148 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

maikanix wrote...
Lol. I don't know if there's a prescription for low IQ, but I think I can prescribe some traquillizers to keep you down and out of people's hair.

I played BG2 again less than five months ago, so I think the perspective is fresh enough. No saying DA:O ain't good, just saying it's not as good.

Ooh, low IQ.  That's a nice shot.

Obviously if you were more intelligent, you'd like BG2 more.

Or something.

[TimelordDC]

How many times have you guys played BG2 to realize its full potential?

This game has been out for just over 2 weeks and already this game isn't as good as BG2? Have you people finished all variations of the plots, side-quests, companion quests and heard all the companion banter?

Seriously, give this game a chance. It may yet outshine BG2.

[boba1974]

Akka le Vil wrote...

boba1974 wrote...

What's your favorite PC game of all time?

If you have to ask, then you either not have played Torment or have bad tastes

Funny, i think i mentioned Torment as being, if not the best a close second, to Baldur's Gate 2 not five posts ago. My taste is fine, you're reading skills, however, are not.
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[Gidzen]

MisterEcted wrote...

DA:O dethrones BG2?

HA! I don't have nostalgia to go by because I just played BG2 for the first time last year and it's WAY better then DA:O.

I just finished DA:O Warden's quest and never played any of the Balbur' s and so far I I'm more inspired to go find BG2 (because of these type comments) then finish this game!!!    The good points of DA:O are outstanding and the poor ones are GLARING...  I loved Oblivion but then again I bought it a year ago [after all the modders had the fixes for it and made it most interesting]. 

I know it's really unfair to complare the two because of the diabolically opposed combat mechanics but as far as someone who is "new" to RPG's I preferred Oblivion because it was less frustrating and more fun to play.... and to those that would say I should have researched the game more thoroughly before I bought it.....I say, the hype was very misleading.......the videos were not representative of the content.  IF you like it great!!!  but to us who invested in this game  the gripes are justified..

SO in conclusion MODDERS please fix this game.... thanks

[Rothgar49]

I'd say that Baldur's Gate 2 remains as the kind or RPGS. Dragon Age is an awesome game by itself, but it has been tainted as far as a good rpg goes. I mean no disrespect to console gamers here, but i feel consoles tend to dumb down the role playing element of any games, where a port is required. I don't mean that console gamers are stupid, I just mean that perhaps some of the abilities of pure pc rpgs like bg2 are somewhat limited. And its not really fair to give pc players an awesome version and let the console gamers have... well naff...



Just my opinion anyway

[Wissenschaft]

Seifz wrote...

I don't know why y'all think BG2 was better. All that BG2 had was a great story and interesting companions. AD&D v2 sucked and the graphics weren't all that great, even for their time. Since DA:O has better companions and a fantastic story that isn't set in an overused Forgotten Realms and doesn't involve any Drow Rangers... Yeah, DA:O is much better.

Exactly, the problem with BG2 was AD&D v2 which was terrible for a computer game. Not to mention the banter is a lot better in DA:O and theres much more off it.  Even the rommances are better.

As for people compaling about class balance in DA:O. Look at BG2. There was no balance, mages where hands down all powerful and completly suck at low level. Not to mention the long list of useless spells. On the other hand warriors did little more than click and attack away. At least you get talents in DA:O (spend some points in willpower if you want to use them more often).

I find the combat in this game far more entertaining.

[Wissenschaft]

I also find Torment more hype than anything else and very much like FF7. It was a classic of its time but very out of date nowadays.

[Gidzen]

[quote]Crawling_Chaos wrote...

[quote]Legion-001 wrote...


They shouldn't even try because their writing just comes off as juvenile garbage.
.

[/quote]

Mr Crawling,  I think your wrong, I liked the plot so far but if you  would publish your own "ADULT" sophisticated  commentary than I 'd be interesting in your future comments.  

[Kyda]

Well, i haven´t play DA:O yet. Since i am from Southamerica, i am still waiting for the game to come out here. I have been wondering a lot about DAO because i am a great fan or BG2. I played a few RPGs and the only one after BG2 that actually was close to it was NWN2 (even though i hated the end in the original campaign). I am still (currently) playing modded BG1 (tutu) and BG2, for me the most important part of the game is the story and the interactions... so i am hoping DAO can lvl up to BG2...

[Hathur]

Ugh, whoever recommended Oblivion is ignorant... Oblivion had terrible / boring characters that you had no attachment or interest in and the story line was absurdly idiotic (the start was really good - then by mid point, end game.. the story fell apart).



Dragon Age has a mediocre story but wonderful characters .. it's the characters in Dragon Age that make it so special, not the plot itself.



Baldur's Gate 2 was still more enjoyable for me than Dragon Age (I just played and beat it again a month ago before DA released).. but Dragon Age is still very good in my eyes.

[LethalBlade]

Wissenschaft wrote...

I also find Torment more hype than anything else and very much like FF7. It was a classic of its time but very out of date nowadays.

Great stories and characters never go "out of date".

[Wonderboy2402]

This is all opinion. Who cares. You are comparing a game that is decade in age compared to a modern one? 0_o



I doubt alot of people have even played BG2 all the way to the ending. Well I have, and BG2 is still better in my own opinion. Maybe dragon age with a few more years of patches, expansions and MODs could reach what BG2 achived.



These constant arguements about BG2 vs. Dragon Age are getting tedious. There are both achievements in the eras they were created.



Now. Let it go.

[Joe Ronimo]

BG2 was better in some ways and DA:O is better in others. I love the graphics and spoken dialogue of DA:O. I loved the plotlines, quests, and open world feel of BG2.



I'll simply say that, for me, DA:O is the closest thing to BG2. And since I have trouble enjoying BG2 as much as I used to due to its graphics and text dialogue, I'm thrilled about DA:O.

[mysticforce42]

BG2 is really three games with this expansions, so in regards to length or depth of story DA:O can't really compare.



However, DA:O has a far richer lore and more compelling characters. While Minsc retains his status as the God of all henchmen, I find the other companions in BG2 to be rather lacking. I suppose I enjoy the DA:O setting more so than Forgotten Realms.



As far as tactical combat, I'd have to give DA:O the advantage. While in both settings having a couple of mages along trivialized many fights, the sheer overwhelming numbers in DA:O forces you to use your greatest game-breaking abilities constantly, whereas in BG2 a Sorcerer with a full sequencer of defensive spells and 9 fireballs can pretty much solo the entire game... using more game-breaking abilities is not required.



I loved BG2, but now it is way past its prime. I tried to start it up 2 months ago and had to give up before even getting out of Irenicus' dungeon. Now it rests on my shelf along side PS:Torment - games that were the greatest of their time, but no longer hold much luster.



Now I am expecting DA:O to pick up the mantle and hope the inevitable expansions live up to my expectations.

[Shannara13]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I don't know why y'all think BG2 was better. All that BG2 had was a great story and interesting companions. AD&D v2 sucked and the graphics weren't all that great, even for their time. Since DA:O has better companions and a fantastic story that isn't set in an overused Forgotten Realms and doesn't involve any Drow Rangers... Yeah, DA:O is much better.

Exactly, the problem with BG2 was AD&D v2 which was terrible for a computer game. Not to mention the banter is a lot better in DA:O and theres much more off it.  Even the rommances are better.

As for people compaling about class balance in DA:O. Look at BG2. There was no balance, mages where hands down all powerful and completly suck at low level. Not to mention the long list of useless spells. On the other hand warriors did little more than click and attack away. At least you get talents in DA:O (spend some points in willpower if you want to use them more often).

I find the combat in this game far more entertaining.

See the difference between me and you is that almost all the things you list as negatives I see as positives.

[Phantom6612]

Shannara13 wrote...

Phantom6612 wrote...

Wow, I'm sorry, but I came in to this thread a bit curious, and seemed to have found a bunch of people who act like they have the wrong hobby. Just a bunch of complaints about the characters, story or just the general way Bioware wanted to make the game. And it appears the complaints, to some degree, move beyond Dragon Age. If playing a game, and not understanding what it is going to be like, is such a huge problem, just read a book, considering that seems to have more of what people are looking for--added bonus, no poor gameplay to worry about.

Anyway, I can't really comment on BG2 vs DA:O. The characters and story in BG2 seemed interesting, but I couldn't get past the AD&D2 system. Perhaps a second attempt is in order though. As for DA:O, I'm enjoying it so far. Your basic fantasy tale, but amusing nonetheless.

People can complain about something and still like it. No matter how good something is there will always be something you wished could have been done better.

I agree that they can complain, but still like it. My problem was the tone of a few comments turned towards complaining in a poor way. Some of it may have been sarcastic, I particularly didn't care at the time--posting while not in the best of moods can cause bad things to happen. Anyway, it just seemed, to me, that there were complaints in the overall quality of games, not just Dragon Age. And that is why I commented.

Currently I'm not far enough in Dragon Age to make too much of a comment on it. I'm enjoying it so far, though.

A somewhat recent game that for me fits what you describe is Mass  Effect. I liked the game, but I was hoping for more.

[Azinulbizar]

If you really think this game "dethrones" BG2 I despair for the mental level that gamers have "devolved" to.

[FinchyHoha]

I don't understand these debates. The only improvement in Dragon Age is the graphics and possibly Bioware's unique setting. Everything DA:O tries to do was done better in the Infinity Engine days. For story (and by story, I mean pages and pages of lore, which Bioware loves, and still does in DA:O and ME), Torment did it better. For combat, IWD2 still has the best epic fights (Shaengarne Ford blows any DA:O fight out of the water). For sheer epic-ness, BG and BG2 (especially played as one game with Baldur's Gate Trilogy) are simply untouched. Finally, if you're looking for cinematic effect, Mass Effect had much, much, much, much more "movie" feeling to it than Dragon Age does.

Control-wise, the new engine is just plain awful. A camera that doesn't zoom out far enough, a UI that's way too dumbed down (though the inventory is an improvement), and the lack of full use of all of the available keys on a keyboard are all dealbreakers.

Gameplay-wise, the battles are just... lackluster. While the AI may be slightly improved, the increased speed of everything and the lousy new agro system ruin it.

And the class system is just atrocious. Shallow, predictable, and bland. Color me not impressed. 2nd ed is hardly innovative or balanced, but at least it gives your a plethora of options.

Bioware's concealment of all of the game mechanics and formulas means that they're either needlessly complicated (why create a system where every formula involves 5 decimal points) or purposely obscure prevent players from realizing how simple and unoriginal the gameplay mechanics are.

The quests are just boring. We've played this exact game structure before in KOTOR and Mass Effect. Dressing it up in elves and dwarves doesn't conceal the same early-game rail followed by your choice of three middle-game rails followed by end-game rail that Bioware has used since KOTOR. Bioware trots out the same group of stock characters for each game as well (which is complicated by an overuse of common video game voice actors).

I will admit that getting out of the Forgotten Realms was refreshing, but there was so much more that could have been done with this lore. The Infinity Engine games (in particular Torment, BG1, and IWD2 in my mind) still reign supreme (with some competition from Black Isle's Fallout).

Modifié par FinchyHoha, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:46 .

[51Geezerino]

Phew...lots of posts. BG2 was deep with tons of content, DA:O has less content, but is more polished. An apples-to-apples comparison can't really be made...different rules (AD&D2 vs DAO system), Infinity Engine (2D) versus whatever they're using now (3D).



BG2 had much more content than DA:O because the AD&D rules allowed for many more possibilities...more classes, more monsters, more spells, etc. But DA:O seems more polished in the fashion in which it presents its story.



IMHO, what really drives Bioware's success and people's love of these games is "story driven" role playing. All the other window dressing such as character types, races, whatever, exist only to allow the player the ability to pilot their alter-ego through the framework of the story. I noticed that in all of the posts in this thread, no one has mentioned the Ice Wind Dale series, which also used the Infinity system, but had a tepid story and no NPC interactions. It is the story and one's interactions with it that make both DA:O and BG2 great RPGs.



I loved BG1, BG2 and TOB, but the graphics now seem comic-bookish compared to DA:O's standards.



BG1 was the first game I ever played where you got to have henchmen with their own personalities and agenda's. BG2 introduced villains (and lots of them) with reasons for being who they were. Irenicus was an ego-centric demagogue who was angry because they wouldn't let him become a "god". Bohdi was antagonistic because your character was a snack. Firkraag wanted to smear and disparage your character's reputation just because he (it, she?) was evil, enjoyed your suffering and was irritated at your foster father for beating it in a previous battle. TOB buffed the villains up and made them killers.



BG2 was the first PC game I played where the concept of a romance with a party character was introduced. Hmmm....who to pursue? Aerie (whiny, but hot), Jaheira (bossy, but hot), the Drow chick (evil, but hot). BG2 also allowed one to play through a simple mystery (the whole skinwalker business in the Bridge district) where one had to collect clues to uncover a murderer. BG2 introduced the idea of having a haven earned by deeds (e.g. planar sphere for mages, the keep for fighters, etc.) and its subsequent management. NWN2 took the mystery genre a bit further with the Ember sub-plot. I loved playing the lawyer and trying to sway the jury or public opinion (it helped that I preferred to play paladins). So for me, Bioware made these games more enjoyable by adding elements that were not strictly tactical or pure fantasy.



And, oh dear lord, for folks who loved tactical challenges, remember in BG1 the section of map where the friking gorgons (lizards which could turn your party members into stone simply by looking at them) were? Nothing like piloting a party of 3rd or 4th level characters, with their lousy saves, through that map for the first time. Or any of the dragon battles in BG2 or TOB (how about that blue dragon, that, after being hammered nearly to death, turned invisible, quaffed a Heal potion and came back for another round?). Demi-gorgon anyone? And if Insane difficulty wasn't enough for you, you could always install the Tactics Mod and have your ass handed to you using pretty much the same tactics you'd use on the monsters (see how well mage characters stand up when every monster on the map decides that your mages need to die first and proceed to ignore your tanks until your mages are toast).



DA:O has done a pretty good job with the tactics in my opinion. On the PC, I have a hard time with the Normal difficulty setting (friking revenants). It took some practice with the system to get proficient (nothing deflates an ego faster than one's party being owned by a bunch of wolves). Besides, if I get bored, I can always dial up the difficulty (not going to happen).



DA:O has done a better job of character-NPC and NPC-NPC interaction. The conversation between Leliana and Morrigan ending where Leliana suggests they go shoe shopping sometime was pretty hilarious. Plus the mature themes add spice that was lacking in the BG series (although I personally find the use of bras in DA:O to be a bit excessive and historically inaccurate for a medieval society).



Like several of the earlier posts have mentioned, its too soon to compare DA:O with BG2, there may be a DA:O 2 in the future. I hope so.

[Akka le Vil]

boba1974 wrote...

Funny, i think i mentioned Torment as being, if not the best a close second, to Baldur's Gate 2 not five posts ago. My taste is fine, you're reading skills, however, are not.
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My am reading skills, as you write, are fine - youR writing ones, less so

I did read you mentioned Torment, but it is certainly not a "close second", it's a "first place by far", which was my point

[Legion-001]

I wouldn't describe DA:O as a story-driven RPG, I'd describe it as a story-restricted RPG or in more simple terms and as someone appropriately put it previously an 'On the Rails' RPG.

[Haplose]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Seifz wrote...

I don't know why y'all think BG2 was better. All that BG2 had was a great story and interesting companions. AD&D v2 sucked and the graphics weren't all that great, even for their time. Since DA:O has better companions and a fantastic story that isn't set in an overused Forgotten Realms and doesn't involve any Drow Rangers... Yeah, DA:O is much better.

Exactly, the problem with BG2 was AD&D v2 which was terrible for a computer game. Not to mention the banter is a lot better in DA:O and theres much more off it.  Even the rommances are better.

As for people compaling about class balance in DA:O. Look at BG2. There was no balance, mages where hands down all powerful and completly suck at low level. Not to mention the long list of useless spells. On the other hand warriors did little more than click and attack away. At least you get talents in DA:O (spend some points in willpower if you want to use them more often).

I find the combat in this game far more entertaining.

Signed.
AD&D 2nd ed. has nothing to hold against DAO system.


Still for me the original Fallout game system (not the joke used in 3rd!) remains unmatched.