208 réponses à ce sujet

[GMulryan]

I was more insulted at each turn, icons for trash, big history and codex for ...........elfroot complete with a jingle and exp for finding it when the crap was all over  Ferelden, anime type fighting moves for a 2 handed warrior, I have not bothered to try any other class, hell I have not even finished the game with said warrior or will I bother to try another class. Kite the boss fights..........." there's another wave", "there are reinforcements".........in a cave no less. I guess there are many whom have far greater imaginations than I possess, I just could not imagine the game as good or worth the time to finish.

[Vicious]

Bioware did not even attempt to justify the game's ridiculousness.

raining men indeed.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sabriana wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I saw an interview just a short while ago, where Ray explained that one of the reasons for the dialogue wheel was to give the player a "surprise" answer. Now, am I totally mad or have the founders of Bioware completely lost what a RPG is about?

Please tell me you are joking. You are kidding, right? I mean, this makes no sense. Why on earth should my PC, the one I create and form 'surprise' me? I want her to say what *I* think she should say. I got repeatedly yanked out of the game on purpose?

I mean, she sure did shock me, and not in a good way. I did more and better face-palms than Jean-Luc Picard ever could muster.

And they did that on purpose? I thought it was a mishap that the paraphrases so poorly reflected the true line of conversation.

Oh dear....

I keep saying... DA2 wasn't built as an RPG, it was built as an interactive movie with a predetermined ending.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

When people say things like...

Don’t panic! It’s still an RPG. The core elements are still there, but the overall look has just been changed. They want people who are good at shooters be able to pick up Dragon Age 2. They have tried their best to make a game that everyone can enjoy. Just because you don’t get the RPG vibe in the first 10 minutes of play doesn’t mean that it won’t show up later in the game, and just because you think RPG’s are for dorks and nerds, you shouldn’t ignore this game. Dragon Age 2 wants to bring the hardcore console shooter fans and the PC RPG nuts all together in one happy place. They want it to feel like an action game with good responses to what you’re doing as a player. You push a button, and something awesome happens.

It doesn't boost confidence.

Funny enough I know a lot of console and PC FPS players and they still won't touch DA with 10ft long barge pole, for simple reason they like guns not swords and spells, has nothing to do with fact it's an RPG. They were/are willing to give ME a try because it's a shooter which is what they like. Now I don't know if that isn't the case with everyone else here but all the FPS players I know who previously didn't touch DAO still won't touch DA2 because of fact it's not a shooter.



If others too have same thing with their friends then I guess he failed in his grand plans. Tbh after deducting what possibly is initial sales from follow up success of DAO, I wonder it in fact DA2 on it's own merits would have/if hasn't succeded in boosting the fanbase to those who Laidlaw targetted in his plans. It has nothing to do with how quickly your character responds or how awesome button pushing is, it's just not the kind of game they want, they like shooters not sword and spells fantasies.

As I've said elsewhere, you can't make a game that's everything to everyone, you just end up making a game that's nothing to anyone.

[Dragoonlordz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
As I've said elsewhere, you can't make a game that's everything to everyone, you just end up making a game that's nothing to anyone.

There was a recent game that suffers the same fate as DA2.

Nier...

In Japan, Nier Gestalt sold 12,783 copies in Japan the week of its release. Nier Replicant sold more, with 121,247 copies in Japan by the end of May 2010.

Nier received mixed reviews.

Kevin VanOrd of GameSpot gave Nier a 5 out of 10 for both platforms, stating, "This dreary action role-playing game has its worthwhile moments, but they're separated by countless hours of fetch-quest tedium." VanOrd went on to say that the final few hours of Nier were "compelling" but that the majority of Nier is "boring". He concluded that "Unfortunately, great music and a couple of entertaining hours aren't reason enough to slog through this leaden dirge. You get the impression that 10 hours of promising content was mercilessly stretched into a 30-hour marathon of fetch quests and squandered potential."

IGN gave Nier a 7.3/10, saying that it was "...a game with split-personality disorder, aiming to please everyone with elements drawn from a raft of sources, but in the process it never excels in any one area."

Steven Hopper of GameZone gave the game a 6/10. His final verdict was "Nier is a missed opportunity. There are moments when the storytelling shines, but those are few and far between in a pretty drab quest-laden game with boring missions and fetch quests."

When reading the reviews on Nier I couldn't help but think, wait is this Nier or DA2...

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 11:27 .

[DJBare]

They were aiming for the CoD crowd, immersive did not come into the equation, this is a combat game with elements of RPG.

[Tirigon]

DJBare wrote...

They were aiming for the CoD crowd, immersive did not come into the equation, this is a combat game with elements of RPG.

The big problem is that you won´t convince any CoD fans with such a horrible combat as DA2 has. You can say about CoD what you want - but it is a very accurate simulation of combat. That´s what the fans want. DA2 is the opposite.

[Dragoonlordz]

I do find it kind of ironic that to boost sales they are now appealing more to the shooter crowd by bundling ME2 with DA2.

However as someone who since had sold his copy of ME2 after buying it when first came out, I am happy that they did this because I got to play it again, though refuse to buy it again until they release ME1 on PS3. As although I still own ME1 on 360 and ME2 now on PC my ME collection (trilogy which means 3 not 2.1 and the 0.1 being comic in ME2 for PS3), I wish to have my DA and ME collections both on PS3. Now if they don't release ME1 on PS3 so be it but I'm not interested in buying ME2 on it until they do no matter how many free PC copies they give me.

It's a shame because I REALLY do want to buy ME2 again the PS3 version but everytime I look it up price wise and tempted it always comes down to fact ME is a trilogy.. If I buy it I will not have a trilogy on the system I chose to buy the series on. In the end always puts me off buying every single time.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 11:57 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Roxlimn wrote...

Boiny Bunny:

By last count, I had like maybe 4 to 6 major encounters you can choose to end peacefully depending on how you choose. In fact, you can even choose not to end the second Act with combat.  In fact, there's so many combats you can avoid in the game that I accidentally avoid combats I regret avoiding.  I've had to reload a few times just to get combats I didn't know I could get.

No, what you actually mean is, you can avoid a final fight with a boss, but not the 12 fights before it.  In every single quest in the game that I can think of (including the end of Act 2) you still have to go through a series of battles to get to the final battle which you can then (maybe) avoid with either the right character or the right dialogue.

Also, you've missed my point entirely.  The point is, combat is so prevailant that they have shoehorned it into quests which rightfully should have no combat.  Examples include The Long Road (Aveline's act 2 companion quest) and Gamlen's Greatest Treasure (Act 3).  There is virtually no quest in this entire game that does not involve combat (bar the fetch-deliver quests - which are even worse).

Roxlimn wrote...

There are two major game mechanics in DA2: combat and interactive fiction.  That's it.  There's the doll game and the statistics game that feed into the combat game, but those are minor.

The last time Bioware tried to inject a minigame into one of their products, we got planet scanning.  Do you really want more planet scanning in DA2?  Is that what DA2 needs to make it into a truly great game?

I have no idea what the point of that was.  I don't care for Bioware minigames at all - they have never added anything to one of their games as far as I'm concerned, and I'm glad DA2 has none.  That has little to nothing to do with immersion.

[Boiny Bunny]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do find it kind of ironic that to boost sales they are now appealing more to the shooter crowd by bundling ME2 with DA2.

However as someone who since had sold his copy of ME2 after buying it when first came out, I am happy that they did this because I got to play it again, though refuse to buy it again until they release ME1 on PS3. As although I still own ME1 on 360 and ME2 now on PC my ME collection (trilogy which means 3 not 2.1 and the 0.1 being comic in ME2 for PS3), I wish to have my DA and ME collections both on PS3. Now if they don't release ME1 on PS3 so be it but I'm not interested in buying ME2 on it until they do no matter how many free PC copies they give me.

It's a shame because I REALLY do want to buy ME2 again the PS3 version but everytime I look it up price wise and tempted it always comes down to fact ME is a trilogy.. If I buy it I will not have a trilogy on the system I chose to buy the series on. In the end always puts me off buying every single time.

Hate to say this, but I think you're out of luck.  Because Microsoft published Mass Effect 1, in all likeliness, it will never ever be released on the PS3 - unless Microsoft has a moment of temporary insanity (through the entire organisation) and decide to give the PS3 the game. 

I'd recommend playing the ME trilogy on the PC if your PC is able to handle them - much better expierience IMO.

[88mphSlayer]

Tirigon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

They were aiming for the CoD crowd, immersive did not come into the equation, this is a combat game with elements of RPG.

The big problem is that you won´t convince any CoD fans with such a horrible combat as DA2 has. You can say about CoD what you want - but it is a very accurate simulation of combat. That´s what the fans want. DA2 is the opposite.

fps fans are sticklers for level design and graphics anyways, they'd never tolerate copy/paste rooms like rpg fans do

[Dragoonlordz]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do find it kind of ironic that to boost sales they are now appealing more to the shooter crowd by bundling ME2 with DA2.

However as someone who since had sold his copy of ME2 after buying it when first came out, I am happy that they did this because I got to play it again, though refuse to buy it again until they release ME1 on PS3. As although I still own ME1 on 360 and ME2 now on PC my ME collection (trilogy which means 3 not 2.1 and the 0.1 being comic in ME2 for PS3), I wish to have my DA and ME collections both on PS3. Now if they don't release ME1 on PS3 so be it but I'm not interested in buying ME2 on it until they do no matter how many free PC copies they give me.

It's a shame because I REALLY do want to buy ME2 again the PS3 version but everytime I look it up price wise and tempted it always comes down to fact ME is a trilogy.. If I buy it I will not have a trilogy on the system I chose to buy the series on. In the end always puts me off buying every single time.

Hate to say this, but I think you're out of luck.  Because Microsoft published Mass Effect 1, in all likeliness, it will never ever be released on the PS3 - unless Microsoft has a moment of temporary insanity (through the entire organisation) and decide to give the PS3 the game. 

I'd recommend playing the ME trilogy on the PC if your PC is able to handle them - much better expierience IMO.

I think you may be right but that doesn't change the fact I kinda am disgusted that it's a trilogy and the system which I choose to have the collection on get 2/3 titles. Still I realise it's a pipe dream but if the M$ contract had a time limit like a lot do then maybe in 25 years I'll be able to pick up a copy on PS3.  

The only alternative is if I get all copies paid by others (got ME1 on 360 since friend bought me it and got ME2 for free on PC due to DA2:Jutsu Chronicles), that way the moral issue doesn't also become financial. Though I still won't buy it myself unless ME1 does cross over, at least in the meantime I can play them on another system for free. But all 3 must be the same system if I'm going to pay myself and the system of choice for me is PS3.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 avril 2011 - 01:21 .

[Roxlimn]

Boiny Bunny:

No, what you actually mean is, you can avoid a final fight with a boss, but not the 12 fights before it. In every single quest in the game that I can think of (including the end of Act 2) you still have to go through a series of battles to get to the final battle which you can then (maybe) avoid with either the right character or the right dialogue.

Also, you've missed my point entirely. The point is, combat is so prevailant that they have shoehorned it into quests which rightfully should have no combat. Examples include The Long Road (Aveline's act 2 companion quest) and Gamlen's Greatest Treasure (Act 3). There is virtually no quest in this entire game that does not involve combat (bar the fetch-deliver quests - which are even worse).

There are no quests in the game that don't involve combat, except the quests which are worse than the ones that do? Maybe you need to phrase that a little better because it doesn't seem to support your viewpoint.

Most of the quest lines in the game involve battle, yes. It's a combat game. What were you expecting? That said, you are overstating the fact. There are quests that don't involve combat. They're just not well-fleshed and they are not the main draw. If you want a mostly text-based adventure, I highly recommend Japanese Dating Sims.

And no, I don't want DA to turn into a Japanese Dating Sim. There are enough of those out there.

I have no idea what the point of that was. I don't care for Bioware minigames at all - they have never added anything to one of their games as far as I'm concerned, and I'm glad DA2 has none. That has little to nothing to do with immersion.

You said there's no game in the game other than combat. Well, there are a few more, but frankly, I don't want Bioware to put planet scanning in DA2 just to have an alternative game mechanic to flesh out a quest line. Really, I don't.

[Roxlimn]

88mphSlayer wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

They were aiming for the CoD crowd, immersive did not come into the equation, this is a combat game with elements of RPG.

The big problem is that you won´t convince any CoD fans with such a horrible combat as DA2 has. You can say about CoD what you want - but it is a very accurate simulation of combat. That´s what the fans want. DA2 is the opposite.

fps fans are sticklers for level design and graphics anyways, they'd never tolerate copy/paste rooms like rpg fans do

CoD and Crysis 2 say no.  There's a reason they call these things "corridor shooters," and it's because the level design is primarily one long corridor filled with baddies and cover locations.

[88mphSlayer]

Roxlimn wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

They were aiming for the CoD crowd, immersive did not come into the equation, this is a combat game with elements of RPG.

The big problem is that you won´t convince any CoD fans with such a horrible combat as DA2 has. You can say about CoD what you want - but it is a very accurate simulation of combat. That´s what the fans want. DA2 is the opposite.

fps fans are sticklers for level design and graphics anyways, they'd never tolerate copy/paste rooms like rpg fans do

CoD and Crysis 2 say no.  There's a reason they call these things "corridor shooters," and it's because the level design is primarily one long corridor filled with baddies and cover locations.

corridor yes, copy/paste no

Halo ODST and Halo:CE anybody? people complained to high heaven about retreading old areas or repeating rooms... those two were actually my favorite of the franchise but people will complain anyways

[Roxlimn]

88mphSlayer:

FPS fans play the same maps over and over and over again in multiplayer matches. The same maps are literally reused for matches hundreds of times.

[snackrat]

I find it interesting everyone seems to think dragons are extinct. I seem to get attacked by them every freakin' fifteen minutes.

[man giraffe dog2]

Karsciyin wrote...

I find it interesting everyone seems to think dragons are extinct. I seem to get attacked by them every freakin' fifteen minutes.

Well to be fair the places you DO get attacked by dragons (Bone Pit, Sundermont, etc) are pretty out of the way (in the Bone Pit they were in a deep underground cavern that was sealed off).

[Boiny Bunny]

Roxlimn wrote...

Boiny Bunny:

No, what you actually mean is, you can avoid a final fight with a boss, but not the 12 fights before it. In every single quest in the game that I can think of (including the end of Act 2) you still have to go through a series of battles to get to the final battle which you can then (maybe) avoid with either the right character or the right dialogue.

Also, you've missed my point entirely. The point is, combat is so prevailant that they have shoehorned it into quests which rightfully should have no combat. Examples include The Long Road (Aveline's act 2 companion quest) and Gamlen's Greatest Treasure (Act 3). There is virtually no quest in this entire game that does not involve combat (bar the fetch-deliver quests - which are even worse).

There are no quests in the game that don't involve combat, except the quests which are worse than the ones that do? Maybe you need to phrase that a little better because it doesn't seem to support your viewpoint.

Most of the quest lines in the game involve battle, yes. It's a combat game. What were you expecting? That said, you are overstating the fact. There are quests that don't involve combat. They're just not well-fleshed and they are not the main draw. If you want a mostly text-based adventure, I highly recommend Japanese Dating Sims.

And no, I don't want DA to turn into a Japanese Dating Sim. There are enough of those out there.

Yes perhaps I should rephrase that.  The 'fetch' quests in the game, are in my eyes not even quests.  They make no logical sense, add very little to the game, and break immersion further simply by existing.  "Hey look a moudly cup I found in a dungeon in Sundermount!  Obviously this must belong to that fleabag guy in Darktown!  I'll just go there and give it to him!"

Every real quest in the game involves masses of combat.  That is a problem.  It may even be THE problem.

And you've noted that Dragon Age 2 is a combat game.  Yes, it is.  Exactly.  I've been waiting for somebody to acknowledge this.  Dragon Age 2 is not an RPG.  It is a combat game.  As such, every quest in the game has masses of combat everywhere, even when it makes no logical storyline sense to have combat.  Your choices and 'roleplaying' elements are stripped from the game to the point of making almost every decision on your journey utterly pointless.

Origins, and virtually every other Bioware game ever made, involve plenty of quests that involve no combat.  Because the focus of the game is not on combat.  It is on roleplaying, and being immersed in the world.  When the situation you get into requires combat, combat happens - but it isn't the entire focus of the game.

It's a fundamental viewpoint shift between the games.  Dragon Age 2 is a series of poorly constructed plot excuses to get you into as many battles as possible, even when it makes no logical sense to have the battles.  Dragon Age Origins is a role playing game.  There is plenty of combat, and plenty of non combat.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with Japanese Dating Sims - which is fine - but again, it seems like you've brought up something that has nothing to do with this discussion.  I'm not interested in text based games.  I'm interested in games with good plots, that are immersive.  Part of being immersive, is of course having combat - where it makes sense to have combat.

I have no idea what the point of that was. I don't care for Bioware minigames at all - they have never added anything to one of their games as far as I'm concerned, and I'm glad DA2 has none. That has little to nothing to do with immersion.

You said there's no game in the game other than combat. Well, there are a few more, but frankly, I don't want Bioware to put planet scanning in DA2 just to have an alternative game mechanic to flesh out a quest line. Really, I don't.

I said there's no quest in the game that doesn't involve combat - not 'no game'.  I have no interest in minigames.  I have an interest in quests that involve lots of talking with characters and having you use your brain.

Seeing as you seem to be unsure as to what exactly I am talking about, when I say a quest that involves no combat, let me give you a fine example from a prior Bioware game, KOTOR:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66Y6oO1U-aw

This is an exceptional quest that involves no combat, takes the player around 20 minutes to complete, and engages mentally.

I would like to see more quests of this style - where appropriate. 

I'd take 25 minutes of that over 25 minutes of yet another copy-pasted dungeon with 5 fights of the same enemies then no plot resolution except some girl giving you 1 sovereign then running off, anyday.

[88mphSlayer]

Roxlimn wrote...

88mphSlayer:

FPS fans play the same maps over and over and over again in multiplayer matches. The same maps are literally reused for matches hundreds of times.

yes but those maps are not corridors they've got tons of alternate routes and take more than a few matches to learn all the secrets, even then everytime you play players will use the maps differently

when you stick an fps player in single player they expect to be spoon fed variety in everything

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 16 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[mancadu]

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." (Tom Clancy)

DA2 doesn't make sense in a lot of places, even within the lore it establishes. Hence the shallow immersion.

[neppakyo]

88mphSlayer wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

88mphSlayer:

FPS fans play the same maps over and over and over again in multiplayer matches. The same maps are literally reused for matches hundreds of times.

yes but those maps are not corridors they've got tons of alternate routes and take more than a few matches to learn all the secrets, even then everytime you play players will use the maps differently

when you stick an fps player in single player they expect to be spoon fed variety in everything

not to mention most FPS multiplayer maps are huge, and feel bigger than kirkwall. Plus some kid always head shots you on your way to your favorite sniping spot! *shakes fist*

Modifié par neppakyo, 16 avril 2011 - 05:48 .

[Cataca]

Roxlimn wrote...
You said there's no game in the game other than combat. Well, there are a few more, but frankly, I don't want Bioware to put planet scanning in DA2 just to have an alternative game mechanic to flesh out a quest line. Really, I don't.

I dont hope you will actually ever get the point, but heaving "other things to do" is a none issue, noone ever complained about that. It was about how you could only solve things through violence, or not fighting. As i said allready, previous and current installments of RPG's have a multitude of solutions to a quest, DA2 does not. And some people would like to play a character that is not a soziopathic killdozer. Some finesse here would have been nice.

[Roxlimn]

neppakyo:

Don't know about feel. I've played a lot of maps in my time and very few of them are as big as Kirkwall because you don't want players getting spaced too far apart (I've designed some MP maps myself). If it takes an FPS more than a minute to sprint headlong from one part of the map to the nearest opposite border, it's too big.

Size in game design is actually something most gamers do not understand very well, even when they flatter themselves into thinking that they do. You do NOT want a largely featureless Kirkwall where you spend 15 minutes to get from any place of interest to any other place of interest, just because it's that big.

[Roxlimn]

Cataca wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...
You said there's no game in the game other than combat. Well, there are a few more, but frankly, I don't want Bioware to put planet scanning in DA2 just to have an alternative game mechanic to flesh out a quest line. Really, I don't.

I dont hope you will actually ever get the point, but heaving "other things to do" is a none issue, noone ever complained about that. It was about how you could only solve things through violence, or not fighting. As i said allready, previous and current installments of RPG's have a multitude of solutions to a quest, DA2 does not. And some people would like to play a character that is not a soziopathic killdozer. Some finesse here would have been nice.

Name a specific instance of a specific quest in a specific RPG that required neither a game (of whatever kind), narrative, nor combat to resolve a Questline.