966 réponses à ce sujet

[Wrathra]

Dubya75 wrote...

Well, if the combat is too much for you why not lower your difficulty level? Isn't the high difficulty levels all about having a challenge in combat? Now you have that in DA2 with waves of enemies and you complain?
And how exactly does combat "interrupt" anything? Does it interrupt your Sunday afternoon stroll through Lowtown? I just don't get it.

My 2 cents, FWIW:

I played on hard.  What combat boiled down to most of the time was spamming AOE abilities to get rid of the myriad of mobs that spawned out of thin air and fell out of ceiling.  It wasn't "hard" as in challenging, it was dumb and infuriating.

And on top of it, it made no sense and ruined immersion. There are more bandits, imposter guards, and slavers in Kirkwall than there are citizens.  What few citizens there are just wander through the line of fire while three mages are throwing around tempests and firestorms, and my party is being ignored by templars, guards are anyone else. Even Ser Wesley and Leandra had the sense to run away when the fighting started, and  BG2 had a mechanic where you couldn't cast spells unmolested by the Cowled Wizards until you completed a quest.  DA2 was sloppy.

For ****s and giggles I tried a fight or two with my rogue on normal and on easy and made people explode by charging into them. Seriously? 

This is a Bioware RPG, there is more to them than combat, their stories and characters are usually what make them. 

Laidlaw has to stop insulting people's intelligence by throwing around comments like "play it on hard."    Don't ****** on me and call it rain.

edit: redundant sentence was redundant.

Modifié par Wrathra, 15 avril 2011 - 04:29 .

[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

I have played Origins after DA2.  I disagree with your assessment of the combat.  I liked that advanced planning could be done in DAO.  I liked that I could use traps.  I liked that I had to have my rogue stealth in, disarm traps, try to take out the mage and as soon as he showed, my mage had to take out the other FAST.

Hell, asthetics-wise, I liked that in DAO Zevran wasn't turning cartwheels and my mage didn't have a wand that went laserspewpew.  And that things didn't explode into gore.  And that, if a companion killed the Ogre or broodmother or dragon or archdemon, THEY did the final blow instead of Hawke coming back from unconscious to land that blow.

I actually like DA2 (not nearly as much as DAO), but there's no way I think the combat in DA2 is better.  There were a couple of fights in DAO that had waves -- major fights (those spiders omg), but even spiders coming down from the ceiling made more sense.  This teleporting enemies just broke all sorts of immersion for me.  It made no sense, and was in EVERY fight.

Plus I really didn't get WHY there were so many gangs.  In Orzammar it made sense.  Just like in Denerim back alleys.  But SO MANY in DA2.  All of them dumb enough to jump the most influential citizen in act 3 who had proven herself in combat repeatedly...

The first time I saw my rogue Hawke flipping around the battlefield like he was auditioning for the circus while my sister twirled her staff like she was in the color guard, I was amused.  It quickly became annoying.  Waiting for my mage to wind up her little pole dance so that she can make her next attack got old pretty fast.

And yes, the entire population of Kirkwall seems to have been infected with something that makes them into homicidal idiots intent on committing suicide-by-Hawke. 

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I'm not a big fan of quite a few aspects of DA 2. Barring story, visual design and character generation changes, the sped up combat does not make the game any more challenging to me nor does it make the game look better. I think the over-the-top combat animations look terrible with all the backflipping, spin kicking flasks at enemies and teleporting around the battlefield. The mages spazzing out to shoot bolts from their staves then quickly repeating the pattern actually makes the animations for using a magic staff look far more repetitive to me than it did even in Origins. Then you have the restrictions made to classes to make them more "unique." Nothing was gained really, the classes weren't enhanced worth anything, they were just limited so that warriors can't use projectile weapons or dual wield melee weapons and rogues can't use anything but "daggers" while performing their highly unrealistic ninja moves. There is so little freedom in how I can play a character class and make my own unique experience that it severely limits any replayability for me.

Origins had plenty of issues for me but it was easy to accept it as it was because creating the lore for an entire game world, creating your own game engine and creating a working combat system takes alot of time and I thought Bioware did a nice job. If I could work on certain aspects of the game to improve upon, I would wish there were more weapon varieties, more skills, the combat could of been tweaked a bit and classes could of been opened up to allow for more customization instead of a very antiquated, strict system of three plain classes.

Now I have a much harsher view of DA 2 because it is a sequel of sorts, it does have a "2" in it so that in itself is telling the fans it is an object of equal quality or shares equal traits with the first. They changed the look of the game, how the combat plays out, ditched the tactical camera, player character creation options and class options for the worse to me. It may just be my opinion but this is the worst game Bioware has ever made. Is it terrible? No, but it makes me want to play Origins (or any other Bioware game) because it feels like a far more polished, superior game with alot more thought put into it's construction. That's not a very successful sequel to me.

[brgillespie]

Holy moly... an interview without marketing soundbites masquerading as questions? SURELY NOT.

[Morducai]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

It was an interesting read, but I still see that they didn't ask him the hard and obvious questions. So I will now, I doubt ML will respond though.

Q: What do you think went wrong with the production of DA2?
Q: What do you think you could have done better?
Q: The public backlash on DA2 was massive, why do you think so many gamers got so mad?

Fair questions but they would have never asked them because developers don't want to answer them, GI never wants to push any buttons or ask the hard questions and rather try to play it safe. That's why I hate their interviews, however their articles and cover stories are really good. 

Now for the star player...Laidlaw, what else can we say. The guy is clearly in his own planet. I just hope the good doctors will give the DA3 development to someone who has actually love for that series and not in it because he wants to erase everything about in order to satisfy his own ego. So far Laidlaw is 0-3 (depending on who you talk to). When will Bioware realize that this guy is not a good creative director. Laidlaw works best when he has someone that direct him and can tell him to put on the brakes.  

His comment regarding PC players is downright insulting to the people who bought into your PR BS by saying DA2 on PC will be unchanged which turned out to be a flat out lie. This interview has cemented my resolve to not ever buy a game that has his name on it.  He has no respect or class. And BTW Laidlaw, there's a reason why DAO became BioWare most successful game ever. 

[FedericoV]

DeathStroke TZA wrote...

Laidlaw isn't wanting to see the flaws of the game and he is saying those that do, are playing the game wrong and ignorantly. Which is insulting, so I can feel for those calling him out. I think he'd be a great asset to Bioware if they'd put him on games that are more in his lines of gameplay, and keep him from doing interviews, because so far all we're seeing from Laidlaw are "Lol you don't like my game? Oh well don't play it. and btw play it right dumb***" He keeps that up and No one will equals no money for Bioware and in turn none for EA. EA likes monies. 

Laidlaw cannot say anything negative about DA2. I doubt that his contract allow such freedom. I'm pretty sure that he wasn't happy with the time schedule he has to work with. But the design direction were not decided by him alone, that's for sure. Bioware studied focus group reaction and then confronted them with the metrics they gathered from Origins. That's the source of most changes. Focus groups and metrics showed that Origins was not so liked as its fans now make it.

Now, I doubt that metrics and focus groups are a good tool to build a game but that's what they have done. The process has worked really well with ME2, but probably the dev cycle was too short and the changes too big to have a good result in DA2. Basically, they have stretched too thin with DA2, that's my impression.

Having said that, the one and ultimate responsbile for Bioware's direction are the docs. And they allways wanted to bring RPGs to a wider audience. Even BG I was called a "dumbed down game for Diablo fans" at the time. If you expect them or Laidlaw to make an apology while the game is still in the first weeks of his commercial life... well, I think that you must be very young or very naive...

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Bostur wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

I don't share my favorite bar with preschools.
I don't share violent movies with my grandma.
I don't share RPGs with people who don't like RPGs.

If they want my money and praise, they need to make a product for me. If they want to make a game for those people, then they need to make a game for those people and stop blowing smoke up my ass.

There's absolutely NO need to make everything be idiot proof and have universal appeal. Adults need adult spaces, just as kids need kid spaces.

And I don't share my Whiskey with people who prefer Cherry Coke.

Well said.

I think you said it better than me.

Adding Cherry Coke to whiskey doesn't make the whiskey better for people who enjoy whiskey, it just makes it watered down. When you add or take away something to make it more 'accessible' to others you're altering the nature of what made it so popular in the first place.

Not everything needs to be made available to everyone. That's why the world has different tastes. If people don't like RPGs, they needn't play them. Likewise, RPGs shouldn't be altered from their essential nature to become action games with a few pointless choices thrown in to ring the changes a bit to attract people who don't like RPGs.

If whiskey isn't to your liking, go drink Cherry Coke.

[Sabriana]

sami jo wrote...

Aradace wrote...

@Sabriana - You do realize that its the exact same way in Origins right? You can use magic right in front of a Templar and there is 0 consequence?

Yes, but at least several of the Templars comment on how they have their hands too full herding refugees to worry about apostates who aren't causing harm; beyond which, Grey Wardens are not subject to the rules of the Circle.  There are other mages outside of the tower proper on sanctioned circle business.  It is made clear repeatedly in DA2 that the mages aren't even being allowed to go see the grand cleric and Hawke is not a Grey Warden.

In Origins my mage was a GW. GW get a free pass The GW don't care what their wardens do. "Anything to stop the blight". Remember that line? Iirc, Anders got conscripted in Awakenings to save him from the templar boss-lady. (Although I could be wrong there. I don't, and won't, own Awakenings, just watched a play-through)

Edited to add

Ooops. Skipped a whole page by accident, the answer was already given. Sorry for the repeat.

I also asked my pal about Anders, and he told me that, yes, Anders was conscripted to save him from the templar, and the templar later resortet to illegal means to kill him assassin style-like.

Modifié par Sabriana, 15 avril 2011 - 04:54 .

[Kklathan]

IMHO, there can be no good answer to the question of "why reuse the maps?". Even people who are passionately defending DA2 refuse to attempt to justify the reused maps. Would it really be so hard for EA or Mike to say "Mea culpa. In retrospect the recycling of maps was a mistake, however justified it seemed during the development process. I / We apologize to the players and be assured, should the be a DA3, we will not be reusing maps in it."

Should they (the mythological "they", whomever they may be) have said something along those lines I would have felt a little bit optimistic about the future of the DA franchise. Instead what we got was an interview that can be summed up as "I LIKE the game I made and you cant make me change it! nah nah na naaa nah."

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Bostur wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

I don't share my favorite bar with preschools.
I don't share violent movies with my grandma.
I don't share RPGs with people who don't like RPGs.

If they want my money and praise, they need to make a product for me. If they want to make a game for those people, then they need to make a game for those people and stop blowing smoke up my ass.

There's absolutely NO need to make everything be idiot proof and have universal appeal. Adults need adult spaces, just as kids need kid spaces.

And I don't share my Whiskey with people who prefer Cherry Coke.

Well said.

I think you said it better than me.

Adding Cherry Coke to whiskey doesn't make the whiskey better for people who enjoy whiskey, it just makes it watered down. When you add or take away something to make it more 'accessible' to others you're altering the nature of what made it so popular in the first place.

Not everything needs to be made available to everyone. That's why the world has different tastes. If people don't like RPGs, they needn't play them. Likewise, RPGs shouldn't be altered from their essential nature to become action games with a few pointless choices thrown in to ring the changes a bit to attract people who don't like RPGs.

If whiskey isn't to your liking, go drink Cherry Coke.

It's that type of thinking that completely baffles me.

Why did they change the game for the people who don't like RPGs? Why did they listen to the griping of people who didn't even like the original, and cater the sequel towards them while ignoring those who did actually like the game?

It actually makes me furious to think about it, as it makes absolutely no sense.

Modifié par Captain Sassy Pants, 15 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[MorrigansLove]

After reading all the comments, it seems this Mike Laidlaw really doesn't get it. If you read the comments on DA2 from websites such as Gamespot, and IGN, it is obvious MORE people were disappointed with DA2, than actually liking it.

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 15 avril 2011 - 05:08 .

[AkiKishi]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...
It's that type of thinking that completely baffles me.

Why did they change the game for the people who don't like RPGs? Why did they listen to the griping of people who didn't even like the original, and cater the sequel towards them while ignoring those who did actually like the game?

It actually makes me furious to think about it, as it makes absolutely no sense.

They are after that illusive mass market that buys 9 million copies of Assassins creed etc. Then you take one look at Kirkwall, one look at Rome and you can see why AC is attractive to a buyer and DA2 is not.

Just liking character building does not translate into liking RPGs. You would think they would have realised this from lack of penetration into the Japanese market. JRPGs are all about character building and stories, not so much about picking options from a list.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 15 avril 2011 - 05:15 .

[Addai]

Roxlimn wrote...
There are game and narrative designs in DA2 that are clearly more forward and more advanced than in DA:O. Reusing map textures is not an improvement, but it's also not unusual for Bioware. The ME games and DA:O itself had tons of reused maps and textures. It's just more obvious in DA2 because the maps in question are more distinctive - less bland.

Um, no.  ME2 locations were distinctive and even small side quests had unique areas, such as the ship that's hanging off the side of a cliff or a planet shrouded in green gas where you have to use beacons to navigate.  This is not the only fault in DA2, but definitely the most glaring.  The locations were pretty but completely monotonous after a while.

Do I think putting waves in tactically interesting start points is an improvement? ABSOLUTELY. In DA:O, you have mobs standing around in rooms doing nothing, waiting to be trapped or Stormed to death. Or you could pull them one by one with careful ranged attacks. Do you really think that that's better?

I don't have a problem with the idea of waves, but the execution was sloppy.  Enemy AI should make some sense in order to really be tactical.  This goes to the whole idea that it's okay to defy the laws of gravity, however.  Sure, it's "magic", but your sense of consequence in the world becomes nil if there aren't certain internal rules that must be obeyed by both allies and enemies.  We thought that no teleport was one of those rules, but that got borked by the awesome button.

[MorrigansLove]

http://uk.gamespot.c...adlines;title;4

JADE EMPIRE 2 MAY BE IN WORKS! MOVE MIKE LAIDLAW TO THAT NOW AND LEAVE DRAGON AGE!

[AkiKishi]

MorrigansLove wrote...

 
http://uk.gamespot.c...adlines;title;4

JADE EMPIRE 2 MAY BE IN WORKS! MOVE MIKE LAIDLAW TO THAT NOW AND LEAVE DRAGON AGE!

That sort of thing works for Jade Empire.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

BobSmith101 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

 
http://uk.gamespot.c...adlines;title;4

JADE EMPIRE 2 MAY BE IN WORKS! MOVE MIKE LAIDLAW TO THAT NOW AND LEAVE DRAGON AGE!

That sort of thing works for Jade Empire.

Fast paced game play works not only for JE2 (which would be sweet!), it actually works for DA2/DA3 as well.

[Mecher3k]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

 
http://uk.gamespot.c...adlines;title;4

JADE EMPIRE 2 MAY BE IN WORKS! MOVE MIKE LAIDLAW TO THAT NOW AND LEAVE DRAGON AGE!

That sort of thing works for Jade Empire.

Fast paced game play works not only for JE2 (which would be sweet!), it actually works for DA2/DA3 as well.

Yea it works so well, that's why sales are dropping fast and people everywhere are talking about their dislike about the game.

Seriously, I haven't seen this much backlash since SWG NGE. And that is saying a lot.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Mecher3k wrote...

Yea it works so well, that's why sales are dropping fast and people everywhere are talking about their dislike about the game.

Seriously, I haven't seen this much backlash since SWG NGE. And that is saying a lot.

You don't have any more proof of that than anyone else has proof it's selling through the roof.  :)

A couple loud voice != most people's opinions.  :)  The upset parties are posting in volume because of their Outrage, but content parties don't have anything to drive them to post in such volume.

[Mecher3k]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

You don't have any more proof of that than anyone else has proof it's selling through the roof.  :)

I'll ignore the sale rankings on multiple sites then.

Herp Derp.

[Addai]

Kklathan wrote...

IMHO, there can be no good answer to the question of "why reuse the maps?". Even people who are passionately defending DA2 refuse to attempt to justify the reused maps. Would it really be so hard for EA or Mike to say "Mea culpa. In retrospect the recycling of maps was a mistake, however justified it seemed during the development process. I / We apologize to the players and be assured, should the be a DA3, we will not be reusing maps in it."

Should they (the mythological "they", whomever they may be) have said something along those lines I would have felt a little bit optimistic about the future of the DA franchise. Instead what we got was an interview that can be summed up as "I LIKE the game I made and you cant make me change it! nah nah na naaa nah."

True.  "We rushed it because we want more of your cash" might be the honest answer, but not going to make anyone feel better.

All the Laidlaw hate is a bit much, though.  He's trying to make the best of what they were given.  I really hope that EA isn't trying to milk the franchise to pay for its MMO boondoggle.

[AkiKishi]

Addai67 wrote...

Kklathan wrote...

IMHO, there can be no good answer to the question of "why reuse the maps?". Even people who are passionately defending DA2 refuse to attempt to justify the reused maps. Would it really be so hard for EA or Mike to say "Mea culpa. In retrospect the recycling of maps was a mistake, however justified it seemed during the development process. I / We apologize to the players and be assured, should the be a DA3, we will not be reusing maps in it."

Should they (the mythological "they", whomever they may be) have said something along those lines I would have felt a little bit optimistic about the future of the DA franchise. Instead what we got was an interview that can be summed up as "I LIKE the game I made and you cant make me change it! nah nah na naaa nah."

True.  "We rushed it because we want more of your cash" might be the honest answer, but not going to make anyone feel better.

All the Laidlaw hate is a bit much, though.  He's trying to make the best of what they were given.  I really hope that EA isn't trying to milk the franchise to pay for its MMO boondoggle.

TOR eats money like candy.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Kklathan wrote...

IMHO, there can be no good answer to the question of "why reuse the maps?". Even people who are passionately defending DA2 refuse to attempt to justify the reused maps. Would it really be so hard for EA or Mike to say "Mea culpa. In retrospect the recycling of maps was a mistake, however justified it seemed during the development process. I / We apologize to the players and be assured, should the be a DA3, we will not be reusing maps in it."

Should they (the mythological "they", whomever they may be) have said something along those lines I would have felt a little bit optimistic about the future of the DA franchise. Instead what we got was an interview that can be summed up as "I LIKE the game I made and you cant make me change it! nah nah na naaa nah."

True.  "We rushed it because we want more of your cash" might be the honest answer, but not going to make anyone feel better.

All the Laidlaw hate is a bit much, though.  He's trying to make the best of what they were given.  I really hope that EA isn't trying to milk the franchise to pay for its MMO boondoggle.

While I don't agree with the hate (ugh, it's a GAME), I don't think he made the best of what he was given.  Had the whole game not been completely rebuilt, from the UI to the AI to the graphics to the conversation system and instead they had tweaked, DA2 could have had a lot more to it.

[erynnar]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Can someone tell me where the lesson was taught that instead of building a game based on community and player review and specifications, you build a product (and a crappy product at that) based on your own personal preferences? Every time he says that he preferred something personally or didn't like something personally, it was something that got "fixed' in DA2 under the guise of innovation.

Specious bolded.  If you're behavior defines a community (and it does!) I don't want to play what they enjoy.

Farewell Dragon Age 3

...

And if you are, I know I won't be buying.

Good!  :lol:  Less whining after the next release.

You do remember a certain post by a moderator directed at you, don't you?  All the cute smileys won't help you.

[Captain Sassy Pants]

That douche-nozzle (RinpocheSchnozberry) hasn't been banned yet?

The irony of this post being the fact that I will probably be banned for calling it like it is.

[erynnar]

Count Viceroy wrote...

xkg wrote...

Thank you for your advice. Not that it is very wise or worth remembering but at least you have tried

Have a nice day

Yes, pardon me ever so much for not joining in with the haters. Whatever shall I do without your approval.


Especially hilarious coming from a 2 week old account without any registered games too. Now I almost feel insulted.

And what ever shall we do without yours? Oh dear me...If you don't like the thread, why are you here? So you can look down your nose and feel superior because you love the game and the rest of us have a problem with your precious?  I am glad you love the game, gratz to you, really. I am glad people like/love it.  I don't, and most of the people here don't  and we get to voice our opinions same as you.

Modifié par erynnar, 15 avril 2011 - 06:17 .