966 réponses à ce sujet

[Gatt9]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Haha, this guy doesn't give up. I just love his play it on hard comment. What a way to flick off your original fan base.

Generally speaking,  it's usually a sign of toeing the company line. 

Usually when a game releases in a state like this,  it's due to some company pushing it out the door.  Generally,  when a game makes a massive switch in style,  it's also due to company mandate.  Someone has to be the face guy,  and usually it's job security to state you did everything right,  it's better than anything else ever,  and shift blame to what you assume to be a small group of upset customers.

Usually,  it also backfires,  as you note it alienates fans.  This did not end well for Star Wars Galaxies,  Asheron's Call 2,  or several other more recent titles,  I doubt it'll end well here either.

[Tommy6860]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

Why isnt this trash mob thread locked yet? Dead Ass I feel sorry for Mr. Mike because he has to constantly get bashed in the head with old peoples canes. Mike if you read this keep up the good work my dude me and a lot of other people love Dragon Age 2 more than that one and done game DAO. I can play DA 2 3 times straight if I had the time where as I can only play DAO once. Just start making killer games for consoles Mr. Mike and all these old haggard P.C. players will move on and allow us DA 2 lovers peace.

If you want peace, create a DA2 console friendly thread and see how many actually participate in it with the expectations you want.. Is it so bad bad that certain platformers have their expectations and their prefercenes? I remember reading the very same criticisms from the console crowd regarding Origins. If it hurts your eyes so badly to read these posts, then don't read, as one of my favorite latin writers of maxims once said, "The eyes are not responsible for what the mind sees." (Publilius Syrus)

Modifié par Tommy6860, 15 avril 2011 - 01:51 .

[GammaRayJim]

Miashi wrote...

You don't have to register the game key on the site to play it - I played the xbox version for a bit until I actually registered my game on the site.

edit: actually I only registered it because it allowed me to post on game owner forums - otherwise I had access to all my dlc content since my xbox360 tag is attached to this account.

Yeah I am aware of that but he clearly stated that he could only play DAO once and yet he has five playthrough characters in his profile. And no DA2 which he could have played but after seeing the first misnomer perhaps the rest follows.

[Chromie]

MSUHitman wrote...

Problem is people like me with ancient PC's can't play The Witcher. I'm sitting on a copy of The Witcher Enhanced Edition I got for $20 at Walmart and I can't play that (my PC was originally built from scratch in Sept. 03.)

Someday when I get a more modern PC I'll be able to play the 2 Witcher games but in the meantime I will have to be satisfied with what Bioware does, no matter how buggy it is.

That really is a shame. The Witcher 1 is such a unique rpg. Dragon Age is supposed to be dark fantasy, doesn't feel like it to me. Witcher 1 is dark, gritty and you never choose black and white decisions it's always shades of grey or the lesser of two evils. The consequences of your actions appear later in the game so you know hardly find yourself saving and reloading and can be truly shocked to see how your actions played out.

Witcher 2 is going to show Bioware how an RPG can be created given enough time and dedication. Also for the people who hate that it's one character and race deal with it. The game is based off a book series You get a cast of characters, world and story that is just much more darker and mature then anything Bioware has done since Baldur's Gate frankly.

[Otterwarden]

jds1bio wrote...

But he's right, some critics can't cope with change.  Some can only frame things in terms of Call-Of-Duty or World-Of-Warcraft.  Some can only give each game the same exact amount of playtime before calling it a review.  Some go out of their way to echo (and then spar with afterwards) their own comment forums just to get more hits.  And I think the older the critic, the worse it seems. Too many life changes in the span of 5 or 10 years can make you long for some constants in your life, and what better place to look for constancy than one of your favorite things - videogaming.  Except videogaming (and the demographic that participates) has always been fluid, not a set-in-stone solid.

And some can only see this as old players unable to let go with what they know...

This forum has been replete with very specific criticisms that give robust arguments for why DA2 failed to satisfy and yet, in certain eyes, it always boils down to the old guard's inability to move on from BG. 

[Boiny Bunny]

In games that offer the choice, I prefer to play both genders, usually starting with a coin toss to decide my first playthrough. I do this because I like to see the world from all perspectives. If I can play as different species, I will inevitably play a separate playthough as all of them (provided the world treats you slightly differently for each choice).

Being able to play 2 genders, or different species, generally allows you to gain more insight into the world and the way it works. In Bioware games, females are equal to males in every respect. Physically, mentally, spiritually, and mostly, socially. This means that other than romances within your party, there isn't actually much of a difference in playing a male and a female.

The Witcher portrays a much darker world, which is probably a little more truthful to medieval Europe. Females are treated as sub-class citizens. They are constantly beaten and raped, cannot walk the streets at night, only appear to work in low class jobs or in servitude to males, and generally do not get involved in conflicts (there are a few notable females who are warriors, mostly elves though). But then you have Triss, and other female sorceresses, who wield considerable power.

I think playing a female in the world of The Witcher would be a far more interesting experience - but in order to not break their own lore and wreck the immersion of the world, if you were playing a female, you would probably have to be a sorceress.

More than that though, the Witcher is focused on the story of Geralt. Restricting all choice of character does take some things away from the game, but it also adds to it.

It just means that the developers put all their focus on one branch of a tree rather than a few thinner branches.

[thatbwoyblu]

GammaRayJim wrote...


Wow but you have no DA2 game registered and you have 5 playthroughs of DA:O on your profile. 

But i only finished 1 playthrough. I got 5 characters because i wanted to get my achuevements up at the time that i was playing da 0.

[GammaRayJim]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...


Wow but you have no DA2 game registered and you have 5 playthroughs of DA:O on your profile. 

But i only finished 1 playthrough. I got 5 characters because i wanted to get my achuevements up at the time that i was playing da 0.

Fair enough but just so you know I play on console PS3 and I am 47 years old and I am not pleased with the changes that occurred. But seeing that you play for achievements it makes sense that DA2 would be more to your liking. I play for the story and RPG elements that unfortunately were removed from the game. This game plays more like God of War which I loved btw and not as an RPG. Just my opinion.

[Otterwarden]

In DA:O I never looked at my achievements. In ME2 I ended up getting them all. Not sure why?

Modifié par Otterwarden, 15 avril 2011 - 02:11 .

[jds1bio]

Otterwarden wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

But he's right, some critics can't cope with change.  Some can only frame things in terms of Call-Of-Duty or World-Of-Warcraft.  Some can only give each game the same exact amount of playtime before calling it a review.  Some go out of their way to echo (and then spar with afterwards) their own comment forums just to get more hits.  And I think the older the critic, the worse it seems. Too many life changes in the span of 5 or 10 years can make you long for some constants in your life, and what better place to look for constancy than one of your favorite things - videogaming.  Except videogaming (and the demographic that participates) has always been fluid, not a set-in-stone solid.

And some can only see this as old players unable to let go with what they know...

This forum has been replete with very specific criticisms that give robust arguments for why DA2 failed to satisfy and yet, in certain eyes, it always boils down to the old guard's inability to move on from BG. 

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I think this, but I don't.  I see part of it as more a function of "there used to be a lot less people involved in videogames, how can what the new people think be as valid as what i think".

And you're right about the forum.  I've made some critical threads myself, and others have brought up some interesting angles which I've enjoyed reading.

[Melca36]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

Why isnt this trash mob thread locked yet? Dead Ass I feel sorry for Mr. Mike because he has to constantly get bashed in the head with old peoples canes. Mike if you read this keep up the good work my dude me and a lot of other people love Dragon Age 2 more than that one and done game DAO. I can play DA 2 3 times straight if I had the time where as I can only play DAO once. Just start making killer games for consoles Mr. Mike and all these old haggard P.C. players will move on and allow us DA 2 lovers peace.

Got news for you...PC Gaming will NEVER die. GET USED TO IT!

I didn't hate DA:2 but they pandered and catered too much to shallow gamers like yourself who only want quick instant gratification and want everything handed to them and they are going to pay the price for it.

[The Angry One]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

The Witcher portrays a much darker world, which is probably a little more truthful to medieval Europe. Females are treated as sub-class citizens. They are constantly beaten and raped, cannot walk the streets at night, only appear to work in low class jobs or in servitude to males, and generally do not get involved in conflicts (there are a few notable females who are warriors, mostly elves though). But then you have Triss, and other female sorceresses, who wield considerable power.

Yes well, frankly the Witcher revels in it's objectification of women a little too much. Yes I mean the stupid card thing. No I will never let that go.
And while some call fantasy settings aping medieval Europe down to the misogyny "gritty", I call it boring. There's already a flood of games where you play the buff male hero anyway. I for one am no longer in a position to care about them.

Modifié par The Angry One, 15 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[Melca36]

GammaRayJim wrote...

thatbwoyblu wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...


Wow but you have no DA2 game registered and you have 5 playthroughs of DA:O on your profile. 

But i only finished 1 playthrough. I got 5 characters because i wanted to get my achuevements up at the time that i was playing da 0.

Fair enough but just so you know I play on console PS3 and I am 47 years old and I am not pleased with the changes that occurred. But seeing that you play for achievements it makes sense that DA2 would be more to your liking. I play for the story and RPG elements that unfortunately were removed from the game. This game plays more like God of War which I loved btw and not as an RPG. Just my opinion.

 Alot of younger gamers can't seem to accept the fact there are far more older gamers buying games and playing then there was 10 years ago.

Gamers 35 and up are growing demographic as our women gamers.  It bothers the youngsters.

[Firky]

mrcrusty wrote...

Also Firky,

http://www.videogame...iew-1346-2.html

Maybe plans changed between this interview and your one (then changed again), but it seems to be clear here at least, that a console release was being planned for.

Obviously, BK is Brent Knowles, who was the Lead Designer at the time of the interview. October, 2008.

Thanks for link. That's an interesting one.

Edit: Btw, I guess maybe my point should be .... even though I'd swear, based on my experience and special insight, that ML had heaps to do with the development of DA:O, it is all guesswork in the end. (I did come into this thread because I was going grrr about people claiming to know stuff.) I am a stickler for proof, though, me.

Modifié par Firky, 15 avril 2011 - 02:19 .

[Canadish]

*sigh*
Wrong lead developer placed in charge.
Lead Developer does not understand/care about the established fan base.
Produces reviled product.
Destroys Bioware's thus far perfect reputation.
Insists his game is awesome and that its the fans fault for not understanding his genius.

Typical PR bull****.
So remember folks. The bugs, repeated dungeons, lackluster acting, broken fuzzy combat, lack of variety and ludicrous lightsaber end battle is all the FANS fault.
Not the Developers. Not the Greedy publisher who pushed it out the door. Not the Slimeball Lead Developer.

I'll stick to the Witcher for my fantasy RPG fix in future. Those guys don't treat their customers like ****.

[Boiny Bunny]

The Angry One wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

The Witcher portrays a much darker world, which is probably a little more truthful to medieval Europe. Females are treated as sub-class citizens. They are constantly beaten and raped, cannot walk the streets at night, only appear to work in low class jobs or in servitude to males, and generally do not get involved in conflicts (there are a few notable females who are warriors, mostly elves though). But then you have Triss, and other female sorceresses, who wield considerable power.

Yes well, frankly the Witcher revels in it's objectification of women a little too much. Yes I mean the stupid card thing. No I will never let that go.
And while some call fantasy settings aping medieval Europe down to the misogyny "gritty", I call it boring. There's already a flood of games where you play the buff male hero anyway. I for one am no longer in a position to care about them.

I'm inclined to agree that it was a little over-done in the Witcher.  I felt like you saved a few too many dasmels in distress (usually from being raped, or burned alive for witchcraft, etc.)

But I didn't really think Geralt was a typical 'buff male hero'.  More of the 'dark broody' type.  I liked the fact that most of the people in the game thought he was a freak and stayed away from him as opposed to reveling in his manliness and heroics.

As for the card thing, I didn't mind that personally.  It was just another attempt at an 'artistic' sex scene without showing much.  The actual 'collecting' element was unnecessary though - the game could certainly do without that.

Perhaps it would be more appropriate if they showed a card with semi-naked Geralt and the woman on it doing something sexual.  The cards could show a little nudity, but not so much that it lost its artistic value.

At any rate, though it was a little crude and could be improved, to me, card > screen black out then both characters grinning (like DA2).

[Otterwarden]

jds1bio wrote...

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I think this, but I don't.  I see part of it as more a function of "there used to be a lot less people involved in videogames, how can what the new people think be as valid as what i think".

And you're right about the forum.  I've made some critical threads myself, and others have brought up some interesting angles which I've enjoyed reading.

When the "new people" are ported over from other genres and start threads like "Why are you so upset that DA3 will have multiplayer?" it is easy to understand why those who are committed to keeping any semblance of an RPG gameplay style may not be particularly accomodating to what many of these new players think.  Traditionally, those who wanted to play an RPG had to adapt to the complexities that were found in these games.  Today, it is the larger market that dictates how the game is developed.

[Otterwarden]

Canadish wrote...

*sigh*
Wrong lead developer placed in charge.
Lead Developer does not understand/care about the established fan base.

Lead Developer thinks RPG is a "rocket propelled grenade"

[Foolsfolly]

The "prominent antagonist" is a staple of fantasy, be it the brooding eye of Sauron or the endless hordes of the archdemon.

Isn't a prominent antagonist kind of a staple in any fiction and particularly in video games and movies? It's not like to have a primary antagonist means it has to be some evil dark lord. I hate when Mike's in his PR mode, which it seems like he'll always be until DA3 is announced. Then we'll hear about how "We had this great character in Meredith but DA2 never really allowed her to grow as a character. So this time around Character X is prominent and has a strong central arc that helps shape and even mirror the playable character. It's really fantastic."

I mean look at how much the guy's bad talked Origins in these things.

[jds1bio]

Canadish wrote...

I'll stick to the Witcher for my fantasy RPG fix in future. Those guys don't treat their customers like ****.

You know they'll have securom DRM for the install, right?  Some may not be ok with this.

[Boiny Bunny]

jds1bio wrote...

Canadish wrote...

I'll stick to the Witcher for my fantasy RPG fix in future. Those guys don't treat their customers like ****.

You know they'll have securom DRM for the install, right?  Some may not be ok with this.

Can't remember the source, but the devs already confirmed no DRM.  Well, as at a few months ago anyway.

[Otterwarden]

jds1bio wrote...

Canadish wrote...

I'll stick to the Witcher for my fantasy RPG fix in future. Those guys don't treat their customers like ****.

You know they'll have securom DRM for the install, right?  Some may not be ok with this.

Disappointing for sure, but those can get it securom free off of Gog.com

Edit:  www.newgamenetwork.com/news/2569/witcher-2-to-include-securom-drm/

It's dated April 14th

Modifié par Otterwarden, 15 avril 2011 - 02:35 .

[srieser]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

Canadish wrote...

I'll stick to the Witcher for my fantasy RPG fix in future. Those guys don't treat their customers like ****.

You know they'll have securom DRM for the install, right?  Some may not be ok with this.

Can't remember the source, but the devs already confirmed no DRM.  Well, as at a few months ago anyway.

The only version of Witcher 2 that will NOT have any DRM is the GOG download version. All other versions will use Securom or Steam. It was confirmed today during their facebook presentation.

[Boiny Bunny]

^ Ah ok, thanks for the info. That sucks.

EDIT: To add to that (off news site):

"CD Projekt has confirmed that The Witcher 2 will in fact use SecuROM for its retail release DRM. The developers noted that the DRM will still allow for unlimited installations on an unlimited number of computers, with ability to play on up to five computers at once. The game also requires an internet connection for the initial activation."

Unlimited installations at least! 

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 15 avril 2011 - 02:40 .

[iampool]

Well i wouldn't expect anything else from him, especially when DA2 is only a month old, he won't trash his new puppy right now, but still it amazes me how much he trashes DAO continually.