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Not buying DA3 if Mike Laidlaw is still in the lead


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#126
Dragoonlordz

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Turnip Root wrote...

We need to start banning people for trashing Bioware games, fans, and employees. This is a forum for Bioware and it's fans and these haters can all burn in the 9th circle of Hell!


Remember you said that ^ when you say a single thing/aspect you dislike within a new title they make. I guess you would add fuel at least to the fires in hell. Failure to point out the bad aspects/changes btw leads to games with ever decreasing quality.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 05:44 .


#127
Halo Quea

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Turnip Root wrote...

We need to start banning people for trashing Bioware games, fans, and employees. This is a forum for Bioware and it's fans and these haters can all burn in the 9th circle of Hell!


Sarcasm is a beautiful thing when used properly ;)

#128
Guest_Strangely Brown_*

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Everwarden wrote...
It just so happens that the majority of people don't have purely happy thoughts about DA2.

Can I see the stats on this please?  Until then this is baseless opinion.

#129
Drogo45

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Everwarden wrote...

Turnip Root wrote...

We need to start banning people for trashing Bioware games, fans, and employees. This is a forum for Bioware and it's fans and these haters can all burn in the 9th circle of Hell!


"We"? When did you become a moderator?

And you're wrong, this is a forum for discussing Dragon Age 2. Hence the forum being named "Dragon Age II General Discussion (No Spoilers allowed)" and not "Bioware Fanboy Happy Fun Forum (No Haters allowed)".
It just so happens that the majority of people don't have purely happy thoughts about DA2. Maybe Bioware should make a better game next time? 


Janitor

#130
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

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That depends on how you define "trashing" Turnip Root. If you include legitimate criticism in that deffinition then there is no purpose to having forums because all you end up with is mindless praise. But...if you are refering to people who are just being disrespectful or rude, then I likely wouldn't disagree too much with some of the worst offenders being banned if it keeps things civil. But having a ban-happy forum is also very counter productive. The moderators tend to do a good job here from what I've seen.

#131
Akka le Vil

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I agree with Sabriana's take on this. Even if you produce a bad product, you can't mock it or else it only hurts their sales and then they have to start firing people.

Actually, it's more "you can't mock it until the next product is released", at which time you DO mock it by pointing how much everything in it sucked, but NOW you got your facts straight and this NEW product is just everybody's wet dreams.

Notice how DA:O was dissed as soon as they started to promote DA2 ?
Expect them to suddendly remember and point at all the flaws of DA2 that seems to be totally ignored for now, once DA3 is going to be launched.

#132
John Epler

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Drogo, please contribute to the discussion in the thread or refrain from posting. That sort of thing does no more for a constructive forum environment than insults or vitriol.

#133
Drogo45

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JohnEpler wrote...

Drogo, please contribute to the discussion in the thread or refrain from posting. That sort of thing does no more for a constructive forum environment than insults or vitriol.


Yes, sir.  Nice use of irony, by the way.

#134
Everwarden

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Strangely Brown wrote...
Can I see the stats on this please?  Until then this is baseless opinion.


Pick a forum at a major gamer website. Escapist, Gamespot, IGN, here, any will do. Check the number of people who hate the game, and the number who love the game. Keep a tally. Do this long enough and certain overwhelming trends will become obvious.

Or if you're too lazy for that, check metacritic. DA2 has a whopping 3 or 4 score, depending on platform. It isn't baseless opinion, it's objective reality. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

#135
Dragoonlordz

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If you hang around here long enough you see the two types of posters, a) the ones who are critical and/or praise the game B) the ones who are critical and/or praise each others opinions/statements. The latter are the ones that name call and attack each other. The former generally is much more civil.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2011 - 05:50 .


#136
Everwarden

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Drogo45 wrote...
Janitor


..is that supposed to be an insult? Are you calling me a janitor, or is that some forum-lingo that suggests that I am here to scrub out dirty forum bathrooms? Either way, I'd suggest learning to communicate your points a bit better than that. 

#137
Sabriana

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I agree with Sabriana's take on this. Even if you produce a bad product, you can't mock it or else it only hurts their sales and then they have to start firing people. Maybe several years from now we'll get a confession from some of the Devs about what a mishap DA 2 turned into but it sure won't come out any time soon if they value employment.

After reading or hearing several interviews I have become hesitant about Mr. Laidlaw's influence on future Bioware titles. Maybe he's just toting the company line, but as Lead Designer he did have a hand in alot of what went on in DA 2. In my opinion, his design choices, his decisions made and viewpoints on how the franchise should "evolve" have changed my impression of DA and Bioware's team on this title for the worse. I went from happily pre-ordering the collector's edition of Origins to not even bothering with the sequel after playing the demo numerous times, giving the offical game a try and finally watching an entire playthrough of the game to see if it would change my mind.

I'll keep an ear open to hear about developments of DA 3 but if Mr. Laidlaw is involved and has his way with it, then my expectations are rather low for the remainder of the series and I'm likely not buying future installments. Why buy something that isn't as robust and has less replayability than the first game? He's really redesigning the game into something else entirely and that's disheartening and also very bad design. Brand recognition is important, whether it is visual, playstyle, writing style, ect.


That's what I should have done. I did it for the DLC and the Exp for DA:O, came to the conclusion that they were not what I wanted and didn't get any of them.

However, I rushed out like a child who doesn't know any better and bought DA 2. I wish I hadn't. I trusted blindly, and got what I deserved - an expensive lesson in mature buyers behavior.

I don't think DA 2 is all bad. I liked act II (sans the ninja parachuters, mindless quests, huge plot-holes, etc). But I did like it. I would likely still have purchased DA 2, but not for the stiff price of 56 euros. Had I done my usual homework, I would have waited for the game to hit the bargain bins. I also wouldn't have been so devastatingly disappointed, because with proper research I would know what to expect.

It wasn't a bad little game. It was average, sort of like 'meh'  but good for a rainy afternoon. Imo, it was subpar to its predecessor in many ways. DA:O is still installed on my machine, and I still play it. Darnit, I pulled an all-nighter in the Deep Roads (yes, I'm one of those who love the Deep Roads), and didn't even notice it. I had no problem turning off DA 2 at any given time to play with my kids, wash my windows (it's spring, yay), or chat with the neighbor-lady.

#138
Turnip Root

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[Non constructive post removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 15 avril 2011 - 06:00 .


#139
John Epler

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Again. Disagree, but do so civilly. And that includes people who are in favour of the changes in DA2 - referring to the other side as haters or trolls is not acceptable behaviour.

#140
FedericoV

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Everwarden wrote...

Pick a forum at a major gamer website. Escapist, Gamespot, IGN, here, any will do. Check the number of people who hate the game, and the number who love the game. Keep a tally. Do this long enough and certain overwhelming trends will become obvious.


Except the "classics" or "goty", find me a game where the trend is different. I've seen mostly negative threads about GTA IV and CoD... still, they are some of the best selling games of all time. Mind, I'm not dismissing you and you could be right, but forum trends are not hard facts. Even DA:O received the same treatment (in Bioware's forums too). We will have some evidence on DA2 reception when and if we'll know anything about the future of the franchise.

#141
slimgrin

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I'm normally not an optimist on this topic, but I feel the need to point out how much the Mass Effect team is putting back in to ME3.

Maybe Bioware got the message ( or EA, I mean :P ) and will do the same for DA3.

#142
orbit991

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I have nothing personal against Mr Laidlaw but judging from the interviews we seem to like different types of games, so I'm not very interested in he's future projects. But this is likely moot anyway as I think this franchise has decided to go in the hack and slash direction regardless of what our gripes may be.

#143
MingWolf

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Even DA:O received the same treatment (in Bioware's forums too). We will have some evidence on DA2 reception when and if we'll know anything about the future of the franchise.


I don't recall the mass mobs in the DA:O forums. The most outrageous picketing was on petty topics like "mages are overpowered" and difficulty imbalances, if I remember correctly. Certainly there weren't so much of the whole "fire the lead designer" types either, and even I missed them, they didn't exactly pop up every day.

There is no hard facts, but trends tell a story. Those who have taken a few statistic classes can appreciate this.

#144
AlexXIV

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So you're not buying DA3. Thanks for sharing this information with us.

#145
Uzaik

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The man should be fired. Period. Alienating the consumers while barely increasing sales, and he holds an arrogant stance against any and all criticism. Scapegoat or not, the man is a burden.

#146
Catsith

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MorrigansLove wrote...

Bioware has changed for the worst and we all know it.


Yes, but I wouldn't place the blame solely on Laidlaw. He is definetly part of the problem, but the Doctors are too. It's their direction the company goes in, no matter what happens.. this is why one of the former lead DA designer literally quit working at Bioware, because he didn't agree with their vision, and Laidlaw stepped in to take over. It's because they want to be that bridge between the casual and hardcore to ensure as large an audience as possible, and they haven't found a successful way to do that yet. Laidlaw's solution to peoples complaints about DA2 being a brainless action game is to "turn the difficulty to hard"... which pretty much shows how clueless he is about people's issues. ME2 didn't sell more than ME1 despite stripping out the RPG and calling the game a Shooter, and DA2 will not sell as much as DA:O despite them trying to make it way more of an action-RPG full of exploding bodies. They will need to re-think their strategy or continue to sink their reputation with the core fans and become the next Lionhead Studios, while studios like Bethesda will continue to sell 5+ million copies of their non-dumbed down RPGs.

#147
axl99

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Arrogant? Mike Laidlaw?

What about the people asking for him to get fired? What authority do they have?

#148
Guest_Strangely Brown_*

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Everwarden wrote...

Strangely Brown wrote...
Can I see the stats on this please?  Until then this is baseless opinion.


Pick a forum at a major gamer website. Escapist, Gamespot, IGN, here, any will do. Check the number of people who hate the game, and the number who love the game. Keep a tally. Do this long enough and certain overwhelming trends will become obvious.

Or if you're too lazy for that, check metacritic. DA2 has a whopping 3 or 4 score, depending on platform. It isn't baseless opinion, it's objective reality. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

I'm sorry but no.  Forum posting are not an accurate representation.  There are far mor eplayers of the game that don't post on forums than those that do.

#149
Kortok

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Just came in to say that under no circumstances will I buy DA3 if Laidlaw is the lead designer. There is simply too much competition for my time nowadays for me to waste it on another game like DA2. Wish I had those 40 hours/$67 back.

Fool me once...

#150
Guest_Strangely Brown_*

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axl99 wrote...

Arrogant? Mike Laidlaw?

What about the people asking for him to get fired? What authority do they have?

I echo this sentiment/question.