38 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkalezth]

I saw that in Almraiven, a NWN1 module. NPCs' names were things like "red robed woman". This adds to reality, but I think you should add some directions or descriptions in the journal or somewhere, if a NPC is needed for a quest. I wouldn't want to go talking to everyone in the city about their name or related quests.

Agreed with NTB, area transitions should be as few as possible.

About the OM, I was thinking about something like the map of Westgate, with an OM between the different parts of the city, though I don't know how it would end, since I've never looked at an OM in the toolset. Can you add non-usable placeables (buildings and such) in the OM? If possible, I guess that should add to the closeness feel.

[Leinadi]

Like someone mentioned above, Vizima is probably my favorite RPG city in the 3d area of RPGs as well. Didn't like the game itself much but they did extremely well on the atmosphere. Not just the slummy quarters either, but the Trade quarter was actually pretty nice as well.

Which is an interesting point because I think one always lusts for the "bustle" in cRPG cities. The more market-like quarter which merchants hawking wares, people running around, a very closed-in feel, lots of noise etc. In some ways I think it might be harder to sell more quieter neighborhoods because you lose a lot of the movement and noise. While the architecture might be nice, your senses aren't really being "challenged" in the same way.

My favorite cities are probably Athkatla and Sigil. Think they're both done really well, they certainly feel large enough and the abstraction of isometric 2d coupled with the noise of city life really brings the illusion to life.

Another interesting take on a city is Almraiven for NWN1 (excellent module) where the author divided the town into small areas. A street, a merchant square, an alley. The way he set it up actually really helped the scale of city, It was also rather tightly construced, closed-in spaces, which is always a risk in the NWN games I think. The camera can be a real pain to navigate in such areas but unless it's too extreme, I feel it's worth it to get that special atmosphere.

He also used the naming convention mentioned above. You didn't know NPCs names until they told you. Another small but rather effective thing was that the NPCs would spawn in slightly different places when you revisited an area which gave it a nice feel of being "alive". The day and night cycles also had an effect on what NPCs you saw. Some of them would also respond differently to what clothes you wore. Often in small ways, and you could obviously "game it" by just carrying around various kinds of suits.

I would really recommend checking the mod out if you haven't, if nothing else, it can certainly give some good ideas.

But yeah, I feel one important thing about creating a bustling city is that you really need the layers. The game needs to look, sound and feel alive. But the player must also get plenty of interaction opportunities. because a city would be full of opportunities obviously.

[kamal_]

MokahTGS wrote...

Commoners with no names until you talk to them is a hallmark of Ultima games. Any NPC for that matter. You had to ask them their name and it would then change. All perfectly doable with NWN scripting.

There are, in fact, default scripts to do this. SetFirstName and SetLastName

One thing I'm doing now with factions is that npc's are not named unless you are working for their faction and have been told their name. Just approaching npc x will not reveal their name, they have a generic name. But if you are part of that faction and been told who they are, then approaching them will trigger their name being assigned. Otherwise, they look like a generic npc.

If the player is a native of the city, you can assume they know the names of many relevant npcs already due to just living there. In BG1 for instance, the player should know the name of everyone in Candlekeep.

[kamal_]

Arkalezth wrote...
I agree about the chest/barrels/whatever in the middle of the street, with a cheap gem or a potion inside. That's boring. Same for houses with nothing interesting inside, other than a bit of loot. I remember a few of them in Path of Evil.

I included them because, well, BG had them. But thinking about it, BG1 had them when the player/party is low level and so bits of loot were valuable. PoE had them around level 5 to 10. So the player was more powerful, making the bits of loot from a house kind of a waste of time.

I did get rid of chests of loot in the streets though.

I'm assuming Haplose is referring to the Beggar's Nest in Neverwinter in PoE for the praise, as that was the area that had the most faction type stuff.

[rjshae]

Leinadi wrote...
Which is an interesting point because I think one always lusts for the
"bustle" in cRPG cities. The more market-like quarter which merchants
hawking wares, people running around, a very closed-in feel, lots of
noise etc. In some ways I think it might be harder to sell more quieter
neighborhoods because you lose a lot of the movement and noise. While
the architecture might be nice, your senses aren't really being
"challenged" in the same way.

Yes, you can probably get a pretty good bustling effect with a single market square area; box in an open plaza with buildings and narrow (Shambles-like) exit streets, but make the interior fairly wide open and filled with traffic and merchant stands. Regular NPCs can then be spawned in at the exits, and if they follow many separate paths the effect would probably seem fairly chaotic and crowded. Throw in merchants, hawkers, clutter, side doors, kids playing, dogs running, the occasional pick-pocket, and some guards.

You could probably use the same logic components with different market square arrangements.

Modifié par rjshae, 28 avril 2011 - 08:58 .

[Obadiah]

MokahTGS wrote...

Commoners with no names until you talk to them is a hallmark of Ultima games. Any NPC for that matter. You had to ask them their name and it would then change. All perfectly doable with NWN scripting.

I had totally forgotten about this. That is a great idea. I'm going to try to add this to my DAO module.

[Edit] Doesn't work in DAO. The NPC names get reset when areas reload.

Modifié par Obadiah, 03 mai 2011 - 02:23 .

[rjshae]

Do you folks have any interesting techniques to add color to your city/town layouts? One thing I've found is that the barricade placeable (the one that looks like a propped up wall of planks) makes for a nice boarded up windows look for some of the buildings. You just line up the outside surface with the window then slide it into the window slot until it merges with the surrounding frame.

[PJ156]

Another idea for windows I got from Alupinu is to use the black box placeable in the window to stop it being lit at night. Makes a building appear deserted.

[Omega27]

(Opinion) a great city/village includes a hand full of interactive npc/commoners. some that have their own thoughts, some that relate to the the current quest. Having many buildings some use able if not all. Street merchants, and a gathering area. In my mod E.O.A, ive done this with the capitol kingdom "Alexandrio". it has its main district, along with three others connecting to castle grounds, with a nice scenery. the port and nobles district.

[rjshae]

Has anybody experimented with "talking doors"? I.e. clicking on a door produces a bark string from a virtual person on the other side.

[kamal_]

rjshae wrote...

Has anybody experimented with "talking doors"? I.e. clicking on a door produces a bark string from a virtual person on the other side.

Yes. I know Lance Botelle has.

[MokahTGS]

kamal_ wrote...

rjshae wrote...

Has anybody experimented with "talking doors"? I.e. clicking on a door produces a bark string from a virtual person on the other side.

Yes. I know Lance Botelle has.

I also did this for my Halloween Mod entry.  The Player needed to speak to Burbo Thumpknoggin to be let into the tavern.

[Arkalezth]

MoW has one of those doors too, someone asks for a password to let you in.

[Omega27]

rjshae wrote...

Has anybody experimented with "talking doors"? I.e. clicking on a door produces a bark string from a virtual person on the other side.

I have, turned one into a store think i was to lazy to make areas.