208 réponses à ce sujet

[_Aine_]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The real issue there is that they seemed to confuse the differences between a blood mage and an abomination that had been established in DA:O.  Not all blood magic comes from dealing with a demon, and not all abominations come from blood mages.  In DA:O, for all he screws up, for all the wrong he does, for as weak-minded as Jowan comes across at times, there's never so much as a hint that he's been influenced by a demon or deals with demons.  In fact, he makes it quite clear that he knows quite a lot about demons and views them as highly dangerous. 

Good point.  There was a simplification of it in DA2 to be sure.  Poor Jowan.  I will respect him a bit more when I see him again, the poor bastard.   

Modifié par shantisands, 15 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[Wrathra]

Cataca wrote...

...And as soon as i noticed the teleporting ninja templars it went from "no immersion" to "downright comical". Teleporting in the first place is lore breaking, but templars doing it? Awesomeness.

The first quest I did with the  teleporting, ninja templars that I slaughtered, in the Chantry no less, just made me LOL.

The darkspawn spawn right on top of you and run around like they are wearing diapers full of turds.

The entire population of Kirkwall seems made up of ninja templars, bandits, slavers, fake guards, shades and abominations.

There are so many dragonlings and giant spiders it's a wonder that there is anything living in the Free Marches at all.

The reused environments were just awful.  During one quest, we were supposed to be in the sewer.   A companion made a reference to how people being led through said sewer kissed the ground through the muck, and we were in a cave. A brightly lit, clean cave.  With grass and bottomless pits.

I understand that there must be suspension of disbelief, for this is, after all, a fantasy world. But there should be some logic. There shouldn't be 53954093842 bandits roaming the streets, and they shouldn't teleport in out of  thin air without a really good explanation.  Mages should not be teleporting all around the battlefield, especially since according to DA's own lore this should not be possible.  If the ability to teleport IS discovered, because yes yes codex is rumor blah blah etc, I doubt that Jimbo the bandit mage has the ability and the first enchanter, or Hawke/Anders/Merrill does not. There shouldn't be so much carnivorous fauna in an area that it would wipe out a population.  These are mistakes amateur modders make, and I've played NWN mods that make more sense.

So, yeah, there was never immersion.


edit: punctuation fail

Modifié par Wrathra, 15 avril 2011 - 06:26 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Wrathra wrote...

The reused environments were just awful.  During one quest, we were supposed to be in the sewer.   A companion made a reference to how people being led through said sewer kissed the ground through the muck, and we were in a cave. A brightly lit, clean cave.  With grass and bottomless pits.

There's the mismatch of graphics with where you supposedly are...

Then there the fact that the same economy of resources could be achieved without the recycled dungeons, by combining two concepts: 

1)  Use "tiles" or "blocks" -- segments of tunnel, cave, building, etc, that can be combined in different ways, instead of the same map over and over again. 

2)  Varied textures/color pallets. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 15 avril 2011 - 06:38 .

[88mphSlayer]

this might sound totally insane in 2011 but i wish the guys who do the art design/graphics for Demon's Souls/Dark Souls would help Bioware on Dragon Age because DS just oozes atmosphere and their use of actual physics in an rpg would really be cool for the DA series, i guess i'm kind of bored of seeing npc's fly around like they're riding on a cloud of air and seeing armor clip through weapons when it should be banging against eachother as you walk, not to mention none of the enemies are all that scary looking and locations aren't mysterious either... both things DS oozes

i say insane because i think some japanese developers nailed dark fantasy better than classic westerners

[bEVEsthda]

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

[Raphael diSanto]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

The reused environments were just awful.  During one quest, we were supposed to be in the sewer.   A companion made a reference to how people being led through said sewer kissed the ground through the muck, and we were in a cave. A brightly lit, clean cave.  With grass and bottomless pits.

There's the mismatch of graphics with where you supposedly are...

Then there the fact that the same economy of resources could be achieved without the recycled dungeons, by combining two concepts: 

1)  Use "tiles" or "blocks" -- segments of tunnel, cave, building, etc, that can be combined in different ways, instead of the same map over and over again. 

2)  Varied textures/color pallets. 

Yes. Let's go back to Neverwinter Nights tiles.

I think I'm probably one of the few people who don't mind the recycled interiors. I run an online tabletop RPG game, and we pretty much use the same 3 apartment maps whenever we're in an apartment. The same 2 office maps whenever we're in an office. The same 2 warehouse maps for if I need a warehouse setting.

My players understand that these are different locations.

I was actually just thinking about this today (I'm on my 2nd playthrough). I was going through the cave system. Yes, the one and only one, and thinking about how pretty and richly detailed the graphics were. How there was a lot of individual touches. Ladders, vines, rocks, little bits and pieces that take time to sculpt, texture and place.

And I came to the conclusion that yes, I'd rather have cave interior's of DA2's quality than 3 or 4 lesser quality differing interiors.

That said, I didn't mind ME1's two recycled bases, either, so maybe I'm just easy to please, haha. That said, as someone who's worked as a game developer, I also have a more realistic view, I think, of what's actually acheivable within a certain timeframe, than some of the posters here, perhaps.

[Dragoonlordz]

Must be millions of miles of rivers of pure blood under Krikwall given how many ninjas I killed walking through it at night. I find it amusing that there's like 50-100ish NPCs in the whole of Kirkwall yet a million ninjas.

[Nozybidaj]

Raphael diSanto wrote...
I think I'm probably one of the few people who don't mind the recycled interiors. I run an online tabletop RPG game, and we pretty much use the same 3 apartment maps whenever we're in an apartment. The same 2 office maps whenever we're in an office. The same 2 warehouse maps for if I need a warehouse setting.

My players understand that these are different locations.

It's cool you run your own online table top game, but are you really comparing a mega-budget AAA game release and their reuse of tile sets to your off-the-cuff online TT setting?  Which from the sounds of it has more unique maps than DA2 did.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

The reused environments were just awful.  During one quest, we were supposed to be in the sewer.   A companion made a reference to how people being led through said sewer kissed the ground through the muck, and we were in a cave. A brightly lit, clean cave.  With grass and bottomless pits.

There's the mismatch of graphics with where you supposedly are...

Then there the fact that the same economy of resources could be achieved without the recycled dungeons, by combining two concepts: 

1)  Use "tiles" or "blocks" -- segments of tunnel, cave, building, etc, that can be combined in different ways, instead of the same map over and over again. 

2)  Varied textures/color pallets. 

Yes. Let's go back to Neverwinter Nights tiles.

I think I'm probably one of the few people who don't mind the recycled interiors. I run an online tabletop RPG game, and we pretty much use the same 3 apartment maps whenever we're in an apartment. The same 2 office maps whenever we're in an office. The same 2 warehouse maps for if I need a warehouse setting.

My players understand that these are different locations.

I was actually just thinking about this today (I'm on my 2nd playthrough). I was going through the cave system. Yes, the one and only one, and thinking about how pretty and richly detailed the graphics were. How there was a lot of individual touches. Ladders, vines, rocks, little bits and pieces that take time to sculpt, texture and place.

And I came to the conclusion that yes, I'd rather have cave interior's of DA2's quality than 3 or 4 lesser quality differing interiors.

That said, I didn't mind ME1's two recycled bases, either, so maybe I'm just easy to please, haha. That said, as someone who's worked as a game developer, I also have a more realistic view, I think, of what's actually acheivable within a certain timeframe, than some of the posters here, perhaps.

Depends on the size of the segment / tile, doesn't it? 

It would have to be better than getting the same map a few dozen times, entered from different directions and with different doors that magically can't be opened. 

[Sabriana]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

Please tell me you are joking. You are kidding, right? I mean, this makes no sense. Why on earth should my PC, the one I create and form 'surprise' me? I want her to say what *I* think she should say. I got repeatedly yanked out of the game on purpose?

I mean, she sure did shock me, and not in a good way. I did more and better face-palms than Jean-Luc Picard ever could muster.

And they did that on purpose? I thought it was a mishap that the paraphrases so poorly reflected the true line of conversation.

Oh dear....

[Dragoonlordz]

Sabriana wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

Please tell me you are joking. You are kidding, right? I mean, this makes no sense. Why on earth should my PC, the one I create and form 'surprise' me? I want her to say what *I* think she should say. I got repeatedly yanked out of the game on purpose?

I mean, she sure did shock me, and not in a good way. I did more and better face-palms than Jean-Luc Picard ever could muster.

And they did that on purpose? I thought it was a mishap that the paraphrases so poorly reflected the true line of conversation.

Oh dear....

No it's completley true, I saw it too.



2:30-3:40 (more specifically 2:45-2:55 + 3:35-3:40 if want the exact timing).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 09:07 .

[bEVEsthda]

Sabriana wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

Please tell me you are joking. You are kidding, right? I mean, this makes no sense. Why on earth should my PC, the one I create and form 'surprise' me? I want her to say what *I* think she should say. I got repeatedly yanked out of the game on purpose?

I mean, she sure did shock me, and not in a good way. I did more and better face-palms than Jean-Luc Picard ever could muster.

And they did that on purpose? I thought it was a mishap that the paraphrases so poorly reflected the true line of conversation.

Oh dear....

No, I'm not joking.


That segment starts at around 2:25, and the comment comes after 2:51

[Curlain]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

Please tell me you are joking. You are kidding, right? I mean, this makes no sense. Why on earth should my PC, the one I create and form 'surprise' me? I want her to say what *I* think she should say. I got repeatedly yanked out of the game on purpose?

I mean, she sure did shock me, and not in a good way. I did more and better face-palms than Jean-Luc Picard ever could muster.

And they did that on purpose? I thought it was a mishap that the paraphrases so poorly reflected the true line of conversation.

Oh dear....

No it's completley true, I saw it too.



2:30-3:00 (more specifically 2:45-2:55 if want the exact timng).

Well that's just kinda depressing 

[Sabriana]

Oh bleh! How awful.

Thanks for the answers and the link, guys

I agree, it *is* depressing.

[DKJaigen]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Oh look this thread again...

If you have nothing to add then keep going, go troll another thread one that doesn't offend you.

This thread adds nothing.

[bEVEsthda]

Another weird thing is that in these interviews all they talk about is the graphics and combat.
Excuse me, I don't play games for either graphics or combat, and I absolutely don't play RPG games for these things.
Ray goes on about how they have not forgotten the PC players (graphics), and I just want to scream:
- B b bbbut you dithched all gameplay!?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...
I think I'm probably one of the few people who don't mind the recycled interiors. I run an online tabletop RPG game, and we pretty much use the same 3 apartment maps whenever we're in an apartment. The same 2 office maps whenever we're in an office. The same 2 warehouse maps for if I need a warehouse setting.

My players understand that these are different locations.

It's cool you run your own online table top game, but are you really comparing a mega-budget AAA game release and their reuse of tile sets to your off-the-cuff online TT setting?  Which from the sounds of it has more unique maps than DA2 did.

I'm sure he doesn't charge $60 to play this game either.

Being a mage in this game is a big immersion killer. Nothing like making me care less about the plight of mages while playing a mage that gets special treatment simply because I'm the protagonist. Yes, they could have taken the class away completely but it would have been easier not to stage the game in a city where mages are oppressed.

Another thing that killed immersion is the fact that most of the population of the city share from a collective IQ pool. In other words, if I added up the IQ of everyone in Kirkwall I may get a somewhat reasonable human being. Nothing is more frustrating than being surrounded by companions that couldn't tie their own shoe without the hero there to help them. This made the game painful to play for me because I wanted to tear my hair out everytime someone betrayed me when I was clearly helping them or when a Templar would blatantly ignore my magery.

It got more and more ridiculous as it went on it's a wonder why I should be compelled to aid anyone seeing as they'd betray me several quests later. By the third act the only thing keeping me in Kirkwall was the developers because god knows if the game gave you choice I'd be on an Orlesian beach sipping mojitos while I watch Varric glisten in the noon sun.

[Dragoonlordz]

DKJaigen wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Oh look this thread again...

If you have nothing to add then keep going, go troll another thread one that doesn't offend you.

This thread adds nothing.

Then why post in it.

[erynnar]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

Please tell me you are joking. You are kidding, right? I mean, this makes no sense. Why on earth should my PC, the one I create and form 'surprise' me? I want her to say what *I* think she should say. I got repeatedly yanked out of the game on purpose?

I mean, she sure did shock me, and not in a good way. I did more and better face-palms than Jean-Luc Picard ever could muster.

And they did that on purpose? I thought it was a mishap that the paraphrases so poorly reflected the true line of conversation.

Oh dear....

No, I'm not joking.


That segment starts at around 2:25, and the comment comes after 2:51

I am erm...yeah...

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Yes, I have seen that interview before. It was linked on the forums in another thread and some people brought up the issue of whether or not he knew what a roleplaying game truely was if the player was to be suprised. What role are you playing then? It's like giving an actor a suprise script page every now and then and just telling them to "wing it" on opening night. They need a new acronym, perhaps CRWG? Computer Role Witnessing Game?

[Dragoonlordz]

When people say things like...

Don’t panic! It’s still an RPG. The core elements are still there, but the overall look has just been changed. They want people who are good at shooters be able to pick up Dragon Age 2. They have tried their best to make a game that everyone can enjoy. Just because you don’t get the RPG vibe in the first 10 minutes of play doesn’t mean that it won’t show up later in the game, and just because you think RPG’s are for dorks and nerds, you shouldn’t ignore this game. Dragon Age 2 wants to bring the hardcore console shooter fans and the PC RPG nuts all together in one happy place. They want it to feel like an action game with good responses to what you’re doing as a player. You push a button, and something awesome happens.

It doesn't boost confidence.

Funny enough I know a lot of console and PC FPS players and they still won't touch DA with 10ft long barge pole, for simple reason they like guns not swords and spells, has nothing to do with fact it's an RPG. They were/are willing to give ME a try because it's a shooter which is what they like. Now I don't know if that isn't the case with everyone else here but all the FPS players I know who previously didn't touch DAO still won't touch DA2 because of fact it's not a shooter.



If others too have same thing with their friends then I guess he failed in his grand plans. Tbh after deducting what possibly is initial sales from follow up success of DAO, I wonder it in fact DA2 on it's own merits would have/if hasn't succeded in boosting the fanbase to those who Laidlaw targetted in his plans. It has nothing to do with how quickly your character responds or how awesome button pushing is, it's just not the kind of game they want, they like shooters not sword and spells fantasies.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 10:28 .

[ShadowWeezle]

I have to agree with Boiny.....seriously....all I can say when I play this game is what the freakin hell....lol. but its not just Bio Ware...all game companies are getting lazy....and more lazy. they cut all kinds of corners, rush the game on the shelf....they are forgetting that we are there money....if gamers stop buying there product because it blows....they wont have anymore money to make more crappy games...now the story was good and the acting was good....but so what? If I am playing something stupid like a hack and slash...immersion doesnt matter...but when you play an epic story you need immersion or its just another hack and slash. Call Of Duty:Modern warfare 2 had more immersion....when ghost got betrayed and was shot infront of you....TEARS!

[ShadowWeezle]

I just watched the interview......has this guy even played a video game before? He doesn't seem to know what gamers want.

[bEVEsthda]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

When people say things like...

Don’t panic! It’s still an RPG. The core elements are still there, but the overall look has just been changed. They want people who are good at shooters be able to pick up Dragon Age 2. They have tried their best to make a game that everyone can enjoy. Just because you don’t get the RPG vibe in the first 10 minutes of play doesn’t mean that it won’t show up later in the game, and just because you think RPG’s are for dorks and nerds, you shouldn’t ignore this game. Dragon Age 2 wants to bring the hardcore console shooter fans and the PC RPG nuts all together in one happy place. They want it to feel like an action game with good responses to what you’re doing as a player. You push a button, and something awesome happens.

It doesn't boost confidence.

Funny enough I know a lot of console and PC FPS players and they still won't touch DA with 10ft long barge pole, for simple reason they like guns not swords and spells, has nothing to do with fact it's an RPG. They were/are willing to give ME a try because it's a shooter which is what they like. Now I don't know if that isn't the case with everyone else here but all the FPS players I know who previously didn't touch DAO still won't touch DA2 because of fact it's not a shooter.



If others too have same thing with their friends then I guess he failed in his grand plans. Tbh after deducting what possibly is initial sales from follow up success of DAO, I wonder it in fact DA2 on it's own merits would have/if hasn't succeded in boosting the fanbase to those who Laidlaw targetted in his plans. It has nothing to do with how quickly your character responds or how awesome button pushing is, it's just not the kind of game they want, they like shooters not sword and spells fantasies.

But surely we will get guns then?  I mean, DA2 introduced black powder, didn't it. And they keep going on about how the DA world is going to change. Seems reasonable to assume that it's not just the circle vs mage war. Maybe even magic will be exterminated, so we only have guns?
...And blades on chains, of course, god of war style. ...And horned heads spinning like propellers, qunari ramming into adversaries, body parts exploding. And I bet the guns will be automatic, black powder muzzleloaders. Just consider Varric's crossbow. ...And I bet we'll have flamethrowers as well...

[Melca36]

shantisands wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

the texture are nice for the most... but the areas are too much large and too much empty... You can take a box and paint it of great wood texture.. but it will stay an empty box.... so nice texture but a huge lack of detail

Yeah it was boxy. I think they wanted to give this expanse of a huge city feeling, but it was also supposed to be crowded, no, FULL and I think those people were removed because the size and emptiness were fairly evident.    So yes, I agree with that!  

DAO had a mod that added more stuff, more people, you know chickens, cows.... life-like things.  I wish we had that here.   Even out with the dalish, no birds, no deer.... ANY life form you encounter was almost because you had to talk to it or kill it.  No ambient critters.  So many spiders, not a single bunny in the woods?    

And those low poly elf models.... I actually want to know where to find that file if anyone knows where in the file structure that fellow can be found, pls let me know I have plans for him.    

I agree. At least in Origins, the areas were ALIVE. There was the occasion critter in the Wilds. You heard things.

The wounded coast should be called The Dead Coast.