157 réponses à ce sujet

[008Zulu]

The BS Police wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

I don't think Shep is either Alliance or Cerberus anymore (Alliance declared him dead, dead men can't server and Shep quit Cerberus). More of an independent contractor now.

Just because you were declared dead does not mean you are relieved of duty when they find out you are alive two years later.

In what armed forces do they continue to expect to serve when you have been killed? Do they sit your corpse up in the latrine and tell it to clean the toilets with a toothbrush because it missed revelry?

If your K.I.A, then they cut you off pretty quickly. If they find out your still alive, they would probably try to get you to re-enlist.

Oh yeah, good luck to the Alliance trying to seize the Normandy. EDI might take exception to being dismantled and studied. Considering she has some of the most powerful armaments in galaxy and reaction times much faster than organics, you don't want her getting upset.

[MajorStranger]

The Normandy SR2 is a freelance ship, It belong to Shepard, the same way Saren "owned" Sovereign. Joker and every shipmates are under Shepard's command only, he's a Spectre and doesn't have to answer to anyone.

[Temaperacl]

008Zulu wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

I don't think Shep is either Alliance or Cerberus anymore (Alliance declared him dead, dead men can't server and Shep quit Cerberus). More of an independent contractor now.

Just because you were declared dead does not mean you are relieved of duty when they find out you are alive two years later.

In what armed forces do they continue to expect to serve when you have been killed? Do they sit your corpse up in the latrine and tell it to clean the toilets with a toothbrush because it missed revelry?

If your K.I.A, then they cut you off pretty quickly. If they find out your still alive, they would probably try to get you to re-enlist.

No, they would just reclassify you. If you are alive, you were not killed and therefore the KIA classification was incorrect. I highly doubt the Alliance has specific policies for corpses coming back to life and so they would apply the most sensible equivalent - that you were misclassified.

[lovgreno]

MajorStranger wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is a freelance ship, It belong to Shepard, the same way Saren "owned" Sovereign. Joker and every shipmates are under Shepard's command only, he's a Spectre and doesn't have to answer to anyone.

Yep. Being a spectre sure have many perks.

[DarthSliver]

Well hopefully I wont be disappointed with Arrival like some of you when i am finally able to play it. But maybe in June at E3 when they give us a preview of ME3(because you know they will, why wouldnt they) some of your questions will be answered.

But as to topic a bit more, I am sure our Normandy wont be as Luxurious as it was.

[bambooxfox]

DarthSliver wrote...

But as to topic a bit more, I am sure our Normandy wont be as Luxurious as it was.

I just imagined Joker shuffling back onto the Normandy and finding out the Alliance removed his leather seats.

But yes, if my vanguard Shep leaves the trial to find out they've tampered with EDI in any way, faces will be rearranged. The Commander has no tolerance for people messing with her friends.

[GuardianAngel470]

Saphra Deden wrote...

How do you plan to spend your time in prison, GuardianAngel470? You and the crew can all hang out on the yard.

Prison? If I had my way they'd never get me anywhere near a prison. What are they going to do, invade Geth Space to get me? Storm Omega?

However, I won't get my way. That doesn't prevent me from avenging any harm done to my crew and lets be honest, they aren't going to arrest me post-reaper invasion over a few dozen killed Alliance officers after I save everyone.

It will just be one more fact rewritten by the victors.

If asked to come quietly and relinquish my weapons, this is what I'll say: "I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?"

[didymos1120]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

If asked to come quietly and relinquish my weapons, this is what I'll say: "I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?"

Well, actually, you'll say one of a few things the writers have decided to allow you to say. Assuming they even have "post-Reaper" Shep content at all, which isn't all that likely.  And that's assuming you get to act out your little "take vengeance upon the Alliance for messin' with my EDI" fantasy: also rather unlikely.

Modifié par didymos1120, 17 avril 2011 - 07:54 .

[GuardianAngel470]

didymos1120 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

If asked to come quietly and relinquish my weapons, this is what I'll say: "I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?"

Well, actually, you'll say one of a few things the writers have decided to allow you to say. Assuming they even have "post-Reaper" Shep content at all, which isn't all that likely.  And that's assuming you get to act out your little "take vengeance upon the Alliance for messin' with my EDI" fantasy: also rather unlikely.

Notice I never said "my Shepard". These are things I would do in the situation and I have already acknowledged that Bioware won't let me do exactly what I want.

But if this were STALKER, all bets would be off. Sweet, sweet vengeance would be mine if it were.

[JedTed]

Considering that the entire Normandy crew(minus Dr. Chakwas) can be dead then i assume they'd just be replaced Alliance crewmen. If you saved them however then i assume they'll swear their loyalty to Shepard. I think it's pretty much a given that Joker and Dr. Chakwas will be on board and i doubt they'd just wipe EDI's AI core after all the good she's done(plus i think Joker would be heartbroken if anything happened to EDI).

[SalsaDMA]

didymos1120 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

If asked to come quietly and relinquish my weapons, this is what I'll say: "I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?"

Well, actually, you'll say one of a few things the writers have decided to allow you to say. Assuming they even have "post-Reaper" Shep content at all, which isn't all that likely.  And that's assuming you get to act out your little "take vengeance upon the Alliance for messin' with my EDI" fantasy: also rather unlikely.

And this is an issue in a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

When the choices you are allowed to take are so far off the rockers compared to the role your character has, then you have an issue with the believability and immersino of the whole setting.

If I wanted to watch an animated movie where I didn't get a choice at all, I'd go to the cinema. Throughout ME1 and ME2 Shepard have been built up into multiple ways of behaviour and with several possible personaes possible. Quite a few of those personaes would tell the Alliance to shove off with their hoaxed wannabe trial while he was busy prepping and saving the galaxy from an invading army of giant AI's.

[Madman123456]

In several Law systems, someone in custody and awaiting trial can chose who will be responsible for his material wealth. In some systems, the Government of the Victim party has the right to trial, in others the government of the Felon will want to have the trial. We had some diplomatic disputes over this. We don't what know what government will hold the trial. The Alliance isn't the Earth's Government, Earth still has nation states. Shepard could be from the U.S. or maybe he could be my Grandgrandgrand (you get the idea)child and be from Germany.
By the Way, i want Shepard eating a Bratwurst in ME3

EDI and the Normandy is something different, it will have to be determined if EDI is officially a sentient being and can belong to a Person.

Making an AI may be illegal, so would purchasing one be. Creating EDI will be added to the long list of Cerberus Crimes.

If EDI is found to be a sentient being, she may lay claim to the Normandy. Cerberus is a non recognized rogue element doesn't even have the right to exist, let alone own anything. Either they "go legal" and stand trial for everything or they don't and everything that falls into anyone's Hands wont be cerberus gear anymore since they are outlaws.

EDI could be seen as a sentient being and as part of the Normandy. It could be seen as a rather harsh form of imprisonment to get the bluebox out and deprive her, a sentient being, of all sensory input. This is considered the worst kind of torture by many people.

EDI hasn't committed any crimes that would warrant something that would be akin to scooping the part of your Brain out that processes sensory information so you can't feel, see, smell, hear or taste anything ever again. Forever.

So i could see EDI being allowed to continue operating on the Normandy. She could even lay claim to ownership.
The Normandy is pretty much what provides a "body" to the mind that is EDI. Its her senses, her means of movement and even her means to communicate with others.
A Court might come to the conclusion that it might be able to separate this Mind from this Body, but doesn't have the right to do so.

If EDI is found to be a sentient being and if she may claim ownership to the normandy, the Normandy and EDI will be treated as Prisoners of War. Having past affiliations with Cerberus it would be determined if this affiliation really is "past" and many People will have many Questions about cerberus.

[didymos1120]

Madman123456 wrote...

EDI hasn't committed any crimes that would warrant something that would be akin to scooping the part of your Brain out that processes sensory information so you can't feel, see, smell, hear or taste anything ever again. Forever.

Yeah, here's the thing: she doesn't have to commit any crimes.  She's an AI.  That's enough under Council law to pull her plug.  She just plain doesn't have rights in Council space. Only four corporations in Council space are allowed to create AI, and only then for research purposes.  I.e., they're only allowed in an authorized, laboratory setting.

Modifié par didymos1120, 17 avril 2011 - 09:58 .

[Dean_the_Young]

MajorStranger wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is a freelance ship, It belong to Shepard, the same way Saren "owned" Sovereign. Joker and every shipmates are under Shepard's command only, he's a Spectre and doesn't have to answer to anyone.

Spectres answer to the Council.

The Alliance is on the Council, either as an equal quarter or as the entirity.

If the Alliance wants to make you answer, only the superior objections of the other Council races (if any) could stop them.

The rest of the Council isn't going to make a stand against Humanity for a crazy human Spectre who annihalated a Batarian colony and risks triggering a galactic war in the pursuit of insanity.

Your Ass is Grass.

[The BS Police]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

MajorStranger wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is a freelance ship, It belong to Shepard, the same way Saren "owned" Sovereign. Joker and every shipmates are under Shepard's command only, he's a Spectre and doesn't have to answer to anyone.

Spectres answer to the Council.

The Alliance is on the Council, either as an equal quarter or as the entirity.

If the Alliance wants to make you answer, only the superior objections of the other Council races (if any) could stop them.

The rest of the Council isn't going to make a stand against Humanity for a crazy human Spectre who annihalated a Batarian colony and risks triggering a galactic war in the pursuit of insanity.

Your Ass is Grass.

^^^^^
This!

There is no plot hole, since Humanity is on the council they can try Shepard anywhere they want to aslong as the rest of the Council doesn't see any problem with it.

[Icinix]

Joker is back to being an Alliance pilot (Alliance doesn't care about Cerberus, the trial is just an opportunity to present the Reaper information to the galaxy), EDI now has a portable body and is available as a squadmate.  The Normandy is now closer to a cruiser or dreadnaught size. It can now go toe to toe with a Reaper for a short time (but not sustained).  Liara will run her shadowbroker op from within the Normandy, it will become the central base of operations for the conflict throughout the galaxy allowing quick communication with allies and other races.

It will also have a small hangar for interceptors and the vehicle missions will actually allow space combat based strafing runs on Reapers and bases.

[didymos1120]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

MajorStranger wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is a freelance ship, It belong to Shepard, the same way Saren "owned" Sovereign. Joker and every shipmates are under Shepard's command only, he's a Spectre and doesn't have to answer to anyone.

Spectres answer to the Council.

The Alliance is on the Council, either as an equal quarter or as the entirity.

If the Alliance wants to make you answer, only the superior objections of the other Council races (if any) could stop them.

The rest of the Council isn't going to make a stand against Humanity for a crazy human Spectre who annihalated a Batarian colony and risks triggering a galactic war in the pursuit of insanity.

Your Ass is Grass.

Also, there's a part in Revelation where Saren considers just waxing Anderson, largely because he finds him annoying.  He reflects that he of course can, "on paper", do pretty much anything he damn well wants. But he doesn't do it. 

It's got nothing to do with Anderson, who's really nobody super-special at the time, even if he's being looked at for Spectre-dom at that point. It's everything to do with the fact that Saren knows his "rights as a Spectre" don't mean much if the Council says they don't, and the fact that he's fairly certain that if he kills Anderson, regardless of the excuse he offers, the Alliance is going to ask for his head and Council will give it to them, despite him being Mr. Super Awesome Youngest Spectre EVAR.

Now, if the Council would do that to appease a new, associate member over the life of one guy, is there really any doubt that Shep being a Spectre matters for jack after blowing up an ENTIRE STAR SYSTEM BY DESTROYING A MASS RELAY?  

Modifié par didymos1120, 17 avril 2011 - 01:08 .

[upsettingshorts]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The rest of the Council isn't going to make a stand against Humanity for a crazy human Spectre who annihalated a Batarian colony and risks triggering a galactic war in the pursuit of insanity.

Then they'd be fools to allow a precedent like that to stand without comment.

If a member race can simply charge a Spectre with a crime despite their extra-judicial near-carte blanche authority given to them by and through the Council alone, the entire organization will be in potential legal jeopardy - when they end up doing something a species simply doesn't like.

Granted, the Council does seem to be quite foolish, so not worrying about precedent and thinking only in the short term about that annoying Shepard guy wouldn't shock me.  Despite their supposed role as forward thinking galactic leaders.

Personally I think the Council ought to be the ones charging Shepard.  The Alliance' representative can be the prosecuting member.  That way they get to deal with the problem of the Batarian incident, and don't give up jurisdiction or authority regarding the Spectres to a member race.  But I'm not writing the canon, obviously.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 avril 2011 - 01:08 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The rest of the Council isn't going to make a stand against Humanity for a crazy human Spectre who annihalated a Batarian colony and risks triggering a galactic war in the pursuit of insanity.

Then they'd be fools to allow a precedent like that to stand without comment.

If a member race can simply charge a Spectre with a crime despite their extra-judicial near-carte blanche authority given to them by and through the Council alone, the entire organization will be in potential legal jeopardy - when they end up doing something a species simply doesn't like.

CoughSarenCough

CoughEntirePlotofMassEffect1Cough

Personally I think the Council ought to be the ones charging Shepard.  The Alliance' representative can be the prosecuting member.  That way they get to deal with the problem of the Batarian incident, and don't give up jurisdiction or authority regarding the Spectres to a member race.  But I'm not writing the canon, obviously.

Fortunately, the Alliance is a Council member, and any trying of Shepard can be blessed by the Council to meet whatever pro-forma desires you have.

[CroGamer002]

didymos1120 wrote...

Madman123456 wrote...

EDI hasn't committed any crimes that would warrant something that would be akin to scooping the part of your Brain out that processes sensory information so you can't feel, see, smell, hear or taste anything ever again. Forever.

Yeah, here's the thing: she doesn't have to commit any crimes.  She's an AI.  That's enough under Council law to pull her plug.  She just plain doesn't have rights in Council space. Only four corporations in Council space are allowed to create AI, and only then for research purposes.  I.e., they're only allowed in an authorized, laboratory setting.

They'll make an exception. Just this once.

[upsettingshorts]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

CoughSarenCough

CoughEntirePlotofMassEffect1Cough

I don't recall Saren being held for trial on Earth.

He was stripped of his Spectre status and Shepard - another Spectre, representing Council authority - sent after him. 

Fortunately, the Alliance is a Council member, and any trying of Shepard can be blessed by the Council to meet whatever pro-forma desires you have.

"Bless by the Council" = Voluntarily give up jurisdiction.  It still sets a precedent.  So would retroactively revoking Shepard's Spectre status to predate his actions at the Alpha Relay.  Provided Shepard got reinstated in the first place.

Regardless, I'm near certain the game is going to decide that none of this is going to be brought into question even though it is logical to think it might.  I also expect the Council to wash their hands of Shepard because he's a political lightning rod who by all outsider accounts is probably a crazed mass murderer.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[KenKenpachi]

From GI and Wiki Joker and Edi both are still in the game. The crew beats me.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Call from Alliance HQ.

"Hi there citadel dudes and dudettes, We have a desire to put old pal Shep on trial, what you say?"

"Ho there my human friend, Yeah get your trial fired up, Shepard has been nothing but trouble as of late so go right ahead, Well will "dismiss" that Shepard actually ever worked for us to the public".

"Al HQ here.. that's gravy old pal".

Rules only exist until somebody powerful enough sidesteps them.

[Dean_the_Young]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

CoughSarenCough

CoughEntirePlotofMassEffect1Cough

I don't recall Saren being held for trial on Earth.

He was stripped of his Spectre status and Shepard - another Spectre, representing Council authority - sent after him. 

And what do you think would have occured had Saren been taken alive, which was really at the Alliance's (Shepard's) discretion?

Citadel procedure for dealing with Rogue Spectres captured alive is whatever it wants... including letting said rogue-spectre be tried by their own species once the Council has given the nod.

Rogue spectres have existed before Shepard. There would be no new precedent unless otherwise stated.

"Bless by the Council" = Voluntarily give up jurisdiction.  It still sets a precedent.  So would retroactively revoking Shepard's Spectre status to predate his actions at the Alpha Relay.  Provided Shepard got reinstated in the first place.

It's only a precedent if it's the first time it's happened. Shepard is many things, but not the first rogue spectre.

[didymos1120]

Mesina2 wrote...
They'll make an exception. Just this once.

Oh, I don't doubt that EDI's gonna survive.  It won't be because she has any legal standing under Council law though.