248 réponses à ce sujet

[GlobularFoody]

We don't care about combat log. This is not WoW. Play the game and enjoy it or don't, the game devs have better things to do than placate the obsessive MMO stat ****.

[Locain]

-1 I get way too attached to stuff and skills if the numbers are there. This way I'm "roleplaying" more In my opinion

Feel free to disagree, hehe.

[Sceptic83]

Also my arguement is not that it should be done but that there are more importent things for time and effort to be spent on at this time that would benefit everyone.

Such as? 

[Seifz]

Cquattro2009 wrote...

Seifz wrote...

-1 from me. I'm glad that I don't feel compelled to look over all of the numbers and min/max the hell out of my characters. It's refreshing to just see "increases damage, lowers attack" and decide "that sounds like something my warrior would want" or "nah, my warrior's not that kinda guy." Numbers and theorycrafting are what killed the fun in WoW.

Except you don't have to crunch numbers or theorycraft if you don't want to.  For those of us who do care though, "Increases Damage" is never going to replace "Increases Damage by 10" 

I've never seen an RPG like this that didn't give you at least SOME idea of how potent an item is. 

You can see exactly how potent every item is.  The stats on items are not hidden from you in any way whatsoever.  The only item stats that you can't see directly are the set bonuses.  But, those are pretty easy to figure out anyway.

Look, anyone who really cares about the numbers can just go look at the toolset wiki.  Go, crunch numbers, have fun.  Nobody is stopping you.  What's important, though, is that this method of access is out of the game and not in my face while I'm trying to enjoy the story and characters.  Right now, DA:O is a great role-playing game.  My character has a personality that often determines whether or not he'll train or use certain abilities.

Add a combat log and detailed spell descriptions and you totally kill that immersion.  The game becomes nothing but a math problem for me.  Once I've designed the optimal character (and I can always guarantee that it'll be a melee character with a lot of armor, despite all of the whining about Mages that I've read on these forums), the game is over.  I don't even have to play the character all the way through the campaign.  Actually, doing so is often boring because the challenge of battle is removed entirely.

DA:O is different than a lot of RPGs.  I think that this is a Good Thing.  Why do you want DA:O to be like every other RPG?  Do you remember BG2 as "the best game ever" because of the characters and story, or do you remember it because of the combat system?  I highly doubt that the majority of players would choose the combat system.  Let's be honest:  AD&D v2.0 sucked for computer games.  Besides that, a lot of games used it.  What really made BG2 special?  What really makes an RPG great?  It's not the numbers.

[Pseudo310]

Having a crappily balanced game ruins my immersion, and a combat log would let us provide Bioware with feedback for balance issues. Thus helping my immersion.

[addiction21]

Sceptic83 wrote...

Also my arguement is not that it should be done but that there are more importent things for time and effort to be spent on at this time that would benefit everyone.

Such as? 

Bug fixes, broken animations, broken quests, this whole "mage unbalanced thing" that has far more people up in arms then a lack of combat logs, DLC problems, DRM troubles, etc etc etc..   I.E. Improving and fixing what is allready there first before moving on to what some players want.

[Chlamydion]

@addition21: Everything takes game resources, to include DLC. And I don't think that too many of us believe that Bioware is holding out on us, and planning to provide a combat log as a DLC item. (Of course, could be...)



My take is similar to many I've seen in this thread and others. I'd really, really like to have information that would let me make informed decisions about my character's career choices, instead of counting the letters in some item's nomenclature and hoping that numerologically that has some significance. That's all I'm saying, and while it's certainly not Bioware's highest priority regarding game code right now, I hope it's not being dismissed out of hand.



Imagine signing up for math classes when the description is:



Provides knowledge of some math skill.

[Grovermancer]

addiction21 wrote...
Nice adhomenims there. I never said anything about my great ability to play games. Fact is I am rather mediocre and have not even tried nightmare yet.

You said "I can play this game."  What was that supposed to imply?  Why even say it?  How is that relevant to people wanting optional access to a combat log?

Yes it would have to be added. Why you might ask? Well because its not there. All those numbers are running under the hood so to speak.Ever driven a car? All those gauges and meters in the dashboard have to be added and things need to go into them. How to implement them, what colors will it be, what shapes, the information that will be displayed, how to run the wiring from the equipment that monitor all such things.
Just like what would have to be done with adding a combat log. What type of information will be displayed, how will it be displayed, where will it be displayed, what setting will go with it, what options, how interactive will it be, who is going to do it, who is writing the code, testing it to make sure it is displaying the correct information.
You dont just go "LET THERE BE COMBAT LOGS!!!"  AND BAM THERE IT IS, let us all rejoice in its might and glory.
Also my arguement is not that it should be done but that there are more importent things for time and effort to be spent on at this time that would benefit everyone.  
Dont like it? Dont respond. 

I'm
betting it would take minimal effort.  Remember NWN?  Something even as
simplistic as that would be sufficient for those that want it.

What other things are so important?  An archery fix?  Absolutely.  What else?  (they had a rudimentary fix out in days...  it's not like it's so demanding)

I wouldn't be surprised if they already have 'the code' done for a combat log.  Pretty much every other BW RPG has them.  It doesn't have to look pretty. (and doesn't need to come before more dire fixes, like the archery problems and any blatent glitches or bugs)


I still just can't believe people would argue so much against something that needn't in any way effect them; basically arguing against the enjoyment of other people. 

Modifié par Grovermancer, 19 novembre 2009 - 08:34 .

[Sceptic83]

addiction21 wrote...

Sceptic83 wrote...

Also my arguement is not that it should be done but that there are more importent things for time and effort to be spent on at this time that would benefit everyone.

Such as? 

Bug fixes, broken animations, broken quests, this whole "mage unbalanced thing" that has far more people up in arms then a lack of combat logs, DLC problems, DRM troubles, etc etc etc..   I.E. Improving and fixing what is allready there first before moving on to what some players want.

Oh cmon don't come with that. They are just planning more dlcs to make more money. That's the actual videogame trend.

[drjones]

No reason not to include the option to at least view a log. It would take dev time, but what are the odds they made this fantabulously complex and elegant combat system without some way of logging encounters? 0.



Maybe they really hate math nerds who obsessively pour over every stat and point out where things are broken and how to take advantage but seeing as how it's a SINGLE PLAYER GAME it really don't matter if someone else ruins their game experience my exploiting every weakness gleaned from a combat log.



More info, more options are always better.

[ladydesire]

How about this idea. Rather than have an "in your face" log (this is the kind that's sitting at the lower left corner of the screen in NWN and NWN2) like some games have, why don't we ask Bioware nicely for a redesigned Character sheet that has three tabs; the current Character Sheet with the level up button, a Heroic Achievements tab (which is really enough of a combat log for me, by the way) and a tab that lists the last 25 battles that we have fought, with full damage stats from those combats recorded in much the same way as the Journal handles the last 25 conversations we have had.

[robotnist]

the numbers are already there. were just not told what they do. so for those of you who dont want it, you wont. but for those of us who care about determining stat crunching (i love it) its an option for us to get more enjoyment from the game.



i hope they employ some info panes, cheers.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Seifz wrote...
 My character has a personality that often determines whether or not he'll train or use certain abilities... Add a combat log and detailed spell descriptions and you totally kill that immersion.

That's ridiculous; if you've actually created a persona for your character, if you've actually breathed life into it and made it your own, how is something minor like a combat log with detailed information going to destroy all that?  The character is YOU; it's an aspect of yourself - or several aspects - that you've chosen to represent through a virtual medium in a specific manner.  You're telling me a combatlog > you?  I dont buy it.

Either you're not very imaginative or 'immersion' is just a BS argument.  I'm leaning towards the latter.

Modifié par Wolff Laarcen, 19 novembre 2009 - 09:14 .

[Grimmwor Runeforger]

+1

I would love a combat log. I completely expect them add one in a future patch. It shouldn't be too hard to make it optional, kind of like the mini-map, to satisfy both camps, those who want it and those who don't. If Bioware doesn't do it, won't be long before someone in the mod community creates one...well, at least for PC :-)

[Sceptic83]

Ok, opinions were said, now tell us something Bioware! 

[Joe Ronimo]

/signed

GlobularFoody wrote...

We don't care about combat log. This is not WoW. Play the game and enjoy it or don't, the game devs have better things to do than placate the obsessive MMO stat ****.

Good one. You were joking, right?

[Red-Cell]

Heaven forbid I play an RPG where being literate and being required to look at numbers is a requirement for successful gaming!



I demand a complex genre based entirely on formulas and numbers be dumbed down to suit my tastes!

[Scarmiglion]

The comparison to WoW is somewhat valid and I'm not sure what to think. I min/max enough in WoW right now as it is. DA:O is supposed to be the game I play to relax a bit and get away from the WoW mentality.



I'm not against the combat log for one reason. That reason is that sometimes I get clobbered unexpectedly and it would be nice to be able to "rewind" and find out what kicked my butt. That's about the only reason I would have to have one.



The mechanics descriptions I don't really need. Besides, a huge amount of it could be figured out by looking at the scripts in the toolset.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Scarmiglion wrote...
DA:O is supposed to be the game I play to relax a bit and get away from the WoW mentality.

Is it?  I must have missed that page in the instruction manual...

[PappaCube]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Sceptic83 wrote...

I'm sick of this -1 ones. If you don't like numbers go play easy with consolle or go fps. Rpg games and strategic games do have numbers.

And I am sick of +1 ones.   If yuo like numbers so much go play a math game, math games do have numbers.


My point here is that everyone is allowed to have an opinion, especially when you post a subject in an open forums that  starts with 'We want'.   Welcome to life, kid.

+1 +1 +1

blblbblblbl   


I would like to have a combat log so that I could take a look to see if that "increase to xxxx"  is actually happening or is BW just pulling a fast one on us.      


Oh and I do want to know which spell my mage uses the most while running a particular tactics build.  Maybe I want to add a rule to tell them to keep their dang finger off that spell and throw a different one once in a while.

[Godeshus]

How selfish you people are is seriously sickening. To argue that YOU don't want to see stats is one thing, but to actively protest against ME wanting to see them is entirely different. This entire topic has gotten out of hand.
From the AGAINST angle, the only legitimate reason is that it would divert resources from other improvements, such as bugfixes. This argument DOES NOT HOLD UP PERIOD. If I want to see what's going on behind the scenes of a web page, I go into my browser's view menu and click on "show source code", and there it is. All of these mechanics are already there. Showing them is NOT going to take time away from fixing your precious broken quest. Besides, How much extra time would it have possibly taken for the Bioware team to type "raises stamina by 1" instead of the current "slightly raises stamina". It's not like they had to mentally figure out then write a hex code for every single letter. We're talking text. Bioware you F****d up here, I paid you for a broken product. Now fix it. Period. Taking numbers away from a numbers game is just idiotic. (rest of the game is awesome, though).
From the FOR angle. The only person who has anything useful to say (there are others, but they are all arguing the same thing), is Statue. But seriously dude, trim your bloody posts. Argue all you want about the "stupid" people who have "ADHD" and don't have the attention span to read your novels, but this seems to be your target audience. Counter productive much? Congratulations! you have an extensive and eloquent use of the english language. You're gramatically more intelligent than everyone else on these forums. When I want information (such as in game accurate stats) I don't want to interrupt my gameflow to get it. Nor do I want to sift through a pile of lyrical nonsense when the same thing could be said in 3 short paragraphs. I seriously doubt that the Bioware mods who are looking for constructive feedback want to either. You're simply not helping your cause, and I genuinely mean that in the nicest possible way. You're points are extremely valid and well thought out. Just cut out the crap and people might actually listen to you.

Modifié par Godeshus, 19 novembre 2009 - 11:02 .

[Statue]

Hey, I'm not calling folks stupid or diagnosing anyone with ADHD. But fair point on my average post length though. This one brings down that average

[Godeshus]

Lol, clever. Oops about the stupid thing, though. I was pretty sure I remembered you saying that when I posted above, but after searching, turns out it was someone else. Apologies, good man. Was gonna quote it here, but pointless, now.

[Pocketgb]

Leveling blind is never fun. It's the same reason we want to know what's in our food: you wouldn't be something that simply "Mm-Mm Tasty Meal!", would you?

And the increasing trend in Bioware not implementing combat logs is pretty upsetting. We're not saying we want it to be like WoW, we're saying we want it to be like Neverwinter Nights : )

And yes, thank you for such awesome responses, Georg: straight to the point with no BS, making us proud to support Bioware : )

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:19 .

[Wolff Laarcen]

Godeshus wrote...

How selfish you people are is seriously sickening. To argue that YOU don't want to see stats is one thing, but to actively protest against ME wanting to see them is entirely different. This entire topic has gotten out of hand.
From the AGAINST angle, the only legitimate reason is that it would divert resources from other improvements, such as bugfixes. This argument DOES NOT HOLD UP PERIOD. If I want to see what's going on behind the scenes of a web page, I go into my browser's view menu and click on "show source code", and there it is. All of these mechanics are already there. Showing them is NOT going to take time away from fixing your precious broken quest. Besides, How much extra time would it have possibly taken for the Bioware team to type "raises stamina by 1" instead of the current "slightly raises stamina". It's not like they had to mentally figure out then write a hex code for every single letter. We're talking text. Bioware you F****d up here, I paid you for a broken product. Now fix it. Period. Taking numbers away from a numbers game is just idiotic. (rest of the game is awesome, though).
From the FOR angle. The only person who has anything useful to say (there are others, but they are all arguing the same thing), is Statue. But seriously dude, trim your bloody posts. Argue all you want about the "stupid" people who have "ADHD" and don't have the attention span to read your novels, but this seems to be your target audience. Counter productive much? Congratulations! you have an extensive and eloquent use of the english language. You're gramatically more intelligent than everyone else on these forums. When I want information (such as in game accurate stats) I don't want to interrupt my gameflow to get it. Nor do I want to sift through a pile of lyrical nonsense when the same thing could be said in 3 short paragraphs. I seriously doubt that the Bioware mods who are looking for constructive feedback want to either. You're simply not helping your cause, and I genuinely mean that in the nicest possible way. You're points are extremely valid and well thought out. Just cut out the crap and people might actually listen to you.

Says the guy who posts a wall of text... gtfo.