220 réponses à ce sujet

[bzombo]

JohnEpler wrote...

I've mentioned it before, and it bears mentioning again - feel free to disagree with others, but avoid the personal insults, and this includes developers.

Calling someone a cretin or a douche, whether they are an employee of BioWare or another community member, is completely unacceptable. If you are unable to express yourself without personal insults, then you will not be welcome on these forums anymore.

If I call myself a cretin, will you ban me for calling myself a cretin?

[scpulley]

Ugh...okay reading the bit in there about the DA 2 reaction made me sick to my stomach. Basically, they are saying they'd rather keep DA like it is rather than try to find a happy medium that doesn't ****** on the people that actually liked DAO the way it was. I guess that means DA 3 will be off my list of things to get. FYI, just because something works great in ME doesn't make it good for DA. You are going to have a totally different group of gamers that will go for a sci fi shooter and those that will play a more traditional fantasy RPG type game. Sadly I think they don't care as long as they have their money, and they make look at the feedback, but if the money says different all the negative feedback and backlash in the world won't matter.

[toggled]

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

*SIGH*

They just don't get it!!

Look, I can only speak for myself. I didn't expect DA2 to be an Origins clone. I was expecting an entirely different game (if DA2 was a clone of Origins, it wouldn't be a sequel, it would be an expansion, right?).

Bottom line, I was expecting a good solid game. I was expecting the legendary Bioware quality. Instead, I found a game with recycled content and dull combat. Sorry, Bioware, but DA2 is dull. Dull dull dull. And shallow. Let's not forget the shallow. There isn't anything "awesome" about DA2.

Modifié par toggled, 14 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[Korusus]

Et tu Ray and Greg? You have 2 more chances this year to improve my opinion of BioWare, which could not get much lower at this point.

I've seen this drama over and over again over the years, developers self-destructing themselves.  After DA2's bomb (and it is a bomb, I don't care if did sell "faster" than DA:O in its first 2 weeks, it will never outsell DA:O), BioWare better hope they've done a better job with SW:TOR.  Unlike us masochistic RPG fanatics which are starved for quality titles, the MMO crowd is brutal and unforgiving.  This should be a very interesting year for the industry and I can't wait to see what happens.  I'm very excited to see how Mass Effect 3 turns out.  I'm very excited to see how SW:TOR turns out.  And I'm very excited to see where BioWare's reputation ends up by January 1, 2012.

[jds1bio]

Korusus wrote...

Et tu Ray and Greg? You have 2 more chances this year to improve my opinion of BioWare, which could not get much lower at this point.

I've seen this drama over and over again over the years, developers self-destructing themselves.  After DA2's bomb (and it is a bomb, I don't care if did sell "faster" than DA:O in its first 2 weeks, it will never outsell DA:O), BioWare better hope they've done a better job with SW:TOR.  Unlike us masochistic RPG fanatics which are starved for quality titles, the MMO crowd is brutal and unforgiving.  This should be a very interesting year for the industry and I can't wait to see what happens.  I'm very excited to see how Mass Effect 3 turns out.  I'm very excited to see how SW:TOR turns out.  And I'm very excited to see where BioWare's reputation ends up by January 1, 2012.

The MMO crowd has already made its preferred product known, just like the mulitplayer shooter crowd, and the internet tablet crowd, and the portable music player crowd.  I'm not sure it will matter how "well" of a job people think they should do.

[Mrbananagrabber]

Thats awesome. The good doctor says A LOT of people were delighted while SOME didn't like SOME of the changes.

My prognostic? Denial-itis.

Modifié par Mrbananagrabber, 15 avril 2011 - 12:45 .

[NinjaCoopa]

"Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins" Well thats what happens when a new IP brushes with success and then the sequel comes out. Now, since people got a rushed, watered down experiment to try to expand the audience instead of getting a real "Dragon Age 2", I predict sales of Dragon Age 3 being somewhere between the sales of the first game and the second. UNLESS they acknowledge that DA 2 was a let down and gain their focus back with what they were trying to accomplish with the first game. what happens when you try to fix something that ain't broke? You break it. try your new social experiments on a new IP or something. Don't f with dragon age

[Morducai]

Sh!t is still sh!t even when you put a layer of whipped cream on top of it. I have no idea how those two guys, after playing through DA2, didn't march into the EA offices and outright said they are delaying the game by another year and they don't care what EA are saying.

Now to the ME1 point "We made the determination that the game we thought represented the franchise the best was Mass Effect 2. And we brought it over and are really happy with the result."
Why can't we just get a straight answer out of people anymore. Can't you just say that MS has the rights to that game (on consoles) and just be done with it without the PR BS?

[Trogloditius]

Hmmm... a lot of talk, but until I see a real successor to Origins or ME I won't believe it nor buy any of their games.

You know how Bioware could get some money from me? Get Greg and Ray to write a book on the history of Bioware and the reasoning that led them to sell the company to EA.

[tez19]

LOL, these 'traditional' fans really do get their knickers in a twist don't they??

[jds1bio]

Trogloditius wrote...

Hmmm... a lot of talk, but until I see a real successor to Origins or ME I won't believe it nor buy any of their games.

You know how Bioware could get some money from me? Get Greg and Ray to write a book on the history of Bioware and the reasoning that led them to sell the company to EA.

That could actually happen.  I'm sure that will end up being a real coffee table book at some point in the next 10 years.

[Dragoonlordz]

tez19 wrote...

LOL, these 'traditional' fans really do get their knickers in a twist don't they??

My IQ just dropped 70 points reading that comment. Please next time, either say something intelligent or nothing at all.

[Foolsfolly]

Muzyka: It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different.

I don't think BioWare knows what innovation and different means. Intense action, voiced protagonists, framed narrative....why, why, I've never heard of other video games with these things!

[devSin]

You know how Bioware could get some money from me? Get Greg and Ray to write a book on the history of Bioware and the reasoning that led them to sell the company to EA.

Just to note, they didn't sell to EA. They were purchased by a venture capital firm, whose primary purpose is to provide cash to a business or startup in order to help it grow so that it can later be sold for profit (lest you think it pure philanthropy or longterm investment). So they were owned by the firm, which sold them to EA (but EA's current CEO was already in charge, through the VC firm).

My pet theory, based on pure speculation, is that they burned through most of their Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights money on Dragon Age and The Old Republic (Dragon Age was self-funded and still didn't even have a publisher when EA bought them, and it seems that TOR has been in development too long for LucasArts to be paying well for it). After years of rapid growth (subsidized in part by the Canadian government), they were in a less advantageous financial position than might have been assumed after the success of the original Mass Effect (we'll just say Jade Empire broke even, if that). Having to struggle to figure out how you're going to pay all your employees every other week probably gets old after a while.

But again, that's total speculation. It's just as likely that maybe they just really wanted to have two Ferraris apiece instead of only one.

Modifié par devSin, 15 avril 2011 - 03:57 .

[inkjay]

The can spout whatever drivel they want. Unless their games prove it I don't believe them and won't buy them. Simple as that.

[slimgrin]

 Muzyka: "It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different. 

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future. "



In other words: the problem is with our fans, not the game.

*sigh*

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 avril 2011 - 03:53 .

[Otterwarden]

slimgrin wrote...

In other words: the problem is with our fans, not the game.

*sigh*

Ah, yes, they should be happy to know that we have a support group in place for those with the "mental block".

(Would attach a smiley icon, but that is not permitted in the group)

[Otterwarden]

Zaldrak84 wrote...

 People, what they say in interviews and what they really think are two different things

Of course they would say they are happy with DA2 and it's selling good, it's marketing, they can't and shouldn't say otherwise, or it would hurt sales.

But if the reception and sales of DA2 aren't what they expected (and there's a moderate chance they aren't), you can bet they will think twice before going the same route for DA3, no matter what they say in the interviews.

If, however, they are satisfied with the profits from DA2...well, the angry fanbase can scream all they want but it won't change anything.

Yes, as is damage control disguised as part of another product's build up marketing campaign.  It's kind of intimated here:

gamerant.com/bioware-speaks-dragon-age-2-fan-reaction-dyce-79537/

"But with the team’s latest Dragon Age 2, fan
reaction was both heated and polarized. Serious accusations have been
thrown around in the weeks since release, and the heads of BioWare have
now given their two cents on the debate, and taken the opportunity to
assure their fans that they have not been forgotten."

Might be that they are seriously worried that acquiring these new fans at the expense of their base may come back to bite them in ways they had not quite thought completely through.  My fear would be that this half-hearted attempt to reach out to them may end up falling flat, or worse yet be miscontrued.  After all, if you marginalize these critics by attempting to classify them as "some" being disappointed vs. "a lot" who sing your praises, they might just leave you to your new fans.

[AlanC9]

ejoslin wrote...
Another thing that will skew the data is that many people play through once or twice but played all the origins as well, so that may give you 2 full playthroughs, 4 only getting to Ostegar in their data.

Data is tracked by individual installation, and reaching Ostagar gives you a specific achievement for each origin, so players who played all the origins to completion would be quite obvious.

Sure, it's conceivable that Bio's people were idiots and didn't actually associate the data with individual installations when analyzing it. Do we have a reason to assume this?

[Merced652]

AlanC9 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Another thing that will skew the data is that many people play through once or twice but played all the origins as well, so that may give you 2 full playthroughs, 4 only getting to Ostegar in their data.

Data is tracked by individual installation, and reaching Ostagar gives you a specific achievement for each origin, so players who played all the origins to completion would be quite obvious.

Sure, it's conceivable that Bio's people were idiots and didn't actually associate the data with individual installations when analyzing it. Do we have a reason to assume this?

Yes we do have cause to assume, because its well known statistics can mean or indicate anything you want them to. Since bioware has a history of trashing original games in franchises to sell their sequels it seems entirely within reason to assume they misrepresented that data in order to mislead potential buyers. 

[skyrend]

The most alarming part of the interview was the fact that marketing (remember DA:O's awful campaign) actually collaborates on the design.

[AlanC9]

Please clarify, Merced. Are you saying they're lying to themselves? Did they lie to David Gaider about the statistics? Or is Gaider supposed to be in on it?

Edit: I'm referring to that notorious thread where Gaider spouted a few stats off the top of his head, mostly about how few players actually bothered playing a dwarf or elf. Is it your position that this apparently-casual post was actually part of a sinister Bio disinformation campaign?

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 avril 2011 - 05:18 .

[Merced652]

AlanC9 wrote...

Please clarify, Merced. Are you saying they're lying to themselves? Did they lie to David Gaider about the statistics? Or is Gaider supposed to be in on it?

I'm not claiming one way or the other. All i'm saying is that statistics themselves can indicate anything. He might have glanced at the metric and assumed what he conveyed, or it could've been a number that was adjusted or at least corss-referenced against other data. Did he say? No, even if he did we have cause to doubt, which is more or less what you asked for. 

[jds1bio]

skyrend wrote...

The most alarming part of the interview was the fact that marketing (remember DA:O's awful campaign) actually collaborates on the design.

I'm trying to conjure up a picture of this in my mind, but I can't.