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Grievances with ME2 (title changed to focus on topic)


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#1
NoSoyBueno

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I'm going to keep this as short as possible - five points: dialogue, morality, immersion, missions, squadmates.

Dialogue
Where is the dialogue in main plot missions?  Most dialogue in ME2 seems to be just filler there.  I remember the entire first half of the mission on Noveria was just talking to people - I can negotiate deals with the shopkeeper, Anoleis, Parasini, Qui'in, the Krogan, and the ERCS guards.  ME2 has no negotiation and no serious dialogue in main plot missions - on Collector Ships the only real dialogue is about the genetic experiments.

Morality
Why is there so little morality in main plot missions in ME2?  Remember Feros?  That mission is loaded with moral decisions - whether to help the colonists, how to deal with Jeong, dealing with that woman's daughter, whether to kill the Thorian slaves, whether to kill Shiala.  On Horizon you just talk about a dead husk and have conversations with Delan and the Virmire Survivor that can only end one way.

Even the action-oriented mission on Virmire is packed with dialogue and moral decisions.

Immersion
Aside from Omega, and to a lesser extent Illium, I feel much less immersion in ME2.  The first problem came with the removal of the Mako - I don't know what everyone's feelings on the Mako are, but I know that it made it feel like I was actually exploring another world rather than just visiting a different room (this isn't to say that I considered the Mako an ideal solution - I just would like to have something that accomplishes that).  The second problem is that a couple of the hubs are just a bit too small.

Missions
Aside from Samara's and Thane's Loyalty, all Recruitment and Loyalty missions are the same in ME2.  You force your way through twenty to fifty enemies to get to the objective.  If there is a moral decision, it is most likely at the end.  Sure, this is similar to Tali's or Liara's 'recruitment', or Wrex's and Garrus' 'loyalty' in ME1, but did they seriously have to make the entire game like this?  Some of the missions don't even fit - why am I fighting waves of enemies in Kasumi's loyalty mission, which is supposed to be a discreet heist-style operation?  Why did there have to be enemies in the abandoned Pragia facility?  Why am I fighting mechs on Aeia?

Squadmates
Twelve squadmates is too many.  Some of them don't seem to add much to the setting, like Jacob or Zaeed (and I already know I angered someone with those picks).  I also noticed, when playing ME1 yesterday, that all of your squad is in the briefing room after plot missions - I rather liked that set up, even if some of the squad didn't speak.  In ME2, the only time this happens is right before the Suicide Mission.


For your consideration,
-NSB

Modifié par NoSoyBueno, 16 avril 2011 - 07:43 .


#2
CroGamer002

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Image IPB

#3
Teknor

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ME>ME2>ME3. Problem Bioware ?

#4
MrVincent

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Teknor wrote...

ME>ME2>ME3. Problem Bioware ?


Mah God! You've played ME3??!?! Tell us all what it is like!!!

#5
chester013

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A lot of these points have been poured over to no end so I'll add my thought in a very brief manner.

Noveria - boring. Yep having all that dialogue to wade through before I could shoot something bored the hell out of me.

Morality - Did you do Zaeeds mission? Thane's recruitment and loyalty mission? Samara's loyalty mission? There's more, a lot more so I won't list them here.

Immersion - driving around the same landscape just re-textured over and over was not my idea of immersion. I agree the hubs are a little small but I don't want to spend too much time wandering around, I wan't some action.

Missions - Yes a lot of missions are a bit too similar, but you have different groups who behave slightly differently. Fighting Blood Pack is not like fighting Collectors or Husks. They're not different enough but this is something BW has acknowledged and is (supposedly) addressing for ME3.

Squad mates - I think they all add a little something myself, different classes need complimenting in different ways. My sentinel doesn't need Miranda so I take Jack, Some close range muscle with pull for Warp bombs.

ME2 isn't perfect but it was better than ME1, I get the impression you rushed though and have yet to explore the game fully.

Modifié par chester013, 14 avril 2011 - 07:52 .


#6
Teknor

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MrVincent wrote...

Mah God! You've played ME3??!?! Tell us all what it is like!!!


It's all shooty. Made me weep for RPG genre.

#7
Guest_Nyoka_*

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No eres bueno, cierto.

#8
NoSoyBueno

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I have done multiple 100% playthroughs with all DLC.

If you want action, there are loads of other games on the market in all genres that offer waves of enemies to kill. I play Mass Effect because I get dialogue and morality. If I don't want this, there are games like Call of Duty, which are no-nonsense, kill-fests.

Regarding squadmates: from a storytelling standpoint, it is better to have too few characters than too many.

-NSB

#9
MrVincent

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Teknor wrote...

MrVincent wrote...

Mah God! You've played ME3??!?! Tell us all what it is like!!!


It's all shooty. Made me weep for RPG genre.


You're judgements on something you have never played makes me weep for the gamer community.

#10
VolusNamedBob

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I recently played through ME1 again in preperation for 3, and it was not as good as I remember. The combat felt like watching a shakey cam, lens flare filled, laggy video on the internet. The conversations bored me so much, always the same static camera and animations, I get bored halfway through a conversation on the Normandy.

The Mako was horrible, I spent 5 minutes stuck under a gate because it decided to flip over an invisible wall. The uncharted worlds felt like the designers just randomly spun their mouse around then clicked the increase land height button.

And overall, it bored me far more than ME2 did. I didn't even go into the full problems.

#11
Commander_Adept

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Noveria is the biggest piece of gaming garbage known to mankind. You saying that it is a good point in Mass Effect, making Mass 1 superior to Mass 2, makes your points invalid.

In any case, my counter-attack.

Characters:

Mass 1's characters were very black and white, vanilla, and all around boring. With the exception of Wrex, of course. Garrus was cool, but substantially more awesome in Mass 2. He had a real personality, actually did something on the ship (Damn calibrations) rather than just standing in front of the Mako for some reason and was more interesting, at the very least, to female Shepard. Ashley, Kaidan, and Liara are probably the most lazily written characters in the series. "Hey guys, great idea, let's write in three characters who are so vanilla and boring, but let's add a tiny twist to each of them to make them... interesting... Oh, and let's force-kill one of them. Leaving an almost always non-scar on the player, rather than had they killed off Wrex, Garrus or Tali."

Even Tali is kind of boring. She has no personality in the first game, she's just more or less a codex on Quarian culture as a whole. Whereas, in Mass 2, she's most certainly fiery and all about being cool.

Feros was confusing and the Thorian was extremely frustrating to take down.

In Mass 2...

Each character actually has a really cool background, some more than others, of course. Jack alone accounts for more personality than all squadmate in Mass 1 (During the time of Mass 1, of course) combined. Then, there's also the 11 other squadmates who are much more interesting than the ones during Soverign's reign of terror.

Recruitment and loyalty missions see to that, easily.

Story's much more immersive as well. Half the time, you don't really know just what the ****'s going on in Mass 1, whereas in Mass 2 it's everywhere and very apparent.

#12
Aradace

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All well and good OP but...You're missing something, it's an opinion, not a fact that ME1 is better than ME2. I happen to like ME2 just as much as ME1. But again, thats my opinion and other people are free to think what they will

#13
Zulu_DFA

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Everybody knows it, too few admit it.

#14
Teknor

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Everybody knows it, too few admit it.


You are not everybody. You are not even a somebody.

#15
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*

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All I heard was....

Blablablablah....  B)

Modifié par Imperium Alpha, 14 avril 2011 - 08:03 .


#16
CroGamer002

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@Commander_Adept

With exception of Liara I have disagree that characters were boring in ME1.

#17
Aradace

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Everybody knows it, too few admit it.


Can I have some of what you're on? Seriously.  Who died and told you that you had the ability to speak for me? <_<

#18
AdmiralCheez

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Eh, I liked ME2 better. Combat was more fun, got more attached to the characters.

#19
tonnactus

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I agree,but there are already a dozen other threads with this subject.

#20
Whatever42

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Teknor wrote...

ME>ME2>ME3. Problem Bioware ?


It's all been utter trash since Baldur's Gate 2.

#21
theelementslayer

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I have to say I think that ME1 and ME2 were bad games, ME3 better be like MW2 or I will be angry.

#22
Aradace

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

ME>ME2>ME3. Problem Bioware ?


It's all been utter trash since Baldur's Gate 2.


And yet you continue to play them.  Seems to me if it bothered you that much you wouldnt even bother playing them.  

#23
Alpr

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The mako was a strong point in ME? You have to be ****ing me.

Modifié par Alpr, 14 avril 2011 - 08:11 .


#24
tonnactus

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Commander_Adept wrote...


Mass 1's characters were very black and white, vanilla, and all around boring.


Thats exactly the opinion i have about most of the Mass Effect 2 characters.They are all predictable and boring except legion maybee.

#25
Whatever42

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Aradace wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

ME>ME2>ME3. Problem Bioware ?


It's all been utter trash since Baldur's Gate 2.


And yet you continue to play them.  Seems to me if it bothered you that much you wouldnt even bother playing them.  


I figure the only way to make Bioware a better company is to buy all their games and then spend years on the forums pointing out every flaw. Unfortunately most people disagree with me and think I'm derranged but I will never give up. Bioware is complete garbage and I will expose them.

Thank you for your attention.