270 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
You wanna real plot hole, click here.

Zulu, I'm pretty sure you don't know what "plothole" means. Unless you accept my "something I don't like, believe, nor want" definition.

[Zulu_DFA]

Pacifien wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
You wanna real plot hole, click here.

Zulu, I'm pretty sure you don't know what "plothole" means. Unless you accept my "something I don't like, believe, nor want" definition.

I'm sure there are plot holes that I do like. Example: Gianna Parasini on Illium.

[Pacifien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Zulu, I'm pretty sure you don't know what "plothole" means. Unless you accept my "something I don't like, believe, nor want" definition.

I'm sure there are plot holes that I do like. Example: Gianna Parasini on Illium.

...



I see.

You're using the term incorrectly, by the way.

I think that's about as much as I want to go off-topic about it, though. I think your ship has sailed and you're beyond wanting to correct yourself.

[bald man in a boat]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

One more time: zero mass = you're some kind of pure energy wave sci-fi stuff, and such things as "walls" don't exist for you.

Fail. Remember: "Virtually mass free" isn't zero mass. And that = big ass squish.

So uh, yeah. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

[Zulu_DFA]

Pacifien wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Zulu, I'm pretty sure you don't know what "plothole" means. Unless you accept my "something I don't like, believe, nor want" definition.

I'm sure there are plot holes that I do like. Example: Gianna Parasini on Illium.

...

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

I see.

You're using the term incorrectly, by the way.

I think that's about as much as I want to go off-topic about it, though. I think your ship has sailed and you're beyond wanting to correct yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plothole wrote...

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

I argue that Shepard's trial on Earth has no apparent reason within the universe. How am I using the term "plot hole" incorrectly?

bald man in a boat wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

One more time: zero mass = you're some kind of pure energy wave sci-fi stuff, and such things as "walls" don't exist for you.

Fail. Remember: "Virtually mass free" isn't zero mass. And that = big ass squish.

So uh, yeah. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

"Virtually" = maybe it's so maybe it isn't, but for all practical intents and purposes (such as solid objects passing through walls and planets), it is.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[Pacifien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I argue that Shepard's trial on Earth has no apparent reason within the universe. How am I using the term "plot hole" incorrectly?

Quite willfully, it would seem.

[bald man in a boat]

LOL. Move along.

[Zulu_DFA]

Pacifien wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I argue that Shepard's trial on Earth has no apparent reason within the universe. How am I using the term "plot hole" incorrectly?

Quite willfully, it would seem.

What constitutes the incorrectness of my wilful usage of the term "plot hole"?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2011 - 12:54 .

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm sure there are plot holes that I do like. Example: Gianna Parasini on Illium.

Um, what?  How in the hell is that a "plothole"?  It's a coincidence, but so what?  You know exactly what she's doing there and why if you bother to ask.  Not to mention, it's really not part of the plot at all, but largely a self-contained little "vignette".

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 avril 2011 - 01:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm sure there are plot holes that I do like. Example: Gianna Parasini on Illium.

Um, what?  How in the hell is that a "plothole"?  It's a coincidence, but so what?  You know exactly what she's doing there and why if you bother to ask.  Not to mention, it's really not part of the plot at all, but largely a self-contained little "vignette".

Aside from the extremely low prodability of such a coincidence (which, right you are, isn't a plothole of itself)...

"Hey, Shepard, remember you screwed up my best chance to complete an assignment? Wanna do it again?" Herp derp.

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

"Hey, Shepard, remember you screwed up my best chance to complete an assignment? Wanna do it again?" Herp derp.

Still not a plothole.  That just makes the version of Gianna in those particular alternate ME timelines a bit of an idiot for thinking she could guilt trip you or just a glutton for punishment.  Also: she's a questgiver.  That's her function in the game.  A genuine plothole would be her showing up and doing that despite Shep getting her killed in ME1, and it not being due to a bug or a retcon.

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 avril 2011 - 01:34 .

[Whatever42]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm sure there are plot holes that I do like. Example: Gianna Parasini on Illium.

Um, what?  How in the hell is that a "plothole"?  It's a coincidence, but so what?  You know exactly what she's doing there and why if you bother to ask.  Not to mention, it's really not part of the plot at all, but largely a self-contained little "vignette".

Aside from the extremely low prodability of such a coincidence (which, right you are, isn't a plothole of itself)...

"Hey, Shepard, remember you screwed up my best chance to complete an assignment? Wanna do it again?" Herp derp.

Still not a plothole. Really bad judgement maybe but not a plothole.

Scene 1: man walks down a street in New York City
Scene 2, 30 minutes later: same man rescues his girlfriend from the evil Yakuza in Tokyo, Japan.

No explanation is given. This is a plot hole.

Our hero is trailing a man. The man has a big lunch at home and walks back to work. However, then he suddenly walks two blocks out of his way to get a piece of pizza. No explanation is ever given.

This is not a plot hole. We might not understand the behaviour, it might not be explained to us, but people act far more oddly than this every single day. 

Besides, to really be a plothole, it has to be relevant to the plot. If the bad guy is hiding out in a warehouse and our hero just suddenly drives to the warehouse then its a plothole. Not only does he have no reason to drive to that warehouse but he just suddenly drives to the secret hideout? But if the bad guy was in a downtown penthouse and our hero just decided to drive down to the docks and walk around then its not really a plothole, just an odd behaviour. Maybe he likes walking on the docks?

Gianna deciding to ask us for a favour when we burned her is odd but it has nothing to do with the main plot and people do odder things every day.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 16 avril 2011 - 01:39 .

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

"Hey, Shepard, remember you screwed up my best chance to complete an assignment? Wanna do it again?" Herp derp.

Still not a plothole.  That just makes the version of Gianna in those particular alternate ME timelines a bit of an idiot for thinking she could guilt trip you or just a glutton for punishment.  Also: she's a questgiver.  That's her function in the game.  A genuine plothole would be her showing up and doing that despite Shep getting her killed in ME1, and it not being due to a bug or a retcon.

But it would be effectively a retcon.

And her quest giver position is no explanation, as it's not in-universe. If she is dead, she isn't a quest giver, and neither should she be one, if you have a history of botching her quests.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well that isn't a plot-hole, that's just stupidity and/or desperation on Gianna's part.

Incredible idiocy demonstrated by charachers who are supposed to be competent, such as undercover corporate investigators, is acting out of character, which is a plot hole.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Incredible idiocy demonstrated by charachers who are supposed to be competent, such as undercover corporate investigators, is acting out of character, which is a plot hole.

No, Zulu, that is not a plot-hole. Characters are not guaranteed to be competent. For all you know Gianna got her job by demonstrating incredible oral sensitivty.

But it's been never explained in the narrative!!!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

One could say that Gianna's need/desire to rely on Shepard to get the evidence is an example of her poor skills as an internal affairs investigator.

But in that storyline she nails Anolies on her own. And, knowing Shepard (of that storyline), should expect to have more chances to complete her present task on her own, than with Shepard's "help", and thus refrain from giving him the quest.

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

But it's been never explained in the narrative!!!

So. What.

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

But it would be effectively a retcon.

Unless they intended to it to be one and at least attempted to make that fact clear, it wouldn't actually be one.  It would just be a plothole.

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 avril 2011 - 02:16 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

So she's an idiot then. Maybe an idiot in love or desperate for a friend. This is not a plot-hole. It might be shoddy writing, but it is not a hole in the plot. She acknowledges your past actions, if she didn't then it would be a plot-hole.

Yet she isn't supposed to be an idiot. Hell, even Tali isn't supposed to be an idiot, even though she definitely gets her job due to her connections in the Admiralty Board... Hence, Tali's behavior (crush on my anti-Tali pro-Legion Shepard) is a series of plot holes too.