45 réponses à ce sujet

[AVPen]

I've finally decided to go ahead and make a canon Shepard for myself (plus it gave me an opportunity to finally get my character up to level 60 for ME2 import). Now I''ve reached Virmire and well, I've sorta hit a dead end at the moment as to which character is worth saving: Ashley or Kaiden? Since I'm not romancing either one of them, I'm trying to approach this question in regards to the type of character that each one has, how they add/subtract to the plot and other characters of ME, any potential they may have for the future of the story (since the VS is now officially confirmed as coming back as a squadmate for ME3), etc. Needless to say, I'm also quite curious as to what other people's "Pros and Cons" for picking a specific character to survive Virmire would be (again, not based on romance or love interest, purely from a character perspective).

Examples:
- does Ashley dying really bring back her family's honor that was lost due to her grandfather actions? (or should she earn that another way rather of being a martyr)
- does Kaiden have anyone who would mourn him should he die (didn't recall hearing about any family when we talked), in comparision to Ashley and her mother and sisters?
- who is more (or better) of a "resource" to the Alliance military, Kaiden or Ashley?

Modifié par AVPen, 15 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[Mozer121]

I'll put it very simple.

I saved Ashley because she is a memorable and fun character to have around.

I'm sorry to all the Kaiden fans out there, but the guy is just boring and very uninteresting.

[Elite Midget]

These reasons.

1) The Nuke was already armed and Kaiden was alone. Ashley was alive and with Salarian Survivors.
2) I romanced her and at a moment of weakness my Shepard followed his heart. The Nuke being armed already just made it easier.
3) Ashley can do more to redeem her Family name as a Warhero to the people than just another casualty written into history.
4) Kaiden was already content with death and his life was already a painful one due to his L2 Implants.
5) I was already a Biotic so I didn't need him in my party while having Wrex/Ashley on Insanity was awesome since they refused to die.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 15 avril 2011 - 06:12 .

[FireEye]

-To the Alliance: Ashley's a soldier, which amounts to being a common resource.  Kaidan's a biotic, which amounts to being a rare resource.  He's also the commissioned officer, and generally you save them first.
-Kaidan has family: he's got a father he's on okay terms with and a mother who told him to bring a sweater to Noveria.  He's also got at least one cousin, but we don't know their standing other than Kaidan was able to call him up for a favor.
-I think Ashley could regain her family's honor without martyring herself - at the very least, she's made it this far (and jumps another rank come ME2).  I suspect, regardless of whether she lives or dies, she'll make it eventually (if she hasn't already from the battle of the Citadel).

... chances are, they'll still share a role come ME3.  So really, just choose whoever you like better.  Or choose based on whether you want to save the third team of salarians or your own marines.  Or flip a coin.  Or have a save with both.  IMHO, they're both good characters storywise for different reasons.

[CroGamer002]

Neither is better.

Both great for me.

I hate Virmire.

[Selenora]

Mesina2 wrote...

Neither is better.

Both great for me.

I hate Virmire.

Love you

[Elite Midget]

Hate Virmire?

But the CHOICES that matter! It totally changed that cameo you got in ME2!

[Aslanasadi]

Mesina2 wrote...

Neither is better.

Both great for me.

I hate Virmire.

^This

nothing else for me to add...

[jeweledleah]

I'm with Mesina on that one as well. edited to add.  some of us like both characters and would relaly like to keep them both alive and prefer to look beyond that plot device of a cameo in ME2

To add to FireEye's assessment.

Kaidan is an officer handpicked by Anderson for the Normandy crew. he can go a lot farther to go up the promotion ladder then Ashley, who is a non commissioned officer (that's' why she only gets promoted one rank, while Kaidan gets 2 - although nothing is stopping her from going to officer school at some point - no idea if its something she'd actually do)

Ash is younger.

Kaidan might have migraines, but he doesn't live that much of a painful life as long as he doesn't aggravate his implants.

both have some very fantastic ambient dialogue, though Ash gets more conversation options for maleshep, while Kaidan has more convo options for femshep.

regardless of whom you chose to save - you can save Kirrahe and some of the salarians provided you help them on the way to the labs (they split up into 3 teams, in the beginning - Kirrahe is leading his own team). you cannot save Salarians who are fighting at the AA tower, anymore then you can save alliance marines helping out whoever is with the bomb. unfortunately by the time you get to them - all but VS are decimated by Geth.

you can have Ashley guard the nuke and Kaidan go with Salarians, or the other way around - it basically changes the cut scene a bit, but either one of them can perform either of the roles.

technically - geth CAN disarm the bomb, which is why you have a person guarding it. think back to eden prime and you disarming the explosives, geth set. the bomb you set is less sophisticated, juryrigged, and the timer on it is longer.

in personal option, Kaidan makes a better teammate then Ashley on higher levels as he has the most versatile skill set of all your crew.

Both of them are ready to die, as they are both soldiers and are aware of the risks. contrary to what some people will have you believe, neither of them has a death wish - they are not actively courting death, they merely understand that sometimes, harsh measures have to be taken (in fact, there's a letter Ash wrote to her sister, that in retrospect foreshadows the virmire like choice)

in the end it really does come down to personal preference and/or role playing.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 15 avril 2011 - 06:53 .

[Ulathar]

Mesina2 wrote...
Neither is better.

Both great for me.

This. I don't know whether to love or hate Virmire, though. On the one hand I like how long I have to think about it every time I reach this point which should indicate how much I like both characters. On the other hand I hate that I have to choose between those two...I mean, couldn't Tali volunteer to arm that stupid bomb?

I guess two-thirds of the time I chose to save Ashley. Who I chose I always based on the way I RPd that particular Shepard.

[Interactive Civilian]

I can go either way...

From a in-game logical command standpoint, Kaiden is the clear choice. First of all, he's an officer (though this may not mean much, because by all accounts, Ashley probably should be an officer but has been held back because of her family history; also being an officer may not be an indicator of personal quality). More importantly, he's a human biotic, and a pretty powerful one. Human biotics are rare, and that alone should be rational reason enough for Shepard to sacrifice Ashley over him.

However, from an external, metagaming standpoint, I find Ashley's story more interesting and compelling. The after Virmire debrief dialog with her is rather powerful in my opinion. However, from the in-game standpoint, saving her is an emotional decision rather than a rational decision. Saving Kaidan can be an emotional choice as well, but at least you can come up with a rational argument for it.

Which is why I have two "canon" Shepards: one who saves Kaidan and one who saves Ashley.

I actually like both characters quite a bit (despite Kaidan's weird misunderstanding of friendly conversation as being a come on), and the Virmire decision still gets me every time, even after so many play throughs and even knowing who I am going to save in a play through.

And, personally, I prefer the fight on the AA tower over the fight near the bomb, so whoever I send with the Salarians is the one who gets saved. Here, it's reasonable to send either: Kaidan is an officer so has more command experience; Ashley is a grunt and so (probably) has more combat experience. Either is valuable in the Salarian's mission.

I assume that the nuke can't be stopped once set; i.e. it's an unstoppable chain reaction set in motion, rather than a timer or countdown detonator.

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 15 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[elarem]

With one exception (a male shepard who romanced Liara and going for the Soldier Ally achievement) all my Shepards (male and female) save Kaidan because he is a rare L2 biotic who spikes higher than the L3s (the exception being Shepard, of course). He is also a good officer with many commendations thus far in his career. On a personal note I find him very useful on the higher levels, especially with Liara or Wrex no matter what the class of my Shepard - it's probably just the way I like to play the game.

[Ultai]

Best?  Well my friend that is entirely up to you, we can't make your canon decision for you.  Where would the fun be in having someone tell you which choice to take when you want to shape your own personal story?

But personally my canon will stick by whoever is guarding the bomb (I haven't decided yet either, I like them both), since that's the whole point of the mission and can't have that getting messed with now can we?  Even though the cutscene with Saren holding Shep over the edge at the AA tower is more epic.

[Alienmorph]

I don't think there's an ultimate answer to this question. Personally I've always founded Ash personal story and and PoV more interesting and plothworthy, and surely the whole Horizon sequence is much more sensed with her, but I also like the Kaidan's philosophy "Hate the singles not their species... each of them has its bastards and its heroes." so as I said it is matter of tastes, there's not an absolute choice. I really hope that in ME3 both characters will return to their personalities, instead of being interchangable like on Horizon... it would make the choice much more interesting. I totally imagine that Ash would still has many doubts about the newest Shep's affiliates, plus something embrassing to say in case of alien romances, while Kaidan probably would focus his attention on the fact he's happy to be reunited with Shep, Liara and the other eventually other returning old pals. I'll keep Ash btw, I like the idea of having around my Shepard someone with hudge concerns about his actions and with no problems about externating them.

[Captain Crash]

You click a button and something awful happens


The Virmire decision is one the hardest moments in gaming.  Bioware did a great job at making me love both Ash and Kaidan.   Making that choice is really difficult even now.


Both have lovable attributes so making the choice is something I have to think long and hard about.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 15 avril 2011 - 10:25 .

[BlazeShepard]

Captain Crash wrote...

You click a button and something awful happens


The Virmire decision is one the hardest moments in gaming.  Bioware did a great job at making me love both Ash and Kaidan.   Making that choice is really difficult even now.


Both have lovable attributes so making the choice is something I have to think long and hard about.

I don't want to sound like a copycat but same thing for me.  I swear I spent 10 minutes my first playthrough wondering who would be left behind.  And then the sad music and dialogue afterward was very moving.  I think Mass Effect has been the only video game series that has ever made me emotional.

[Labrev]

I get the feeling that it's not going to make any difference in ME3, though I hope that's not the case.

Anyways, I go Kaidan myself, even though Ashley would have been my LI of choice.
--> He's a superior officer.
`-> Because of that, I send him with the salarians. So then, saving him means saving more people.
--> He has more skills to offer. As said above, biotics are rare commodities.
--> He strikes me as smart/wise, where Ash more naiive/short-sighted about things.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 27 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[jamesp81]

Mesina2 wrote...

Neither is better.

Both great for me.

I hate Virmire.

Agreed.  I'll have two canon sheps, one with each VS.  Because I'm a content wh**e.

Liked both of their characters quite a bit, actually.  Kaidan was very trustworthy and I found his insights on politics with the council illuminating.  He had a knack for reading between the lines and catching the important nuggets of info that I tended to miss or gloss over.

Ashley is a hard assed marine, a damned fine soldier, and no one's fool.  She's the kind of soldier you want watching your back.

Modifié par jamesp81, 27 mai 2011 - 03:30 .

[jamesp81]

Kaidan is an officer handpicked by Anderson for the Normandy crew. he can go a lot farther to go up the promotion ladder then Ashley, who is a non commissioned officer (that's' why she only gets promoted one rank, while Kaidan gets 2 - although nothing is stopping her from going to officer school at some point - no idea if its something she'd actually do)

She could become a 'mustang', an enlisted person who earns an officer's commission on the battlefield.  Seeing how the VS is supposed to be a Spectre, it might make sense.  Being a commissioned military officer might give a Specter just that much more political and personal clout.  Specter work generally is of the type you'd normally see a commissioned officer engaged in as well.

[V-rex]

There isn't really a 'right' answer to that. One might argue that given that Ashley's inexperienced in terms of exposure to galactic politics and big scale battles that she'd be the logical sacrifice as Kaidan is both a superior officer and seems to have the right amount of experience as a soldier.
So from a logical perspective, Kaidan makes sense.

But then again, Kaidan's also had a lot of experience in life whereas for Ashley there's so much she hasn't done. She hasn't been able to come to terms with family past and baggage that's been holding her back and there's still a lot she can see and learn and feel and do in her life that's still far ahead of her. She has potential to change her worldview, she has potential to redeem her family name and feel better about herself and learn to overcome preconcieved notions which is, largely, the main theme of Mass Effect 1.
So from a simple narrative and character growth choice, I'd pick Ashley.

Of course the fact that she's as hot as a thousand suns might have had something to do with it...

Whatever the case, make your pick and stick with it. This is just my assessment after all, Kaidan and Ash are equal in that respect. Like I said before, there's no right or wrong answer to this.

[Antivenger]

It's not that I didn't want to save Kaidan. It's just that I could never leave Ash behind.
A few reasons to add;

*Kaidan was a biotic, a "rare" resource from the standpoint of any other commissioned officer, but as far as combat goes both are pretty equal, but with different "styles".
*Kaidan seemed to be.. I don't know, more "at peace" with dying? Ash just wanted to redeem her family's honour. Too brash, that one...

Why the hell wasn't there an option to leave Kaidan (Bomb tech) with back up to fend off the Geth? Or hack the Anti-Air tower so it would blow up any Get Dropships?!?

[Ryzaki]

Personally Kaidan.

Ashley didn't do anything for my Shepards other than ninjamance them. And that wasn't desirable.

Kaidan has some tech expertise, and he's at the bomb site.

Making sure bomb goes off > Saving someone

So I save Kaidan and make sure the bomb goes off. Saving Ash just feels odd to me.

[jamesp81]

Alienmorph wrote...

I don't think there's an ultimate answer to this question. Personally I've always founded Ash personal story and and PoV more interesting and plothworthy, and surely the whole Horizon sequence is much more sensed with her, but I also like the Kaidan's philosophy "Hate the singles not their species... each of them has its bastards and its heroes."

This is one thing I really like about Kaidan.  He manages to be paragon about other species without going full-tilt, multi-cultural on me and making me doubt his loyalty to the Alliance.  He's got a real good head on his shoulders about all the other races being much like humanity.  Some of them are great people, and some of them need a good thorough killing.

[jamesp81]

Captain Crash wrote...

You click a button and something awful happens


The Virmire decision is one the hardest moments in gaming.  Bioware did a great job at making me love both Ash and Kaidan.   Making that choice is really difficult even now.


Both have lovable attributes so making the choice is something I have to think long and hard about.

I can half agree; it was a great bit of writing.  But I will always have a bit of hate tucked away in my heart that I won't get more Ashley and Kaidan banter in ME3.