220 réponses à ce sujet

[SoR82]

abaris wrote...

Sad Dragon wrote...

That time might come further down the line however.

- The Sad Dragon

I don't think so. We're talking about shareholder business, not some entrepeneurial spirits owning a gaming company. Owning up to mistakes is bad for the stock market. Hence the PR department works overtime on damage control and sends out some folks to issue meaningless lines about caring for the core fans.

Welll if Laidlaw et al are representative of the pr abilities of this company im in for some serious entertainment. Its getting to the stge of morbid curiosity now like a car crash.. .you dont really want  to look incase you see something you dont want to.... but you find your field of vision edging ever closer.

Telling your customers that if they dont like what he likes then they are stupid people is not good for business either. Please dont tell me that you cannot see this, whatever his answer is to whatever question it is there everytime. Reread his interviews if in doubt "I felt" "Personallly I didn't like" and so on and so forth.

[abaris]

SoR82 wrote...

Telling your customers that if they dont like what he likes then they are stupid people is not good for business either. Please dont tell me that you cannot see this, whatever his answer is to whatever question it is there everytime. Reread his interviews if in doubt "I felt" "Personallly I didn't like" and so on and so forth.

And yet here they are, the magic words no sane person would use without someone sweet talking in their ears:

"Streamlining", "being excited over...", "taking the opportunity to move things forward".

Let me take a page from Orwells book: That's PR speak at its purest. Using some meaningless yet grand sounding terms and put the in the executives mouth. Believe me, I'm at this game since 1990 and if some corporate executive starts to speak in tongues, there's usually some highly paid PR suit lurking in the shadows.

Modifié par abaris, 18 avril 2011 - 05:13 .

[Dracotamer]

I said this elsewhere, but I will say it here as well...

Well DA2 sales are plummeting, so hopefully Bioware will realize that it's core fan base has the power to make or break their sales simply with word of mouth and will put Mike Laidlaw on a leash until he learns tact and respect for Bioware's fans.

[clipped_wolf]

"Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins. It’s probably part because it’s drawing a lot of new fans in."

It could also be that a lot of your old fans had trust in you and pre-ordered the game.   And many are now disappointed and bitter.

[Otterwarden]

abaris wrote...
Believe me, I'm at this game since 1990 and if some corporate executive starts to speak in tongues, there's usually some highly paid PR suit lurking in the shadows.

"Speak in tongues"... PRICELESS!!...:lol:

[Maverick827]

Dracotamer wrote...

I said this elsewhere, but I will say it here as well...

Well DA2 sales are plummeting, so hopefully Bioware will realize that it's core fan base has the power to make or break their sales simply with word of mouth and will put Mike Laidlaw on a leash until he learns tact and respect for Bioware's fans.

I'm a BioWare fan, and I don't feel like I have been disrespected by anyone from the BioWare team.

Q.E.D.?

[Volourn]

You earn respect, and you don't earn it by bashing someone peersonally and demanding they get fired just because they didn't service you and only you.

But, hey, i guess I should have demanded the person who made S;RPG be fired too since it wasn't my cup of tea.

R00fles!

P.S. There is no such thing as a 'BIO fan'. That's a myth. There is no such thing as 'game devloper 'fan'.

[Whisky]

Core fans are so important that he did his best to let them down and attract new fans instead.
Seriously, had he admitted that his goal was the new fans, it would have sounded better.

[Otterwarden]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Yes, and add the fact that aside from the forked tongue responses from official reps (Muzyka included), the sales facts belie their million sales figures as no more than hype when they only include the first two weeks as some indicator of popularity. If going by week six sales figures, relatively speaking, Origins on just the Xbox360 outsold DA2 on all platforms combined. Maybe the intitials for PR shoud represent "Publisher Rhetoric"

Despite the attempts of trolls to furiously spin this into a financial success, the trend of the sales graph is clearly telegraphing the opposite. The lines that rang most true for me in that Publisher's Rhetoric were "I can't emphasize that enough. They helped get us to where we are today."

Yes, we did... and we are still here, so stop treating us like we're in Valhalla!!

Edit:  Took it out of the reviews thread because it fits better here.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 21 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[Poleaxe]

It's not unreasonable to call for Laidlaw's head. He's the lead designer of a AAA title. It's pretty much the same as calling for a different director to work on a movie franchise.  I don't believe Laidlaw's going to be the lead for DA3. His brand is tarnished and probably bad for sales at this point.

For the record, I enjoyed DA2 and would probably give it a 7 or 8. So no, I'm not a hater.

[Dragoonlordz]

I want someone in an interview to ask Greg and Ray why they said half the things that got implemented in DA2 wouldn't work in DA franchise at all during DAO promoting (that they already tested/tried this before saying it wouldn't work according to them)... Then implementing them anyway.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2011 - 01:20 .

[neppakyo]

Poleaxe wrote...

It's not unreasonable to call for Laidlaw's head. He's the lead designer of a AAA title. It's pretty much the same as calling for a different director to work on a movie franchise.  I don't believe Laidlaw's going to be the lead for DA3. His brand is tarnished and probably bad for sales at this point.

For the record, I enjoyed DA2 and would probably give it a 7 or 8. So no, I'm not a hater.

Laidlaw has been branded the Joel Schumacher of the DA franchise.

The horrible Batman Forever movie, comical fights in it as well, and decieded to put nipples on batman's armour.

So with that label is another black mark against him, and a lot of people won't consider buying another DA game if he's involved.

[Maverick827]

neppakyo wrote...

Laidlaw has been branded the Joel Schumacher of the DA franchise.

The horrible Batman Forever movie, comical fights in it as well, and decieded to put nipples on batman's armour.

I can't tell if you're likening Mike to Joel Schumacher because you hold an odd grudge against Batman Forever - and thus against Schumacher - paralleling your odd grudge against Dragon Age II - and thus against Mike - or because Warner Bros. decidedly hired Schumacher to change the tone of the series because Tim Burton's versions were considered too dark, thus paralleling the common thought that EA is evil and forced BioWare to change the Dragon Age series because they were too inaccessible to most gamers.

I'm not sure if I give you enough credit for the latter, to be honest.

Does that make Jade Empire St. Elmo's Fire or The Lost Boys?

[Gatt9]

abaris wrote...

SoR82 wrote...

Telling your customers that if they dont like what he likes then they are stupid people is not good for business either. Please dont tell me that you cannot see this, whatever his answer is to whatever question it is there everytime. Reread his interviews if in doubt "I felt" "Personallly I didn't like" and so on and so forth.

And yet here they are, the magic words no sane person would use without someone sweet talking in their ears:

"Streamlining", "being excited over...", "taking the opportunity to move things forward".

Let me take a page from Orwells book: That's PR speak at its purest. Using some meaningless yet grand sounding terms and put the in the executives mouth. Believe me, I'm at this game since 1990 and if some corporate executive starts to speak in tongues, there's usually some highly paid PR suit lurking in the shadows.

It's more "Arguing from a position of authority",  it's psychological tactics.  Originally pioneered by Ralph somethingorother for Everquest in the early 00's.

Minimize the competition by acting as if they are a "Small group" no matter their size,  and attribute to them some negative social stigma (You're too old!  You won't change!).  Then use your position,  and abstract terms in order to make it sound like you're in possession of some monumental knowledge (It's evolution!,  it's more immersive!,  we removed redundancies!,  those things don't do anything!,  the (undefined) market wants this!).  Then,  make absolutely certain to ignore all of the arguements that contradict what you've said.

It's community manipulation,  nothing more.  Bethseda's doing the same thing as Todd tries desperately to justify removing yet more RPG elements from Skyrim.

What's amazing is that neither studio has figured out that all they're doing is ticking off the fans.  Fans see through the PR and manipuatlions really fast today.

Laidlaw has been branded the Joel Schumacher of the DA franchise.

The horrible Batman Forever movie, comical fights in it as well, and decieded to put nipples on batman's armour.

So with that label is another black mark against him, and a lot of people won't consider buying another DA game if he's involved.

I won't buy if the game has any of Laidlaw or Gaider's "Improvements" in it.  Everything I've read is arrogant hubris that I find highly offensive,  and just indicates to me that neither one wants to be making RPGs.

[neppakyo]

Maverick827 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Laidlaw has been branded the Joel Schumacher of the DA franchise.

The horrible Batman Forever movie, comical fights in it as well, and decieded to put nipples on batman's armour.

I can't tell if you're likening Mike to Joel Schumacher because you hold an odd grudge against Batman Forever - and thus against Schumacher - paralleling your odd grudge against Dragon Age II - and thus against Mike - or because Warner Bros. decidedly hired Schumacher to change the tone of the series because Tim Burton's versions were considered too dark, thus paralleling the common thought that EA is evil and forced BioWare to change the Dragon Age series because they were too inaccessible to most gamers.

I'm not sure if I give you enough credit for the latter, to be honest.

Does that make Jade Empire St. Elmo's Fire or The Lost Boys?

Probably. I wasnt the one who made the comparison, but thought it amusing and sort of in context.

But I do think it was silly to put nipples on batmans armour.

[Euno17]

Warheadz wrote...

Looking back at Dragon Age II, there was some fan disappointment with certain aspects of the game. Is there anything behind the scenes that you think contributed to that and are there any big changes in store for the next installment?

Muzyka: "It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different.

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

We’ve actually attracted a lot of new people to the franchise. Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins. It’s probably part because it’s drawing a lot of new fans in. And that’s exciting to us. But our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that enough. They helped get us to where we are today. They’re the core of what we do, and we want to make sure we’re making games that satisfy them."

They don't say at any point or even imply that they acknowledge the game's shortcomings. They just say that yeah, core fans are important, but we got new fans with DA2 and it's selling faster than Origins! Yay!

I don't believe that they will really make what the "core fans" want.

This^. The most important line in the entire interview is when they say: 'Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins.' They even have an added 'kick in the groin' statement when they say, 'It's probably part because it's drawing a lot of new fans in.'

EA cares only for money so - you can expect more 'stream-lining' and 'awesome button' so they can make a quick buck.

[neppakyo]

So basically we're going to see Bioware become the next Westwood Studios?

*ducks and hides*

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Laidlaw has been branded the Joel Schumacher of the DA franchise.

The horrible Batman Forever movie, comical fights in it as well, and decieded to put nipples on batman's armour.

I can't tell if you're likening Mike to Joel Schumacher because you hold an odd grudge against Batman Forever - and thus against Schumacher - paralleling your odd grudge against Dragon Age II - and thus against Mike - or because Warner Bros. decidedly hired Schumacher to change the tone of the series because Tim Burton's versions were considered too dark, thus paralleling the common thought that EA is evil and forced BioWare to change the Dragon Age series because they were too inaccessible to most gamers.

I'm not sure if I give you enough credit for the latter, to be honest.

Does that make Jade Empire St. Elmo's Fire or The Lost Boys?

Probably. I wasnt the one who made the comparison, but thought it amusing and sort of in context.

But I do think it was silly to put nipples on batmans armour.

Just FYI, Nep is quoting me. As Schumacher's Batman became 90210 on steroids and Gotham became a cheesy half and half of Las Vegas and the orginal Gotham from the comics with lots of colorful neon lights. As Shale would say, "Oh, shiney!" Like DA2, it tried to serve two different masters and failed both. Let's just hope BioWare is smarter and they don't let Laidlaw do DA3 like the movie industry had Schumacher do a second Batman movie.

As to Jade Empire. I don't know. I have only seen pictures. And I have never seen anyone say anything bad about it actually. I take it is more Mr. Laidlaw's style and from what I can tell it is a good game. So, from what little I know...Lost Boys (one of my favorites).  

Like DAO, I preferred the orginal Batman (I loved Burton's Batman, it was more like the comic). As for DA2...movie wise...it's more like Amatuer Night at the Dixie Bar and Grill.

[neppakyo]

erynnar wrote...

Just FYI, Nep is quoting me. As Schumacher's Batman became 90210 on steroids and Gotham became a cheesy half and half of Las Vegas and the orginal Gotham from the comics with lots of colorful neon lights. As Shale would say, "Oh, shiney!" Like DA2, it tried to serve two different masters and failed both. Let's just hope BioWare is smarter and they don't let Laidlaw do DA3 like the movie industry had Schumacher do a second Batman movie.

As to Jade Empire. I don't know. I have only seen pictures. And I have never seen anyone say anything bad about it actually. I take it is more Mr. Laidlaw's style and from what I can tell it is a good game. So, from what little I know...Lost Boys (one of my favorites).  

Like DAO, I preferred the orginal Batman (I loved Burton's Batman, it was more like the comic). As for DA2...movie wise...it's more like Amatuer Night at the Dixie Bar and Grill.

Oh ya, you said it lol.

Or more like Night at the Roxbury? 

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Just FYI, Nep is quoting me. As Schumacher's Batman became 90210 on steroids and Gotham became a cheesy half and half of Las Vegas and the orginal Gotham from the comics with lots of colorful neon lights. As Shale would say, "Oh, shiney!" Like DA2, it tried to serve two different masters and failed both. Let's just hope BioWare is smarter and they don't let Laidlaw do DA3 like the movie industry had Schumacher do a second Batman movie.

As to Jade Empire. I don't know. I have only seen pictures. And I have never seen anyone say anything bad about it actually. I take it  it's more Mr. Laidlaw's style and from what I can tell it is a good game. So, from what little I know...Lost Boys (one of my favorites).  

Like DAO, I preferred the orginal Batman (I loved Burton's Batman, it was more like the comic). As for DA2...movie wise...it's more like Amatuer Night at the Dixie Bar and Grill.

Oh ya, you said it lol.

Or more like Night at the Roxbury? 

*does sideways head bounce and breaks the thread window*  Aw, not again!!!

[Otterwarden]

erynnar wrote...

As to Jade Empire. I don't know. I have only seen pictures. And I have never seen anyone say anything bad about it actually. I take it is more Mr. Laidlaw's style and from what I can tell it is a good game. So, from what little I know...Lost Boys (one of my favorites).  

I played it, it was fun.  Never thought of it as an RPG really, but it had nice rhythm and a uniqueness of its own.  My experience with it was absolutely no connection to the character, however, it didn't really seem that I was supposed to.  Just a fun action Kung Fu game.