208 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Cowboy_christo wrote...





Nuff said

I hope you put this on the motivationals thread! That is too friggin' funny, and sad...yes, very, very sad.

[PaulSX]

Cowboy_christo wrote...





Nuff said

lol, this is brilliant

[_Aine_]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

I have to agree, the Arishok is the best written char in the game. There are just about 6 min of epicness in the whole game. And most of them involve the arishok. 

I knew I liked the Arishok when I realized that my mage stood no real threat of giving herself over to demons, but that she might just sell the entire city of Kirkwall if the Arishok would like her enough afterwards.      At least once. 

[erynnar]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

I have to agree, the Arishok is the best written char in the game. There are just about 6 min of epicness in the whole game. And most of them involve the arishok. The rest feels dumb. The story and the characters and NPC's are all below Bioware standards. (ok, Varric, Fenris and Aveline are well made, but thats it.) Merrill is completly naiv and stupid, Isabela exaggerated, Sebastian predictable and boring and they just completly screwed up the funny and sarcastic apostate Anders from Awakening and made him completly unbelivable.


6 minutes epicness in a whole game with almost no replayability, thats quite weak for a 60$ game.

Okay that made the game look like a whole bunch more fun than it was. That rocked!  And I am with Anders, a quick death now or a slow one later. I would rather die fighting.  Guess that's why I have trouble siding withe mage raping/ tranquil them all  templars despite BioWare trying to make it a difficult decision for me.

edited because I forgot to put that Act 2 was my favorite because the Arishok was so damn awesome.  He really was better than all the others combined.

Modifié par erynnar, 15 avril 2011 - 03:44 .

[Johnsen1972]

erynnar wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

I have to agree, the Arishok is the best written char in the game. There are just about 6 min of epicness in the whole game. And most of them involve the arishok. The rest feels dumb. The story and the characters and NPC's are all below Bioware standards. (ok, Varric, Fenris and Aveline are well made, but thats it.) Merrill is completly naiv and stupid, Isabela exaggerated, Sebastian predictable and boring and they just completly screwed up the funny and sarcastic apostate Anders from Awakening and made him completly unbelivable.


6 minutes epicness in a whole game with almost no replayability, thats quite weak for a 60$ game.

Okay that made the game look like a whole bunch more fun than it was. That rocked!  And I am with Anders, a quick death now or a slow one later. I would rather die fighting.  Guess that's why I have trouble siding withe mage raping/ tranquil them all  templars despite BioWare trying to make it a difficult decision for me.

edited because I forgot to put that Act 2 was my favorite because the Arishok was so damn awesome.  He really was better than all the others combined.

The fact, that you cant change the story with your actions made Anders so unbelivable imo. No matter what you do, help him or refuse to help him, treat him nice or treat him bad, he will be the stupid terrorist at the end. Anders was one of my favorite chars in Awakening. I loved him. And now I hate him.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 avril 2011 - 03:50 .

[Dio Demon]

After about three years don't you think at least one of your companions would change their hairstyle think about it who would have the same hairstyle for seven or more years. Also the complete and total personality change of Anders if you played da:a Awakening it ruins the character for you, 1st problem I don't think Anders' nose was that long in awakening and also he was sarcastic and enjoyed poking a little fun at everyone else especially Oghren. But in da2 he only makes fun of templars.

[jds1bio]

What was so cool about the Arishok?

He sat around for a few years mocking everything and everyone he came into contact with, then became angry when the entity he had respected the most said and did something he didn't like.

Does that sound familiar?

[Serpieri Nei]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Oh look this thread again...

Oh Look this Post again...

[Grovermancer]

Yes, the game is shallow.   The combat just reinforces that.


On top of all the other flaws.  Inexcusable.


It truly is sad.  The DA mythos had such epic potential.  DA2 KINDOF touches on it, but never realizes it, in any way.  Maybe a few 'blips' here and there, but that's not enough.

It doesn't quite work, does it?


It's better to not do something at all, than to do it half-arsed.  That just ruins it.  Like DA2 pretty much did.


Depressing.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 15 avril 2011 - 04:10 .

[mordarwarlock]

I agree - the Arishok was without a doubt the best character in the game. If only they could have figured out a way to integrate him further into the game.

^this

I felt sad after chapter 2, heck, I wanted to side with the qunari just on the basis of better developed characters than all of kirkwall put together

then when I reached act 3 I really wished such option existed

What was so cool about the Arishok?

He sat around for a few
years mocking everything and everyone he came into contact with, then
became angry when the entity he had respected the most said and did
something he didn't like.

Does that sound familiar?

it is not about what he did, because honestly, I can't agree more on him doing nothing but sit in his chair for 6 years

but the character is developed along with his dialogues and voice acting much better than any other character in kirkwall sans Varric

Modifié par mordarwarlock, 15 avril 2011 - 04:12 .

[Dragoonlordz]

jds1bio wrote...

What was so cool about the Arishok?

He sat around for a few years mocking everything and everyone he came into contact with, then became angry when the entity he had respected the most said and did something he didn't like.

Does that sound familiar?

Familiar yes but not in the way you imply. Your assumption is wrong because your trying to link him with those who disliked DA2 when in reality anyone can see he has more in common with John, Chris and devs monitoring these forums. Sitting in their homes/offices watching the world of the forums and the infighting and when lose patience step in and shut down threads. The Arishok was the best made character in the game, if you don't think so then I find that odd to say the least. His presence/personality and VO as well as design he was amazing compared to the rest of the cliché cast of characters.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 04:20 .

[The Angry One]

Um yeah, you're going to accuse the others of being cliche while praising the Arishok?

The big, tough macho man? Yeah that's so original.
To say nothing of the fact that the Arishok has no morality - and little mind - of his own. He follows the directives given by the Qun. Now, you could call that interesting as a concept, but as a character he is a robot.

Modifié par The Angry One, 15 avril 2011 - 04:30 .

[jds1bio]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

What was so cool about the Arishok?

He sat around for a few years mocking everything and everyone he came into contact with, then became angry when the entity he had respected the most said and did something he didn't like.

Does that sound familiar?

Familiar yes but not in the way you imply. Your assumption is wrong because your trying to link him with those who disliked DA2 when in reality anyone can see he has more in common with John, Chris and devs monitoring these forums. Sitting in their homes/offices watching the world of the forums and the infighting and when lose patience step in and shut down threads. The Arishok was the best made character in the game, if you don't think so then I find that odd to say the least. His presence/personality and VO as well as design he was amazing compared to the rest of the cliché cast of characters.

I'm not linking the Arishok with those who disliked DA2.  That's not fair to the people who disliked DA2 and could explain why without resorting to insulting fellow community members and entire groups of people. 

You find my opinion odd because it doesn't agree with yours, fine.  That too, is your opinion.  As is the description of the cast as cliche.

But, you've made an interesting comparison there regarding the moderators.  Well, this is after all their world, not yours or mine.  We are just invited guests.  Do you follow house rules when you are in someone else's home?  Or not?  And if you think the Arishok is more like the moderators, then why would you think that beyond voice and looks, he's so cool?

[Merced652]

I'm sure it was intended to be immersive, but it wasn't for me, though it probably was for some others. The reason i never became immersed are numerous and i probably will fail to mention them all.

The first reason i never became immersed is probably the most obvious for someone who plays rpgs in a similar fashion to me; that being the voiced protagonist. I was constantly pulled out of character because there were so many lines that were spoken that i did not prompt. I'm not talking about battle shouts or things of that nature, but of actual cut-scenes where i would expect to have unilateral control over what i said or at least the intent of what i said. This wasn't the case in far too many instances. Cut-scenes that begin non-interactive often are accompanied by lines you never actually select by any means other than your dominant personality. Bravo for giving me some choice in the matter i suppose, but it constantly destroyed my immersion because life is about circumstance. Life essentially is the circumstances by which we live, so i would expect that circumstances would dictate that i respond differently depending on them. However bioware didn't think any of that would matter, much like reused areas. 

The second issue that would've broken my immersion had issue number one ever allowed me to become immersed was the combat and animations resulting from it. The sliding, the teleporting, the epic leaps, the exploding corpses, the ketchup packet blood effects... Need i really go on about this?

The third reason is essentially the reused areas and the fedex quests. The reused maps broke immersion because there was no sense of adventure when i went in to the same cave the third time and every subsequent time after. At that point i knew exactly where enemy encounters were likely(much like cover in me2) and therefore was never surprised. I was also never interested with what would actually be in the cave because of the tedium involved in both the reused map and combat. The fedex quests were a minor annoyance and one i could even forgive if there were more like them that actually had a story or resulted in an additional side-quest. The reason they broke immersion was basically because i picked up an item, which didn't have a description mind you, yet i knew who it belonged to and where to find them. This could work if i ever chose to RP a clairvoyant. Sadly doing so would just be a license to meta-game my little heart out, though i would never RP in a play-through in which i was also meta-gaming.

edit: I did indeed forget one immersion breaking issue i had. Its highly subjective but is basically all the railroading that went on. Because this is a no spoiler section i can't really given adequate examples, but being subjective they are highly debatable(or not debatable depending on perspective).

Modifié par Merced652, 15 avril 2011 - 04:40 .

[Cataca]

Boiny Bunny wrote...
* Every encounter turns into combat.

It doesn't seem to matter what social options you use, what the quest is about, or where you are.  Ineveitably, every quest seems to turn into masses of combat.  And masses of combat on the way.  There are some quests in the game which arguably should have nothing to do with combat (e.g. The Long Road - Aveline's Act 2 companion quest) - without spoiling anything, this quest has had combat shoehorned into it for no good reason, utterly destroying the immersion.  I was so shocked in Act 3 when the de Launcet sub-quest had no combat, I almost fell out of my chair!en't they?

This is by far and wide my biggest beef with the game, trying to be an action game instead of an rpg. I would like to say that they have too much emphasis on combat instead of other stuff, but lets be honest here... what other stuff?

There is no way to play it smart, or solve problems other than killing everything in your way. Do i really want to roleplay someone with the problem solving skills of a bulldozer?

[Roxlimn]

There are multiple encounters in the game where you can avoid combat if you choose the right options.

[Boiny Bunny]

Roxlimn wrote...

There are multiple encounters in the game where you can avoid combat if you choose the right options.

Yes there are a few (I recall one or two where if you have the right companion and ask them they can stop the battle before it begins), but it still doesn't change the fact that the combat is thrown in your face far too often.

Some of the quests are just shamelss, literaly just sending you from Point A to B to C to D to E, each with a four wave battle, and the last with an 8 wave battle.  Another example, Gamlen's Greatest Treasure - a quest that shouldn't in theory require any combat, but somehow, the game manages to find an incredibly poor excuse to have you engage in at least 3 different combat scenarios for no good reason.

[jds1bio]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

There are multiple encounters in the game where you can avoid combat if you choose the right options.

Yes there are a few (I recall one or two where if you have the right companion and ask them they can stop the battle before it begins), but it still doesn't change the fact that the combat is thrown in your face far too often.

Some of the quests are just shamelss, literaly just sending you from Point A to B to C to D to E, each with a four wave battle, and the last with an 8 wave battle.  Another example, Gamlen's Greatest Treasure - a quest that shouldn't in theory require any combat, but somehow, the game manages to find an incredibly poor excuse to have you engage in at least 3 different combat scenarios for no good reason.

Yeah, some of the quests are like a Law & Order episode, hopping from place to place until one of them ends up spilling the truth.

I guess I didn't mind the combat as much when I was being more dastardly regarding this quest.

[Roxlimn]

Boiny Bunny:

By last count, I had like maybe 4 to 6 major encounters you can choose to end peacefully depending on how you choose. In fact, you can even choose not to end the second Act with combat.  In fact, there's so many combats you can avoid in the game that I accidentally avoid combats I regret avoiding.  I've had to reload a few times just to get combats I didn't know I could get.

There are two major game mechanics in DA2: combat and interactive fiction.  That's it.  There's the doll game and the statistics game that feed into the combat game, but those are minor.

The last time Bioware tried to inject a minigame into one of their products, we got planet scanning.  Do you really want more planet scanning in DA2?  Is that what DA2 needs to make it into a truly great game?

Modifié par Roxlimn, 15 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[wowpwnslol]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

First some (brief) examples:

* Waves of enemies spawning out of nowhere, magically teleporting onto the battlefield.

The game doesn't even bother trying to justify this.  They just fall out of the sky (even when indoors), or teleport in.  Immersion broken.  Even worse when said enemies are wearing full suits of armour (e.g. templars) and drop from the sky.

* Enemies exploding regardless of how they are killed

Yes, a ****** from a dagger will make an enemy explode, their limbs flying all over the screen, along with about 3x as much blood as a human body should contain.

* Dozens of enemies in each encounter

Simply not believable - should I really believe that Hawke kills over 30 people in each fight?  That each gang in Kirkwall has over 300 members?

* Every encounter turns into combat.

It doesn't seem to matter what social options you use, what the quest is about, or where you are.  Ineveitably, every quest seems to turn into masses of combat.  And masses of combat on the way.  There are some quests in the game which arguably should have nothing to do with combat (e.g. The Long Road - Aveline's Act 2 companion quest) - without spoiling anything, this quest has had combat shoehorned into it for no good reason, utterly destroying the immersion.  I was so shocked in Act 3 when the de Launcet sub-quest had no combat, I almost fell out of my chair!

I mean, combat is a big part of DA.  But not so much that there shouldn't be any quests that don't have combat.  Whatever happened to quests like that one on Dantooine in KOTOR where you had to solve the murder by talking to the 2 suspects, the evidence droid, and the jedi master?  That was arguably the best quest on Dantooine, and didn't involve a smidgeon of combat.

But I digress.  It just seems unrealistic that you can never negotiate your way out of a large fight, or avoid it altogether.

All of these things just sort of continually yell out at me "I am a videogame!".

That's not always a bad thing either - when you look at a game like Ninja Gaiden it's not really an issue.  It kind of adds to the game that it is so silly and unrealistic.  But I've never really thought of Bioware games that way.

They're meant to be immersive, aren't they?

How did you feel about immersion in DA2?  Were you immersed the whole time - or was there something that just kind of took you out of being Hawke, and reminded you of the fact that you were just sitting in a room playing a videogame?

It's an action/adventure game designed for consoles. And you expected immersion? Hahahahahaha







Ha

[Killer3000ad]

Bioware streamlined the immersion to appeal to the mass audience. Also they needed more space and time to work on the awesome button.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 15 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[Cataca]

Roxlimn wrote...

Boiny Bunny:

By last count, I had like maybe 4 to 6 major encounters you can choose to end peacefully depending on how you choose. In fact, you can even choose not to end the second Act with combat.  In fact, there's so many combats you can avoid in the game that I accidentally avoid combats I regret avoiding.  I've had to reload a few times just to get combats I didn't know I could get.

There are two major game mechanics in DA2: combat and interactive fiction.  That's it.  There's the doll game and the statistics game that feed into the combat game, but those are minor.

The last time Bioware tried to inject a minigame into one of their products, we got planet scanning.  Do you really want more planet scanning in DA2?  Is that what DA2 needs to make it into a truly great game?

I can only speak for myself, but you didnt really understand the point. Different ways to resolve quests would be something i would like. Something that was present in DnD games with things like diplomacy/bluff/animal empathy/pickpocket..... and with science/stealth/repair/diplomacy/.... in fallout games. Not fight or fight, thats uncreative at best, actually its just a step backwards. Good action is neat and all, but in dragon age its the only thing there is. And for that, its just not good enough, frankly. 

[Broken Promise]

Nimpe wrote...

It's a videogame.

^this
We should stop expecting miracles from high-budged cross-platform software products developed to pass-the-time.

[simonc4175]

Cataca wrote...

I can only speak for myself, but you didnt really understand the point. Different ways to resolve quests would be something i would like. Something that was present in DnD games with things like diplomacy/bluff/animal empathy/pickpocket..... and with science/stealth/repair/diplomacy/.... in fallout games. Not fight or fight, thats uncreative at best, actually its just a step backwards. Good action is neat and all, but in dragon age its the only thing there is. And for that, its just not good enough, frankly. 

The DnD games were based on a different ruleset to DA:O,  I'm sure I read that for DA they designed their own rule set so it didn't have the DnD options.

Origins certainly didn't have bluff/empathy or pickpocket to solve quests it was click 1,2,3 etc untill you memorized the right combination of answers.


ME2 and Fallout have the system where skills can open optional dialog which would would be good for DA but even in DA2 a specific companion can alter the outcome.

All your Bioware games dating back to BG are action adventure RPG's so they contain combat because if they didn't it would be boring game to play.

[PlumPaul93]

I think it's meant to be immersive it just fails horribly at it.