Explain to me what tactics were required on Nightmare in DAO.randName wrote...
I mostly played on Hard or Nightmare - the combat is dumbed down not because normal is easier, simply because the combat is less tactical, that said Nightmare is harder in DA2 than DA:O, but not because it requires more tactics, it simply requires more time and patience.
Modifié par Maverick827, 14 avril 2011 - 08:08 .
Fandango9641 wrote...
Instant, button bashing, gratification and numerous waves of trash mobs do not a good combat system make.I actually agree that the combat system in DA:O was in need of a little tweaking but I found the hack and slash reinvention of DA2 to be absolutely vile. I'm not saying that I'm right, just that I'm not Mike's demographic.
Sad Dragon wrote...
ItsToofy wrote...
Why do people say combat is more responsive? I don't need my combat as fast as I can push buttons, i've been tired of button mashing since the Test your Might in Mortal Kombat, in DA:O every weapon had a speed, 2h weapons obviously had a slower swing speed and it was balanced to make up for the amount of damage it caused and the special abilities each had their own "casting time" seeing as they were obviously more powerful than a standard attack and *gasp* had a chance of being interrupted?!?! egads no! it might hurt people's feelings if they actually MISS an attack or FAIL to use their ability!
It's more responsive as your character doesnt stand still doing nothing for 30 sec. You select the ability it goes off -- hit or miss. Some abilities still have "casting time" but its shorter so you dont have as much lag between making and option and then having it executed.
-- TSD
Kimberly Shaw wrote...
jds1bio wrote...
As far
as difficulty levels go, in 2011 "Normal" frankly is the new
"sub-normal", somewhere between the easy and normal of 7-10 years ago.
"Hard" is a bit harder than the "Normal" of DA:O. So there is some
creedence to his statement about playing on Hard. .
What on earth are you talking about?
"Dumbing Down" is not remedied by nor limited to improving the difficulty
of combat. Dumb != Easy, and the opposite of DUMB is not "hard". The
opposite of dumb is smart. The only thing that playing on hard does is
make combat more difficult.
I get that you're an apologist for Laidlaw, but please understand that he was being asked about the dumbing
down and simplification/streamlining of the game as a whole, not the
dfficulty level's effect of hit points of the monsters. Do you
understand that?
Modifié par jds1bio, 14 avril 2011 - 08:09 .
ItsToofy wrote...
Btw, DA2 isn't more responsive, DA:O responds just as well, I push a button and they do something, they just eliminated the "casting time" between pushing the button and something awesome happening. The Awesome Per Second ratio (APS) has been upped for this game, though balanced by increased health and extra waves, thus giving you an illusion that combat is faster, when in fact, it is only visually faster, not chronologically. All they did was change how combat visually was portrayed to sucker people into thinking its an improvement and more in line with their "fast action" ways, thus attracting that new fan base.
tmp7704 wrote...
That comes from Brent Knowles' blog, i think -- Mr.Knowles was the second lead designer for Dragon Age, and supposedly was asked to take this postion after departure of James Ohlen, the man who was originally in charge. While he gives fairly detailed description of how the development of DA went over years, it doesn't even mention Mr.Laidlaw being made lead designer at any point, let alone his impact on the game. You can read into that what you will.Volourn wrote...
he was a lead designer. That's a pretty big role. The fact you guys are making stuff up when you weren't there is funny. I wasn't eitehr but I can readn ther manual, and it quite frankly lists him as a Lead designer. Sounds pretty important to me - espciially since that's his role in DA2 as well. Gaider was a Lead Writer for both (and did a better overall job with DA2 in that regard)..
TJSolo wrote...
It is fun to read this interview with ML about DAO, when DAO was new :
http://www.rpgfan.co...view/index.html
jds1bio wrote...
ItsToofy wrote...
Btw, DA2 isn't more responsive, DA:O responds just as well, I push a button and they do something, they just eliminated the "casting time" between pushing the button and something awesome happening. The Awesome Per Second ratio (APS) has been upped for this game, though balanced by increased health and extra waves, thus giving you an illusion that combat is faster, when in fact, it is only visually faster, not chronologically. All they did was change how combat visually was portrayed to sucker people into thinking its an improvement and more in line with their "fast action" ways, thus attracting that new fan base.
You need to register the Awesome Per Second Ratio as a trademark before someone else does!
No, the family-centric story with realistic conflicts was for the mature fans. I'm sorry they didn't appeal to your supposedly mature sensibilities. Maybe they should have went with a fairy tale again - those scream maturity.Edli wrote...
So what happened to that philosophy in the sequel? Flashy animations, exploding bodies, animesque art design and mindless combat aren't really targetting us the mature folks are they?
jds1bio wrote...
I am an apologist for no one. I'm just not erupting in horror every time he's quoted somewhere.
But doesn't making something more difficult mean that you MIGHT need a smarter approach to overcome the difficulty? You might need to carefully choose certain talents above and beyond basic attacks? You might need to be more aware of your surroundings and move to different locations in the battle arena? You might need to manage your potion inventory more carefully? You might need to be on pause a LOT more often?
What else should playing on hard do besides make combat more difficult?
Modifié par Kimberly Shaw, 14 avril 2011 - 08:17 .
Sad Dragon wrote...
It's more responsive as your character doesnt stand still doing nothing for 30 sec. You select the ability it goes off -- hit or miss. Some abilities still have "casting time" but its shorter so you dont have as much lag between making and option and then having it executed.
-- TSD
Modifié par Nerevar-as, 14 avril 2011 - 08:17 .
Maverick827 wrote...
Explain to me what tactics were required on Nightmare in DAO.
I'll even offer my counter argument for you now: Blood Wound.
randName wrote...
I mostly played on Hard or Nightmare - the combat is dumbed down not because normal is easier, simply because the combat is less tactical, that said Nightmare is harder in DA2 than DA:O, but not because it requires more tactics, it simply requires more time and patience.
But in the end Hard or Nightmare is mostly just more damage to you, more HP to the enemies, more resistance to the enemies, more fortitude etc etc.
This does force you to be more tactical from normal to hard, I agree this is true, and it further adds tactics from hard to Nightmare; the problem is that it's not tactical at Hard or Nightmare, just more so than on normal or causal (at this point you don't need to think at all).
Kimberly Shaw wrote...
jds1bio wrote...
I am an apologist for no one. I'm just not erupting in horror every time he's quoted somewhere.
But doesn't making something more difficult mean that you MIGHT need a smarter approach to overcome the difficulty? You might need to carefully choose certain talents above and beyond basic attacks? You might need to be more aware of your surroundings and move to different locations in the battle arena? You might need to manage your potion inventory more carefully? You might need to be on pause a LOT more often?
What else should playing on hard do besides make combat more difficult?
DUMBING DOWN THE GAME IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE COMBAT. Argh. There are dozens of things in DA2 that were "dumbed down" from DAO of which combat is only one of those things and turning the difficulty to "hard" doesn't address some of the dumbed down things in combat either.
Is that clear for you?
Kimberly Shaw wrote...
DUMBING DOWN THE GAME IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE COMBAT. Argh. There are dozens of things in DA2 that were "dumbed down" from DAO of which combat is only one of those things and turning the difficulty to "hard" doesn't address some of the dumbed down things in combat either.
Is that clear for you?
But I suppose to Mike Laidlaw "button of awesome" and to you the only thing about the game is combat so interpretting a question abotu dumbing down the game can only be relgated in combat terms. THIS IS AN RPG NOT A FPS OR GOD OF WAR 4.
*argh* must remember to breath
Sorry to JDS, you sound like a smart person and reasonable, I'm trying to get my point across and for some reason failing.
Try posting on Easy.Kimberly Shaw wrote...
Sorry to JDS, you sound like a smart person and reasonable, I'm trying to get my point across and for some reason failing.
Nerevar-as wrote...
Actually, half the time it´s select an ability and watch the character finish a pointlessly over the top attack and then use the skill. If you haven´t been interrupted before. Mages are especially bad with those twirls. Getting hit because the character listened too many tales is not my idea of better responsiveness.
Modifié par Shadowbanner, 14 avril 2011 - 08:25 .
Khayness wrote...
Yarr, play on Hard haters!
The combat scenarios are just as repeating, the enemy variables are still few, the combat is just finding the winning formula and abuse it in nearly every goddamn situation.
jds1bio wrote...
I think I agree, but I'm not sure. Tell me if I'm misinterpreting this, but I think you're saying that in the lower difficulty levels there are no tactics because you don't need to think, but at the higher difficulty levels there are tactics. But, there should be tactics at all levels, just smarter ones at higher difficulty settings.
If I got that right, I get your viewpoint. But isn't it still up to the player to decide what abilities to get, and when/how to use them?
And as for Hard/Nightmare, how else should they scale up the difficulty? If they leave all the HP and stat checks the same, what other variables can they tweak? They could be more hasty I guess, getting in two attacks for every one of yours. They could do the opposite and decide to sit a round of attacks out also. What is the solution?
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