208 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

The constant combat was certainly an immersion breaker. So were the mobwaves, teleporting mages/hunters/rogues/whathaveyou.

My problem was that I never really got *in* the game. Hawke never felt like MY Hawke. In the end, I simply gave up and let her be bioware's Hawke. I simply just moved her around. Nothing mattered anyway, the path was set, and there was no way but straight along what others wanted Hawke to be.

For example, I realized early on that they (designers) wanted me to have Anders in the party. The way he was set up (lone healer) screamed at me "we want you to take him, but we want it to appear as if we are giving you a choice".

So I ignored him. Utterly. Never talked to the guy except for the initial quest. That silly little arrow was right in the middle of friend/rival all the time. However, the ending was exactly the same for neglected Anders as for the friend/lover Anders. And darnit if pixel Anders didn't act as if he and Hawke were the best of friends.

The silly quests (you know which ones I mean, right?), the wheel that more often than not had me do a facepalm, the waves, the mind boggling plot-holes, the endlessly repeating areas, the voice coming out of her mouth, the unbelievable time-warps, the dead city - all of that and more never even gave me a chance in he!! to get *in* the game an *be* Hawke.

[FellowerOfOdin]

You forgot about the fact that the templars do not give a damn about Hawke being a mage...the writers just let the immersion train crash into a massive brick wall.

[erynnar]

Sabriana wrote...

The constant combat was certainly an immersion breaker. So were the mobwaves, teleporting mages/hunters/rogues/whathaveyou.

My problem was that I never really got *in* the game. Hawke never felt like MY Hawke. In the end, I simply gave up and let her be bioware's Hawke. I simply just moved her around. Nothing mattered anyway, the path was set, and there was no way but straight along what others wanted Hawke to be.

For example, I realized early on that they (designers) wanted me to have Anders in the party. The way he was set up (lone healer) screamed at me "we want you to take him, but we want it to appear as if we are giving you a choice".

So I ignored him. Utterly. Never talked to the guy except for the initial quest. That silly little arrow was right in the middle of friend/rival all the time. However, the ending was exactly the same for neglected Anders as for the friend/lover Anders. And darnit if pixel Anders didn't act as if he and Hawke were the best of friends.

The silly quests (you know which ones I mean, right?), the wheel that more often than not had me do a facepalm, the waves, the mind boggling plot-holes, the endlessly repeating areas, the voice coming out of her mouth, the unbelievable time-warps, the dead city - all of that and more never even gave me a chance in he!! to get *in* the game an *be* Hawke.

This^. And my hubby did that too, same thing. He acted all friendly as if they were buds and my husband hadn't left him behind.

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

You forgot about the fact that the templars do not give a damn about Hawke being a mage...the writers just let the immersion train crash into a massive brick wall.

And this^. I haven't played a mage yet. My husband played a blood mage no less!  He would run in front of the templars and do a spell just for giggles.  Nope, no blood mage here...

[erynnar]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

I have to agree, the Arishok is the best written char in the game. There are just about 6 min of epicness in the whole game. And most of them involve the arishok. The rest feels dumb. The story and the characters and NPC's are all below Bioware standards. (ok, Varric, Fenris and Aveline are well made, but thats it.) Merrill is completly naiv and stupid, Isabela exaggerated, Sebastian predictable and boring and they just completly screwed up the funny and sarcastic apostate Anders from Awakening and made him completly unbelivable.


6 minutes epicness in a whole game with almost no replayability, thats quite weak for a 60$ game.

Okay that made the game look like a whole bunch more fun than it was. That rocked!  And I am with Anders, a quick death now or a slow one later. I would rather die fighting.  Guess that's why I have trouble siding withe mage raping/ tranquil them all  templars despite BioWare trying to make it a difficult decision for me.

edited because I forgot to put that Act 2 was my favorite because the Arishok was so damn awesome.  He really was better than all the others combined.

The fact, that you cant change the story with your actions made Anders so unbelivable imo. No matter what you do, help him or refuse to help him, treat him nice or treat him bad, he will be the stupid terrorist at the end. Anders was one of my favorite chars in Awakening. I loved him. And now I hate him.

Oh I don't hate him, he isn't the real Anders...he is the prisoner you got the key from in Ostagar (same voice actor, and I keep hearing that guy when he talks for Anders).  I named him Norval in my fanfic...so I hate Norval. He did it!

[_Aine_]

I didn't try this so I don't know, is it even possible to NOT recruit Anders or any of the other companions?

[PlumPaul93]

shantisands wrote...

I didn't try this so I don't know, is it even possible to NOT recruit Anders or any of the other companions?

I think you can miss fenris and isabella but anders is forced no matter what.

[_Aine_]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

shantisands wrote...

I didn't try this so I don't know, is it even possible to NOT recruit Anders or any of the other companions?

I think you can miss fenris and isabella but anders is forced no matter what.

huh.  ok thanks for the answer

[Sabriana]

You cannot NOT recruit Anders. He is in your party choices right after his "Karl" quest. The only thing you can do is ignore him thereafter.

Fenris and Isabela are the two you don't need to recruit. If you don't do "Bait and Switch", then Fenris will never appear. You can ignore Isabela as well. I don't know of any others. I'm not sure if you have to do Merrill's recruiting quest, but because Flemeth is involved there, I'm thinking you can't get around that quest.

oops. Ninja'd

Modifié par Sabriana, 15 avril 2011 - 02:40 .

[Sabriana]

erynnar wrote...

Oh I don't hate him, he isn't the real Anders...he is the prisoner you got the key from in Ostagar (same voice actor, and I keep hearing that guy when he talks for Anders).  I named him Norval in my fanfic...so I hate Norval. He did it!

Norval? That is hilarious.

[randName]

There are some nice dialogues, some nice cut-scenes that pull me into the world, the problem is that the city, the interactions with the people of the city, or the lack there of, the repeated caves, the combat and its exploding bodies, all of these constantly push me out.

So no, for me the game is desperately trying not to immerse me outside dialogue (the later is something that actually works well for me)

Modifié par randName, 15 avril 2011 - 03:00 .

[_Aine_]

The cinematics were definitely better. Some of the high rez textures were also. And a good portion of the lighting and character models. Qunari = great.

It wasn't all about criticism. My screenshots look lovely.

[Monica83]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Oh look this thread again...

oh look another fanboy that write again the silly phrase......


Since for me dragon age 2 is a total faliure... Weak story... Weak companion system... Exagerrated combat...Map recycling.... for me this game is designed to broke the immersion,,,,

And Rpg are not simple videogames

[Killjoy Cutter]

Broken Promise wrote...

Nimpe wrote...

It's a videogame.

^this
We should stop expecting miracles from high-budged cross-platform software products developed to pass-the-time.

No, we shouldn't.  We should always expect people to do their jobs well. 

[Tirigon]

Nimpe wrote...

It's a videogame.

So is DAO.

The difference is, DAO is a good one, whereas DA2 is not.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Boiny Bunny wrote...
How did you feel about immersion in DA2?  Were you immersed the whole time - or was there something that just kind of took you out of being Hawke, and reminded you of the fact that you were just sitting in a room playing a videogame?

I'm used to fast flashy moves since I played most fighting games like Tekken, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Dynasty Warrior, Samurai Warrior, Warrior Orochi etc... I also played most eastern MMORPG with strong element of martial art like Perfect World and Mo Sang Online. So DA 2 fast and flashy move isn't new to me. I'm just tired with the waves that come out of nowhere and constantly test my patience for party strategic positioning. Bethany/Merril and Varric are constantly been harassed by enemy from behind and forced my melee class running to-and-fro to protect them.  No other games did that. Even the enemies in Dynasty Warrior 6 don't parachute from sky. It's get repetitive and tiresome. Not to mention Varric tendency to get himself killed by running straight into enemy crowd after being poked from behind by an assassin! 

Anyway, immerse breaker for me mostly from how the narrative been delivered. I said before and I said it again and again. Third person unreliable narrative story-within-story approach is not  appropriate for role playing. Player is removed at the beginning of the game. Player is removed from actual event by exaggeration. Player is removed by  time fast forward mechanism. Player is removed at starting point and ending point making player existence virtually zero in present time. In other word, this type of dumbed down approach don't unfold meaningful impact. It basically tells that everything had already happened and player doesn't do anything. The fact that Hawke lack of exposition at the beginning and mysteriously disappear at the end of DA 2 is difficult to swallow for me because it only show that I don't even know my own character. If Hawke doesn't exist in present time then so do I. If I don't exist in DA 2 current reality then how can there be any connection at all? Without connection to the world how can it be immersive?

[wildannie]

lack of immersion is the biggest problem I have with DA2, for me the most immersion breaking thing is not being able to engage my companions in conversation whenever I want.

When playing DAO I could choose to focus on combat when I wanted, and likewise I could go and have a good natter with the companions when I felt like it. Because being able to speak with them was not necessarily quest related it felt much more organic,and the Wardens friendships with the companions felt more real, thus making the game much more immersive imo.

The re-use of dungeons and spawning of enemies from thin air really didn't help with immersion either but it is the conversation system that bothers me most and it is future developments in this area that will determine where I put my money. Bioware still have me for now but if they keep this format and another developer moves in and provides a more immersive experience, that's where I'll be going for my games.

I do *like* DA2 but thinking about immersion has me reaching for Origins again...

edited so it made more sense 

Modifié par wildannie, 15 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[_Aine_]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Anyway, immerse breaker for me mostly from how the narrative been delivered. I said before and I said it again and again. T

Third person unreliable narrative story-within-story approach is not  appropriate for role playing.

Player is removed at the beginning of the game.
Player is removed from actual event by exaggeration.
Player is removed by  time fast forward mechanism.
Player is removed at starting point and ending point making player existence virtually zero in present time.

In other word, this type of dumbed down approach don't unfold meaningful impact. It basically tells that everything had already happened and player doesn't do anything. The fact that Hawke lack of exposition at the beginning and mysteriously disappear at the end of DA 2 is difficult to swallow for me because it only show that I don't even know my own character. If Hawke doesn't exist in present time then so do I. If I don't exist in DA 2 current reality then how can there be any connection at all? Without connection to the world how can it be immersive?

This was interesting enough to ponder.  Despite *liking* the framed narrative in theory, and maybe even if it was done really really well and was done to include the player and change based on our actions/input, I totally agree that in THIS circumstance at least, it did ruin the chance for immersion.  And people generally want immersion in their RPG.  Action games not as much.  I think trying to be both, hurt them.  

[Killjoy Cutter]

shantisands wrote...

 I think trying to be both, hurt them.  

This is one of the most important lessons that needs to be hammered home to everyone at EA Bioware. 

[AkiKishi]

DA2 does not know what it wants to be. It's not a strategy RPG and it's not an action RPG it's somewhere in the middle and as such fails at both.

ME2 got it more or less right on how to have party members in an action RPG and DA got it more or less right in how to do it in a strategy RPG.

[MOTpoetryION]

I want to say the very first thread i made after playing for a short time was titled "cool game but when does DA2 come out." IMHO this is not DA2


there were alot of thigs that broke it for me . One of the first i think was when spiders dropped down around my party and i looked up and seen nothing but sky . There was nothing they dropped down from . unlike the places in DAO like the holes in the ceiling. And that one place that had a bunch of trees that they came down from.

They even destroyed parts of their own lore at times in regards to blood mages. It left me with the feeling that not only were people born with magic but now it seems that they are also born with the knowing of all the blood magic spells as well . And when backed into a corner could become a blood mage anytime they wanted or needed to. Without having to learn the spells So i guess they get sent to the towers only so they could learn the good spells of magic. huh? Do you see how the lore now is trash by the way things unfolded in this game?

I also wondered why they felt the need to start to make up new/fake metals and woods for stuff?
like aurum, argent, gilt beech, silvered ash.ect ect? When the old ones were just fine? And the old ones felt more real to life, intead of now like some fantasy game.

I also think Imho having two different requirements for the armors greatly reduced the number of unique builds you could come up with for your PC. . That On top of losing alot of the clasees like bard , shapeshifter rouge rangers Ect. Greatly reducing the want to play this game again.

And the weak attempt in responce to our desire or want for a day and night cycle . It was a pretty bad choice if you ask me . It only left me with the feelings of being kind of godlike . Let there be light and there was light. And also that was not Isabella or Zeveran


And once again the fanbois are making excuses saying the game was rushed its great bla bla bla. But its more then just from being rushed. I got the feeling that the game wasnt even made by the bioware team that made the first one? There was to much difference from the exploding bodies. the bodies on the ground sinking into the ground while you are looting them was . The red flashing lights that showed where traps are (in an age where they still use fire for lighting) and disarming one trap disarmed all of the traps . there just wasnt put into this game the level of detail that bioware is known for.
And i understand the need to fix/change the code from DAO mostly because of the port to consoles and the many issues. And i have to say the game does work smother I think they did a great job there kudos for that ONLY

I really feel there should be a standard put in place for DEVs to go by. For how much a game can be changed from the one before it and still be able to call it a sequel . This game in my eyes was not and should not of been called DA2. Way to many of the things that made DAO an awsome game (even with the problems) are no longer present . From the great puzzles , the way gift giving was. Where you had to figure out what gift to give who, Instead of just being told. In this game now give that gift to him or her . In DAO i felt like the people in my company were friends IRL. And felt very connected to them and great sadness at morrigan leaving. They managed to connect me to them more so then any game has ever done. But In this game I felt nothing for any of these emo people at all except maybe betreyal .From isabella anders and fennris And with all the quest markers and being told what to do where to go . And completing quests that i never even pick up by picking some random thing up . And dropping it off to someone i have never seen before . And saying to them here this is yours. (i know that because im a mind reader or it might be just that big marker over your head) was also weak

It did not feel like an RPG at all, more like a PPG ( puppet playing game) I was left with a feeling that i really wasnt having an impact in the world no matter what i did or what choices i made. Because It was still going to end up the same predetemined way .e.g mom dying sis either taken away or gets sick and becomes a GW and leaves and anders terrorism . I was so excited by DAO in the feeling it gave me. It had a new feel unlike the standardl dungune run games. But that feeling was sadly short lived.

IMHO the guys at bioware where on the threshhold of a new age in gamming. WIth new ideas i was so excited by DAO . But then you retreated back a decade at least to the days of old school of reused maps and complacency.cartoon like effects enemys getting frozen in the air. OH and if you havent seen this yet . when in lowtown and a fight starts where there are some stairs run up half way up and lock on a enamy thats down below with a rouge. its the most dumbest thing ever. you do that jump attack move thru the stairs and end back up on the stairs again

I feel the biggest mistake the guys of bioware made was selling out to dEAd . At the second of signing that deal they killed themself and were no longer the great BIOWARE, they were only a part of dEAd . And this game is solid proof to me of that fact. There is only one possible chance they have left to change my veiw. And that will Be with ME3 . But i shudder to think how they will destroy that game as they have with this one . And fear it will just leave me feeling the same way as this game did, very disapointed . If so it will be time to say goodbye forever to a once great ,respected and talented DEV. Yet another fatality from dEAd . the people at dEAd have no souls , they only have holes. And try and fill those holes with our money any way they can.

[Cataca]

For me, to break immersion i would have to have some in the first place. But after the incredibly silly sibling death-scene, and the (imho) atrocious voiceacting from fem-hawke/mother it never let me in.

And as soon as i noticed the teleporting ninja templars it went from "no immersion" to "downright comical". Teleporting in the first place is lore breaking, but templars doing it? Awesomeness.

[erynnar]

shantisands wrote...

The cinematics were definitely better. Some of the high rez textures were also. And a good portion of the lighting and character models. Qunari = great.

It wasn't all about criticism. My screenshots look lovely.

Definitely! I love some of the textures and  I really didn't see what was wrong with the graphics (except the repeated awfully done people furniture *cough* NPCs *cough, cough* standing around).  I do like the Qunari (save the repetittion there too).

[Monica83]

the texture are nice for the most... but the areas are too much large and too much empty... You can take a box and paint it of great wood texture.. but it will stay an empty box.... so nice texture but a huge lack of detail

[_Aine_]

Monica83 wrote...

the texture are nice for the most... but the areas are too much large and too much empty... You can take a box and paint it of great wood texture.. but it will stay an empty box.... so nice texture but a huge lack of detail

Yeah it was boxy. I think they wanted to give this expanse of a huge city feeling, but it was also supposed to be crowded, no, FULL and I think those people were removed because the size and emptiness were fairly evident.    So yes, I agree with that!  

DAO had a mod that added more stuff, more people, you know chickens, cows.... life-like things.  I wish we had that here.   Even out with the dalish, no birds, no deer.... ANY life form you encounter was almost because you had to talk to it or kill it.  No ambient critters.  So many spiders, not a single bunny in the woods?    

And those low poly elf models.... I actually want to know where to find that file if anyone knows where in the file structure that fellow can be found, pls let me know I have plans for him.    

Modifié par shantisands, 15 avril 2011 - 06:12 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

MOTpoetryION wrote...
They even destroyed parts of their own lore at times in regards to blood mages. It left me with the feeling that not only were people born with magic but now it seems that they are also born with the knowing of all the blood magic spells as well . And when backed into a corner could become a blood mage anytime they wanted or needed to. Without having to learn the spells So i guess they get sent to the towers only so they could learn the good spells of magic. huh? Do you see how the lore now is trash by the way things unfolded in this game?

The real issue there is that they seemed to confuse the differences between a blood mage and an abomination that had been established in DA:O.  Not all blood magic comes from dealing with a demon, and not all abominations come from blood mages.  In DA:O, for all he screws up, for all the wrong he does, for as weak-minded as Jowan comes across at times, there's never so much as a hint that he's been influenced by a demon or deals with demons.  In fact, he makes it quite clear that he knows quite a lot about demons and views them as highly dangerous. 


The scenes in DA2 were some mages become abominations when backed into corners make some sense, as the demon takes advantage and makes that on-the-spot deal, and seizes control. 

(And by the way, why no "terror demons"?)

The scenes where mages instantly turn to blood magic when cornered over and over... not so much sense.  It's something that needs to be learned, like any other magic.