much larger than just core RPG fans) and TOR, which really needs to get a whole new set of fans made up of current MMO fans and fans who are used to buying single-player gamers.

[Volourn]

"DA2 sold faster as he puts it if believed, simply because it's a sequal and initial sales were from the fanbase of DAO and Bioware in general not because it was an epic game better than any previous."

Youa re also forgetting the people who played DA1 and LOATHED it and therefore avoiding it at all costs. It ultimiately makes sense for a sequel to be so front loaded sales wise.


" now he must have seen the numbers showing that DA2 sales are dropping "

Numbers posted in a chart thatb is based on fantasy and guess work.

I also find it funny that people will blast laidlaw when ultimiately the responsibilty for BIO's games - all of them - are the docs since they are the bosses.


"Origins was Bioware's best selling game ever."

Nope. ME2 is.

Modifié par Volourn, 14 avril 2011 - 06:13 .

[Blastback]

Volourn wrote...

"DA2 sold faster as he puts it if believed, simply because it's a sequal and initial sales were from the fanbase of DAO and Bioware in general not because it was an epic game better than any previous."

Youa re also forgetting the people who played DA1 and LOATHED it and therefore avoiding it at all costs. It ultimiately makes sense for a sequel to be so front loaded sales wise.


" now he must have seen the numbers showing that DA2 sales are dropping "

Numbers posted in a chart thatb is based on fantasy and guess work.

I also find it funny that people will blast laidlaw when ultimiately the responsibilty for BIO's games - all of them - are the docs since they are the bosses.


"Origins was Bioware's best selling game ever."

Nope. ME2 is.

I think the docs get a pass for a couple of reasons.

One, they just acknoledged fan complaints validity a bit more than Laidlaw seems to have.

two, they have a long history of awesome games behind them. 

Three, one would assume laidlaw was more involved in DA2 day to day, being lead dev.

But they are ultimatly responsible for every Bioware product.