270 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

NoSoyBueno wrote...

I am also not arguing that there should more non-combat missions - just more options to deal with these that might not necessarily result in mass slaughter.

-NSB

At least thanes recruitment should have an alternative option to simply contact Nassana Dantius(those who made her mission in the first game)
But the lizard had to get the "cool" material arts cutscene.

[didymos1120]

tonnactus wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...


You could fail both (your choice) and in Samara's you could choose to kill her. 

It doesnt matter. Both mission are no combat missions.(the killing is just a cutscene)
There is no choice unlike with Major Kyle for example(kill or talk/ or giving anoleis the mods of the hanar)
Mass Effect 2 is complete railroading.

Nonsense.  They're still choices and they can still affect the outcome.  And the fact that the killing is a cutscene is irrelevant: you pick who dies.  That's a choice, by any definition. It's simply a different set of options than the ones at the end of the Major Kyle assignment. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 15 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[Aradace]

chester013 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

ME>ME2>ME3. Problem Bioware ?

It's all been utter trash since Baldur's Gate 2.

And yet you continue to play them.  Seems to me if it bothered you that much you wouldnt even bother playing them.  

I figure the only way to make Bioware a better company is to buy all their games and then spend years on the forums pointing out every flaw. Unfortunately most people disagree with me and think I'm derranged but I will never give up. Bioware is complete garbage and I will expose them.

Thank you for your attention.

I concur!

You people see these owls? Get out of here owls, I will not buy your encyclopedias! I can't read your language I can only speak it, hooo hooo hooo hooo!

Well, good luck with that guys lol...Too bad you'll ultimately fail in that goal.  And worse yet, no one will probably ever remember you doing it either.  Which is worse, Im not sure about.  Failing in your "noble" goal.  Or failing at said goal, only to find out that no one will even remember your struggle.

[Whatever42]

Aradace wrote...
Well, good luck with that guys lol...Too bad you'll ultimately fail in that goal.  And worse yet, no one will probably ever remember you doing it either.  Which is worse, Im not sure about.  Failing in your "noble" goal.  Or failing at said goal, only to find out that no one will even remember your struggle.

Failure or success does not matter! Only the struggle matters! This is not merely about games. This is a religious struggle! When I finally go to that great booze-up in Valhalla, I won't be accused of not fighting the good fight! I will bear my scars from all you gaming heathens proudly!

...and there had better not be any owls there!

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 15 avril 2011 - 02:17 .

[Aradace]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Well, good luck with that guys lol...Too bad you'll ultimately fail in that goal.  And worse yet, no one will probably ever remember you doing it either.  Which is worse, Im not sure about.  Failing in your "noble" goal.  Or failing at said goal, only to find out that no one will even remember your struggle.

Failure or success does not matter! Only the struggle matters! This is not merely about games. This is a religious struggle! When I finally go to that great booze-up in Valhalla, I won't be accused of not fighting the good fight! I will bear my scars from all you gaming heathens proudly!

...and there had better not be any owls there!

Im sorry, who are you again?

[tonnactus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nonsense.  They're still choices and they can still affect the outcome.  And the fact that the killing is a cutscene is irrelevant: you pick who dies.  That's a choice, by any definition. It's simply a different set of options than the ones at the end of the Major Kyle assignment. 

That wasnt the point.There is no choice innitiating combat or avoid it like in the case of the Major Kyle quests. Such quests didnt exist in Mass Effect 2(with such an amount as that,not counting the batarians in Mordins mission).

[NoSoyBueno]

First, I will point out that this thread did, in fact, take a serious hit to popularity after the title change. Inflammatory titles do get your voice heard around here.

Second, tonnactus has pointed out many of the issues I am trying to get at here. We can argue all day and night about Thane's and Samara's Loyalty, but the fact remains that these are the only two examples of this type of mission. As fixers0 has noted, the recruitment missions in particular don't really give you anything to care about with the new squadmate precisely because they are all the same. That's not to say that there couldn't be missions that involved killing people, but let's take a step back...

Forget how the recruitment and loyalty missions are right now, and take the perspective that you are now going to design levels for the recruitment of 10 squadmates and the loyalty of 12.

Would you approach this recruitment puzzle by designing all the missions such that the player has to force his way through layers of enemy defenses, regardless of the nature or character of the squadmate?

Would you approach the loyalty mission design such as to make 10 out of 12 missions involve forcing your way through layers of enemy defenses? Would you even do it in the nonsensical case of fighting mechs on Aeia for Jacob's loyalty?

The point I am trying to get at is that the missions do not have to be designed with the story adding up in such a way. There are many ways to create moral dilemmas or develop trust between Shepard and a squadmate, but in only two cases do we find these compared to the dozen I have named in ME1 (those were also just one type: avoid shootout or not; there are, in fact, more types included).

-NSB

Modifié par NoSoyBueno, 15 avril 2011 - 08:03 .

[Iakus]

NoSoyBueno wrote...
 to force his way through layers of enemy defenses, regardless of the nature or character of the squadmate?

Would you approach the loyalty mission design such as to make 10 out of 12 missions involve forcing your way through layers of enemy defenses? Would you even do it in the nonsensical case of fighting mechs on Aeia for Jacob's loyalty?

The point I am trying to get at is that the missions do not have to be designed with the story adding up in such a way. There are many ways to create moral dilemmas or develop trust between Shepard and a squadmate, but in only two cases do we find these compared to the dozen I have named in ME1 (those were also just one type: avoid shootout or not; there are, in fact, more types included).

-NSB

I'd have approached the loyalty missions as something besides "loyalty" but to provide some sort of tangible benefit to increase the odds of surviving teh suicide mission.

For example:  Sidonis would not have been the main focus of Garrus' mission.  Getting the thanix would have been the goal.  Or components for building it.  Or something.  Sidonis could have been worked into it, but dealing with him would have been more of a "side job"

Jack:  The visit to Pragia would have been to find information on getting her an amp upgrade.  the stuff about her past and Aradesh would have simply come with that.

And so on.  These missions would have been about preparing for the SM.  And in doing that, you learn more about the squad and thier own problems.

[bald man in a boat]

Some of the things talked about here are legit and others are hilarious. My biggest beef with the series actually takes place in ME1.

Shep and Saren should've died when we they used the Conduit. The mass relays are not transporter devices and last time I checked, the Presidium had walls and a roof. So why did they not smash into the side of the Citadel and die?

Or to really bake your noodles, should Mass Effect 1 even be possible since the Prothean scientists who first used to the Conduit would've met this exact fate? Squished Protheans = Keepers luv Reapers. Keepers luv Reapers = Sovereign just fires up the Citadel and everybody takes it in the butt. The End.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

I'd have approached the loyalty missions as something besides "loyalty" but to provide some sort of tangible benefit to increase the odds of surviving teh suicide mission.

For example:  Sidonis would not have been the main focus of Garrus' mission.  Getting the thanix would have been the goal.  Or components for building it.  Or something.  Sidonis could have been worked into it, but dealing with him would have been more of a "side job"

Jack:  The visit to Pragia would have been to find information on getting her an amp upgrade.  the stuff about her past and Aradesh would have simply come with that.

And so on.  These missions would have been about preparing for the SM.  And in doing that, you learn more about the squad and thier own problems.

I completely agree!

My biggest gripe with ME2 was  the way the loyalty missions were introduced. Although I understand the LMs' are optional (from both the gamer's perspective and with respect to the narrative), it just seems illogical that every single squad-mate has a personal issue so pressing it must be completed before undertaking the SM in order for them to be 100% focused and loyal to Shepard.

 I think it would have been better if Shepard had to gain their favor through conversations and various choices he/she makes (i.e. DA:Origins).

Modifié par Lucifer_Cheney, 15 avril 2011 - 10:11 .

[Dave666]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Some of the things talked about here are legit and others are hilarious. My biggest beef with the series actually takes place in ME1.

Shep and Saren should've died when we they used the Conduit. The mass relays are not transporter devices and last time I checked, the Presidium had walls and a roof. So why did they not smash into the side of the Citadel and die?

Or to really bake your noodles, should Mass Effect 1 even be possible since the Prothean scientists who first used to the Conduit would've met this exact fate? Squished Protheans = Keepers luv Reapers. Keepers luv Reapers = Sovereign just fires up the Citadel and everybody takes it in the butt. The End.

Yey! Someone else noticed that!  I thought I was the only one.

[bald man in a boat]

Dave666 wrote...

Yey! Someone else noticed that!  I thought I was the only one.

It drives me crazy.  

[Zulu_DFA]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Shep and Saren should've died when we they used the Conduit. The mass relays are not transporter devices and last time I checked, the Presidium had walls and a roof. So why did they not smash into the side of the Citadel and die?

Speed at entry point = speed at exit point. Travelling trough a relay doesn't accelerate you. It... relays you.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 avril 2011 - 10:33 .

[Dave666]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

bald man in a boat wrote...

Shep and Saren should've died when we they used the Conduit. The mass relays are not transporter devices and last time I checked, the Presidium had walls and a roof. So why did they not smash into the side of the Citadel and die?

Speed at entry point = speed at exit point. Travelling trough a relay doesn't accelerate you. It... relays you.

So if as you claim, ships travel through Relays, care to explain 'drift'?

[Zulu_DFA]

Dave666 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

bald man in a boat wrote...

Shep and Saren should've died when we they used the Conduit. The mass relays are not transporter devices and last time I checked, the Presidium had walls and a roof. So why did they not smash into the side of the Citadel and die?

Speed at entry point = speed at exit point. Travelling trough a relay doesn't accelerate you. It... relays you.

So if as you claim, ships travel through Relays, care to explain 'drift'?

"Through" is not the right word actually. "Via" suits better. As for the "drift", it's never explained what exactly causes it, just the fact that a skilled pilot can minimize it.

If you're suggesting that there should have been a drift when Saren and Shepard traveled via the Conduit, I'll remind you that it's not an ordinary relay. It's, in fact, an extraordinarily powerful relay, given that your typical primary relay connects to a nearby star cluster, while the Conduit transported you across half the Galaxy. The travel wasn't instanteneous though: it gave the Normandy the time to go back to the Arcturus Station and the 5th Fleet to mobilize and stanby to attack.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[bald man in a boat]

Sorry Zulu but, uh... yeah:

"Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of space-time between each other. This can propel a starship across enormous distances that would take centuries to traverse, even at FTL speeds. Before a vessel can travel, the relay must be given the amount of mass to transit by the ship's pilot before it is moved into the approach corridor. When a relay is activated, it aligns itself with the corresponding relay before propelling the ship across space."

Long story short: everybody gets propelled into the side of the Citadel.

[Zulu_DFA]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Sorry Zulu but, uh... yeah:

"Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of space-time between each other. This can propel a starship across enormous distances that would take centuries to traverse, even at FTL speeds. Before a vessel can travel, the relay must be given the amount of mass to transit by the ship's pilot before it is moved into the approach corridor. When a relay is activated, it aligns itself with the corresponding relay before propelling the ship across space."

Long story short: everybody gets propelled into the side of the Citadel.

"The side of the Citadel" is beyond this "mass-free corridor", therefore no super-speeds there. Once you clear the "corridor" you're back to your normal speeds.

[bald man in a boat]

^No. The side of the Citadel is right before the end of the corridor. Here's a drawing for you.

Relay >----------------[Side of the Citadel---->Conduit

Unless in your version of Mass Effect the Conduit is actually outside the Citadel.

[Zulu_DFA]

bald man in a boat wrote...

^No. The side of the Citadel is right before the end of the corridor. Here's a drawing for you.

Relay >----------------[Side of the Citadel---->Conduit

Unless in your version of Mass Effect the Conduit is actually outside the Citadel.

And since it "virtually" has no mass, and neither has Shepard and Saren, the collision does not occur.

Same works for the paired relays when due to their orbits, one or both of their respective "anchor" celestial bodies (stars or planets), as well as unspecified and unpredictable number of smaller objects (asteroids, meteors) happen to be in the way during a ship's jump.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 avril 2011 - 11:19 .

[bald man in a boat]

You're still not explaining how they magically get inside. If the relays were "tranporters": no problems.

They're not.

[Zulu_DFA]

bald man in a boat wrote...

You're still not explaining how they magically get inside. If the relays were "tranporters": no problems.

They're not.

How do X-rays get inside your belly?

[bald man in a boat]

Not the same. At all. Here's a cookie for trying.

[Whatever42]

Travelling through the subspace corridor obviously ignores matter that was not accelerated into that corridor. How do we know this? If that wasn't the case, any collision with matter anywhere along that path would destroy the traveling object, which does not seem to occur.

Also, space is not empty. There are atoms of hydrogen and other matter floating around out there, even if the density is very, very low. Now while a spaceship flying around a few thousands kph could ignore those but at these speeds, the friction of those particles would cause tremendous damage to the space craft. Of course, perhaps there are shields that deal with that but anything larger than a couple atoms would pulverize the space craft.

[Zulu_DFA]

@ Dave666 & bald man

Look, guys, of all the availble plot holes, such as unexplained twists, leaps in logic, time paradoxes and lore contradictions, you pick on one that is fully covered by the main titular *fictious* science premise of the Mass Effect universe.

There will be no splat, because it works around it, as evidenced by all the other mass relays. If they worked the way you think they work, there would be significant limitations to travel via relays due to large bodies being in the way, periodically blocking the corridor, and multiple catastrophes due to small bodies happening to be in the way, let alone gases and random atoms eroding the travelling ships along the way.

One more time: zero mass = you're some kind of pure energy wave sci-fi stuff, and such things as "walls" don't exist for you.

You wanna real plot hole, click here.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2011 - 12:02 .

[Jzadek72]

Woah. I think I just stepped into a portal to a early 2010.