208 réponses à ce sujet

[Boiny Bunny]

First some (brief) examples:

* Waves of enemies spawning out of nowhere, magically teleporting onto the battlefield.

The game doesn't even bother trying to justify this.  They just fall out of the sky (even when indoors), or teleport in.  Immersion broken.  Even worse when said enemies are wearing full suits of armour (e.g. templars) and drop from the sky.

* Enemies exploding regardless of how they are killed

Yes, a ****** from a dagger will make an enemy explode, their limbs flying all over the screen, along with about 3x as much blood as a human body should contain.

* Dozens of enemies in each encounter

Simply not believable - should I really believe that Hawke kills over 30 people in each fight?  That each gang in Kirkwall has over 300 members?

* Every encounter turns into combat.

It doesn't seem to matter what social options you use, what the quest is about, or where you are.  Ineveitably, every quest seems to turn into masses of combat.  And masses of combat on the way.  There are some quests in the game which arguably should have nothing to do with combat (e.g. The Long Road - Aveline's Act 2 companion quest) - without spoiling anything, this quest has had combat shoehorned into it for no good reason, utterly destroying the immersion.  I was so shocked in Act 3 when the de Launcet sub-quest had no combat, I almost fell out of my chair!

I mean, combat is a big part of DA.  But not so much that there shouldn't be any quests that don't have combat.  Whatever happened to quests like that one on Dantooine in KOTOR where you had to solve the murder by talking to the 2 suspects, the evidence droid, and the jedi master?  That was arguably the best quest on Dantooine, and didn't involve a smidgeon of combat.

But I digress.  It just seems unrealistic that you can never negotiate your way out of a large fight, or avoid it altogether.

All of these things just sort of continually yell out at me "I am a videogame!".

That's not always a bad thing either - when you look at a game like Ninja Gaiden it's not really an issue.  It kind of adds to the game that it is so silly and unrealistic.  But I've never really thought of Bioware games that way.

They're meant to be immersive, aren't they?

How did you feel about immersion in DA2?  Were you immersed the whole time - or was there something that just kind of took you out of being Hawke, and reminded you of the fact that you were just sitting in a room playing a videogame?


EDIT: Some other immersion breakers others have listed in this thread

* Mages can teleport - this breaks an important point of lore about the Dragon Age universe.  For any who care about the lore, breaks the immersion

* Recycled environments - need I say more?

* Tempars not noticing Hawke is a mage for nearly the entire game - even worse, asking Hawke if he/she has seen any apostate mages around!  Also, not noticing if Hawke is a blood mage or casting blood magic in front of them!

* Over the top animations which are not even remotely close to being realistic.  Have a very anime feel to them.  Of course, this may appeal to some rather than put them off.

* Virtually not a single thing in the city changes over the 7 years you are there.  The exact same NPCs stand on the streets wearing the exact same clothing saying the exact same thing.  In Act 3, there are STILL NPCs in the keep waiting to see the Viscount (...bug?)  One NPC in the Blooming Rose actually makes a joke about this in Act 3, saying she needs to get a haircut as she hasn't changed her hairstyle in seven years.  At least Bioware can make fun of their own game I guess.

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 16 avril 2011 - 01:00 .

[Eurypterid]

I find there are moments like that in most RPGs, but DA2 does seem to have cornered the market on it, yes.

[Nimpe]

It's a videogame.

[caradoc2000]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Every encounter turns into combat.

It doesn't seem to matter what social options you use, what the quest is about, or where you are.  Ineveitably, every quest seems to turn into masses of combat.

To be fair, there are several quests that can be solved with limited violence (and I don't mean the fetch and carry ones).

[Aaleel]

My main problem was that the game didn't do what it said. Which was tell a story over a decade. Nothing about this game made me think time was passing. Varric should have had more narrative parts then he did.

Seasons should have changed, the city should have changed, people in the city should have changed. Decisions within the city and relationships with people in the city should have been made and grown through the Acts to something more by the end of the game.

To spend so much time in the city, it offered nothing, it was deserted and you came across more gang members than regular citizens. It was always 1:00 AM, or 1:00 PM. I just failed at the goal.

[Boiny Bunny]

Nimpe wrote...

It's a videogame.

Yes it is.  And sometimes, a videogame is so immersive, that you forget that you are playing a videogame, and you are simply the character in the world.  Similar to reading an excellent book.  When something sad happens, you feel sad - you don't just look blankly at the screen and think "Well that person that meant everything to my character just died.  Oh well.  Moving onto the next combat!"

I appreciate that everybody gets different things out of games.  For me, the main two things that make games enjoyable are immersion and intelligent difficulty.  DA2 doesn't really have either.  I never really cared in any of the more emotional parts of the game, and was constantly pulled out of the world by the things I've listed above.  I won't go into the 'intelligent difficulty' thing here though.

At any rate, I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who don't care about immersion - in which case, Dragon Age 2 is probably a more enjoyable experience for them than I find it to be.  That's fine - but not really the point of this topic.

I'm simply asking, were you immersed in the game or not?  By your response, I take it that you were not immersed in the game at any point, and aren't really bothered by that fact.

[erynnar]

I never got into it the way I did with DAO. There were times in the Deep Roads *cough* Broodmother poem *cough, cough* where I did not want to keep going. I actually felt I was there and it creeped me out...then my darling husband turned off the lights so I could play it in the dark.

[Dragoonlordz]

When I first met the King in DAo I treated him like a douché because came across too nieve and nice so thought he had some secret agenda. When returned to Ostagar I actually felt really bad/guilty about how I treated the guy and how he had good intentions but was betrayed. In DA2 I could feed Hawkes entire family to the ogre at start before jumping in the ogres mouth myself (after playing through first time) and felt no guilt about it ever after.

How do I feel about immersion in DA2? Lemme answer that with a comic saw before.



The only time in the whole game I felt anything at all for the characters was twice, once when I just wanted to slap Merrill so hard her head would not stop spinning for hundreds of years due to how dumb she is with the whole mirror nonsense. Other time was actually I had a level of respect of the Arishok and felt his character was more impressive than all the rest put together.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 02:29 .

[_Aine_]

DA2 is kind of like the velvet-elvis of the Dragon Age series to me. It is ok, entertaining enough for what it is. But compared to what came before it.... no not immersive. It is sometimes hard to forgive something its predecessor.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Oh look this thread again...

[Dragoonlordz]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Oh look this thread again...

If you have nothing to add then keep going, go troll another thread one that doesn't offend you.

[Boiny Bunny]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Oh look this thread again...

Oh look...this post again?

We can waste all day discussing how we've all discussed this before, except that I haven't and if you have no interest in the topic, what are you doing here? 

[Boiny Bunny]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

When I first met the King in DAo I treated him like a douché because came across too nieve and nice so thought he had some secret agenda. When returned to Ostagar I actually felt really bad/guilty about how I treated the guy and how he had good intentions but was betrayed. In DA2 I could feed Hawkes entire family to the ogre at start before jumping in the ogres mouth myself (after playing through first time) and felt no guilt about it ever after.

How do I feel about immersion in DA2? Lemme answer that with a comic saw before.



The only time in the whole game I felt anything at all for the characters was twice, once when I just wanted to slap Merrill so hard her head would not stop spinning for hundreds of years due to how dumb she is with the whole mirror nonsense. Other time was actually I had a level of respect of the Arishok and felt his character was more impressive than all the rest put together.

I agree - the Arishok was without a doubt the best character in the game.  If only they could have figured out a way to integrate him further into the game.

[Dragoonlordz]

Yeh I loved the dude he was extremely well written and assigned a personality that really did him justice. It's a shame the main character wasn't him instead of Hawke (though as mentioned elsewhere Hawke I thought wasn't main character either it was Anders who holds the real power in Kirkwall and is the most important person there shown at the end).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 02:39 .

[Morroian]

I was immersed and not all the quests were solved by fighting. The balance seemed to me to be similar to DAO. 1 complaint I had about DAO was wanting more quests to be solved through other means.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

It doesn't offend me I completely agree Very valid points I just don't see the point in rehashing the same old complaining sessions. Besides you guys get so militant when your mocked it makes for good reading

[Aaleel]

I thought the Arishok was the best written character in the game, and that's why Act 2 IMHO was the best of the acts by far.

[Dragoonlordz]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

It doesn't offend me I completely agree Very valid points I just don't see the point in rehashing the same old complaining sessions. Besides you guys get so militant when your mocked it makes for good reading

Mocking someone only belittles yourself. If have to revert to child like responses in order to get enjoyment, it isn't something to be proud of. If a thread is made that noone cares about or wishes to discuss it very quickly fades away therefore only the ones that people wish to discusss actually stay on the front of the forum. Until the time it either fades away or is talked about enough for everyone to have had their say who wish to say something then I advise those with distaste for the topic just don't enter it and instead talk in the ones that interest them.

[Eragondragonrider]

Well I have the 360 version of DA2 and until today if just felt like a button masher. It felt a lot like ME2 just with a little less story. It seams like DA2 didn't have an identity of what type of game it wanted to be, felt more like an FFXIII clone then a USA RPG. When I finished the game it felt like I only got 50% percent of the story that was trying to be told, and now I am waiting for the rest.

[Boiny Bunny]

Morroian wrote...

I was immersed and not all the quests were solved by fighting. The balance seemed to me to be similar to DAO. 1 complaint I had about DAO was wanting more quests to be solved through other means.

I disagree.  I think it's a structural difference.  DA:O generally had non-combat areas, and combat areas.

Each section of the game (more or less) had a 'town' area where you could enter houses, talk to a bunch of NPCs, get a bunch of quests, then go into the combat area/dungeon (e.g. Dalish camp then the Brecillian forest then ruins).

Take Redcliffe for example.  You get there, do a small fight, then have to talk to multiple people, and do a bunch of things around town, including persuading the blacksmith to help in exchange for rescuing his daughter, get the dwarf to join in the fight, and the elf in the tavern.  You can make the barkeep join in the fight and end up with his barmaid owning the tavern!  Then give a morale speech etc.  THEN you get attacked.

Then you fight through the castle, and are presented with a slighlty perculiar dilemma where you can either go up and kill the boy, or save the mages then enter the fade to save him.  THEN, you have to go and find the ashes of Andraste to cure Eamon.

If I could translate Redcliffe into DA2, I imagine it would go something like:

- Arrive at Redcliffe.  Fight 2 waves of skeletons (so far the same)
- Talk to Teagan.  He tells you attack is coming.
- Attack arrives.  Fight 20 waves of skeletons.
- Teagan tells you to go clear the castle.
- You go to the castle, kill everything.  A revenant appears, you kill it and 20 waves of skeletons with it.
- With the revenant dead, Connor is freed and Eamon instantly cured.  No decisions, no talking, just combat.

[_Aine_]

I love a ton of the aspects of the game, in isolation. When they all came together was where it fell a bit short for me personally. Arishok was one of the "bits" that I just loved. I loved most of the Qunari quests actually. Some of the characters are just fantastic too, it is their framing/presentation that makes them harder to know and like I think, rather than what is in them.

[Cowboy_christo]

Nuff said

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

Boiny Bunny wrote...
If I could translate Redcliffe into DA2, I imagine it would go something like:

- Arrive at Redcliffe.  Fight 2 waves of skeletons (so far the same)
- Talk to Teagan.  He tells you attack is coming.
- Attack arrives.  Fight 20 waves of skeletons.
- Teagan tells you to go clear the castle.
- You go to the castle, kill everything.  A revenant appears, you kill it and 20 waves of skeletons with it.
- With the revenant dead, Connor is freed and Eamon instantly cured.  No decisions, no talking, just combat.

I can understand some exaggeration for effect to emphasize the monotony that comes from multiple waves of enemies. But the bolded line is completely unfair - you'd easily be able to navigate a path to end at Top Right: [arrows] I won't use blood magic. Bottom Right: [arrows] Ritual it is. Bottom Left: [star, if you finished Broken Circle first] The mages owe me.

DA2 tells a story, and while there are a lot (too many, even) of story events that are happening around Hawke and not because of Hawke, the player's influence on the game is not nonexistant.

Besides, if you completely skipped to "Eamon is cured", you'd miss the opportunity to shove more fights in the player's face in the rest of the mansion, in the Fade, and in Haven. Not to mention major rivalry points for Wynne and Leliana. And that'd be completely against DA2's design paradigm.

Modifié par DragonOfWhiteThunder, 15 avril 2011 - 03:05 .

[snackrat]

There were only two issues with this game I could not stand:

-- endless pointless combat, and
-- endless pointless waves.

I hope they update the toolset so someone can make a "Still Waters - NO MORE WAVES!" mod that just makes enemies tougher instead of spamming you wtith trash mobs. :I

[Johnsen1972]

I have to agree, the Arishok is the best written char in the game. There are just about 6 min of epicness in the whole game. And most of them involve the arishok. The rest feels dumb. The story and the characters and NPC's are all below Bioware standards. (ok, Varric, Fenris and Aveline are well made, but thats it.) Merrill is completly naiv and stupid, Isabela exaggerated, Sebastian predictable and boring and they just completly screwed up the funny and sarcastic apostate Anders from Awakening and made him completly unbelivable.


6 minutes epicness in a whole game with almost no replayability, thats quite weak for a 60$ game.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 avril 2011 - 03:31 .