14 réponses à ce sujet

[IN1]

1. The build:

The concept was outlined in greater detail by me elsewhere (all over these forums, to be honest). The main idea is to rely on generic level 5 +fire apparel (req's: 14 Mag/14 Wil), Dura's Blue Flame, Ring of the Magister and generic +fire accessories of as high level as possible. All those, plus Reaver spec bonus, will let you to benefit from an unprecedented that early into the game +50% fire damage bonus, making Anderfel Cleaver elemental 2H build more than just viable.

The build is very cheap (not only metaphorically: generic gear costs virtually nothing), so you can afford all the tomes/elixirs, and, if you are really greedy and anal, probably even Fallen Star. I did not buy Fallen Star (in fact, I never do on serious playthroughs -- I don't think it's worth 48 g), using for attribute pre-buff accessories: Enchanted Silverite Belt, Meghan Vael's Locket, Ring of Resilience, Air of Confidence. This way, you have to invest only 2 points into Mag, and none into Wil. Dump the rest into Str.

As to fire-immune enemies, I prefer to respec before and after Qunari quests (Blackpowder -> Wolves), since that's where Desdemona really shines. Alternatively, you can complete everything but Qunari quests, respec to S&S Desdemona, then just go with nature setup through Blackpowder -> Wolves -> Deep Roads, as both Qunari and Darkspawn are weak to nature. Either way, the key is arranging your quests by enemy immunity. For Rage Demons that appear in all areas, switching to Fadeshear is enough.

This build is very fragile. You are not a mage, of course, but archers will be your arch-enemy. Rush-kiting (rush attack, retreat out of range, rush attack, etc.) is usually the answer both to the archers when they are not alone, and just to tough enemy groups, when you are low on health. If they are alone or in a small group, you can just stomp them. 

Risk:reward ratio for this build is extremely high, but once you master rush-kiting and proper Devour use, the fights will become quite short and enjoyable. Restoration potion and Devour give you 3 full health bars per fight, so it's not that bad.  

The specific build I use in the video is this. Oh, and yes, I have both Might and Control activated. Theoretically, these modes should be mutually exclusive, but they are not, in case someone is wondering.

2. Night Lies Quest:

Phase I
Phase II
Phase III

The most challenging and demanding Act I encounter, especially for a soloist. That's why I always do it as late into the act as possible, immediately before the Deep Roads Expedition (you should be level 11-12, if you are a completist). The main principle is: always close the door behind you, since it narrows enemies' perception range. The total number of hostiles becomes manageable, plus you can actually save (or just rest, if you are so inclined) between the phases. I really recommend saving and re-loading to reset the cooldown timers, though. 

Modifié par IN1, 15 avril 2011 - 01:29 .

[mokponobi]

Awesome experiment, I would suggest 1 thing, you may actually gain damage by reducing str a bit and investing some in magic and will and wearing fire-damage boosting mage gear.

Hmm, looking again it looks like you already are wearing +fire damage gear. Forget what I said then, I like the build, imaging how much more damaging it would be in a party with buffs like haste, heroic aura etc.

Modifié par mokponobi, 15 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[Goller]

Love your post about pushing the game to the limit and show mechanics.. keep it up

Modifié par Goller, 15 avril 2011 - 05:54 .

[Att3r0]

Hi this is actually counter-productive to wait till 11-12 to do it.
THe reason for that is that you do not get better weapon at higher level you are using the same weapon you could buy at start of act.
I soloed it at lv 8. just cleaver even without runes + dura amulet, rest regular warrior gear. As for abilities cleave scythe and blood frenzy, used 1 regular hp pot and 1 cobustion granade (wasnt in need rly but since i had it ..no buff pots.) Open the door wait a bit then cleave scythe kill most run to the oposite end of room they will follow ... kill save ..pull rest ...easy.

let me repeat myself - level is your enemy not friend ><

Modifié par Att3r0, 15 avril 2011 - 05:53 .

[IN1]

Att3r0 wrote...

Hi this is actually counter-productive to wait till 11-12 to do it.
THe reason for that is that you do not get better weapon at higher level you are using the same weapon you could buy at start of act.
I soloed it at lv 8. just cleaver even without runes + dura amulet, rest regular warrior gear. As for abilities cleave scythe and blood frenzy, used 1 regular hp pot and 1 cobustion granade (wasnt in need rly but since i had it ..no buff pots.) Open the door wait a bit then cleave scythe kill most run to the oposite end of room they will follow ... kill save ..pull rest ...easy.

let me repeat myself - level is your enemy not friend ><

I disagree. 4 talent points make a huge difference here. Sacrificial Frenzy is the biggest damage-booster in this game. And Scythe, especially non-upgraded Scythe, both does crappy damage and has a really weird hitbox: compared to Mighty Blow, it's just a badly designed talent. Oh, and were you trying to handicap yourself by equipping standard warrior gear while using Anderfel?  

By the way, instead of saying "easy", then advising to do the same things I do in the video, you are free to post your video of this fight in the same format. With your level 8 warrior using Scythe. Then the comparison will be meaningful. Currently, I'm inclined to believe those 4 talent points allow you much more than just to keep up with enemy hp scaling.

This fight is anything but easy, and it took me a lot of trial-and-error stuff to figure the correct way to handle it solo with a non-rogue.

[Att3r0]

you sound exactly those that you flamed in other thread. Sac frenzy is not needed, so is devour, same goes for + fire gear a cleave+scythe /mighty blow kills at spot anything but those semi-elites.
As for being easy ...yea i did it with 1 load that acured after i killed the boss. (i however did it with just anders healer some time ago so i had some expirience)
Trick is to ensure archers wont spawn before boss is dead (aka before you are able to save) . To ensure that you need to make boss come to the top platform before finishing all the initial adds (3 must be alive or around that).
As for making a movie - dont have prog for it. Tried fraps trial but it records nothing Oo win7 64

Modifié par Att3r0, 15 avril 2011 - 07:25 .

[aethernox]

This is a solo thread. Replying with tactics and experience from a non-solo run is... well, honestly, completely worthless. Without the damage and survivability of the extra levels, I doubt that Night Lies is solo-able. I'm inclined to trust IN1 on this topic, and most others.

Edit:
Also, Cleave is the biggest damage booster, since at best Sacrificial Frenzy can only grant ~+99% damage. Correct?

Modifié par aethernox, 15 avril 2011 - 07:34 .

[IN1]

Look, you, as usual, provide absolutely no proof, either mathematical (say, level 8 Qerth has only 47.5% hp compared to level 12 Qerth), or in a video form.

The tactics you describe are common sense and already demonstrated in the video attached to the OP.

All in all, I have a hard time believing an Anderfel level 8 warrior with absurd physical gear, using a crappy, long cooldown talent (Scythe) will solo this scenario easily.

[Att3r0]

the hp differance is i guess 25% ? but also they deal less damage.. At top of that i use High armor gear and i dont use sac frenzy. That said i used dog you didn't ...should i go without it?
stay tuned tomorrow i will try to f@#% force fraps to work. If it wont i might use cam Q_Q

[IN1]

Att3r0 wrote...

the hp differance is i guess 25% ? but also they deal less damage.. At top of that i use High armor gear and i dont use sac frenzy. That said i used dog you didn't ...should i go without it?
stay tuned tomorrow i will try to f@#% force fraps to work. If it wont i might use cam Q_Q

Listen, it's not a request or something If you can get your fraps working -- fine, but there is no need to stretch yourself.

If you do manage to capture it, for the comparison to be symmetrical -- no mabari, all attributes, talents, and gear demonstrated before the fight. Good luck! 

[IN1]

aethernox wrote...

This is a solo thread. Replying with tactics and experience from a non-solo run is... well, honestly, completely worthless. Without the damage and survivability of the extra levels, I doubt that Night Lies is solo-able. I'm inclined to trust IN1 on this topic, and most others.

Edit:
Also, Cleave is the biggest damage booster, since at best Sacrificial Frenzy can only grant ~+99% damage. Correct?

Why +99%? A maximum for Blood is 199.9% base damage. Sacrificial doubles this. You think it's kind of like Cleave and, eh, double Cleave (+100% and +200%, respectively)? Hmmm... Needs some more testing. I'm inclined to believe SF works the way I think it works, since the damage output increase is enormous. Anyway, I'll test it later today.

[Att3r0]

Yea! i went into frenzy of reinstaling and disabling things and so i menaged to record it and compress.

Part 1
Part 2

you will see i have wirlwind and tremor talents that i shouldnt have - the save is from my first play and you can imagine i was quite clueless then. So i had eaten the respec bug. I dont use them so there should be no problem. HP bars are bugged due to using 1.00 exe while game is patched for 1.02 (yea i cant run with the official one ;/) if the blue bar disapoears i die belive me ;] (i belive the invisible part is when hp is safe and blue when hp warrning starts)


ok few notes :
- I initialy wait to pull melee away and have some time with archers - sadly i cant kill them all or next wave spawns.
- The figth is not ideal - you can say i failed this time or you can consider it a handicap - at 1:08 in first part you will see 2 guards coming that shouldnt have - thats coz the boss was not on top platform when i killed the last archer and they spawned + aggroed. And after i killed them next wave spawns with archers on stairs - that caused me to go dangerously low on hp but i was able to use pot so it wasnt a real problem ;].
- obviously the subsequent fight could be split into 2.

I say its easy coz after you kill archers its just a simple kite and wait for CDs.

Modifié par Att3r0, 16 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[IN1]

I appreciate your dedication, no irony.

But in what way was it easier than doing it at level 12, exactly? That was your main point, correct? Basically, you told us all: "Pfffft! It's much easier as level 8 warrior using Scythe and nonsensical gear!". What we see in the videos, de facto:

- The same pattern exactly as shown in mine, only with strange semi-random non-optimized gear (I was particularly impressed by +3% physical damage ring -- that's uber-l33t with Anderfel!) and, obviously, more kiting.
- Your videos appear shorter than mine (do they?), since you don't pause, and I pause every freaking second. If you analyze the fight stage-by-stage, every stage was faster and easier with optimized level 12 character.
- The damage output isn't even comparable, by the way.
- Scythe shows exactly how flawed it is. On two occasions, you could have wiped 2 different enemy clusters totally with Mighty Blow, that is both predictable as far as its hitbox is considered, and deals a lot more damage. You opted for your beloved Scythe instead, that looks cool, but does not have much real merit. This weird semi-teleport ability killed 2 enemies and left the rest intact. That happens all the time, not your fault. It's just a mediocre talent with an inconsistent hitbox.

On a positive side, I suppose this video can serve as an ample proof that given experience (=knowledge of spawning points), any player can solo this scenario, then respec to Desdemona, and do Blackpowder > Wolves > Deep Roads. Whether you really want to do it is up to you. Personally, I don't think it's worth the sweat, but your opinion may differ.

As a side note, your game is not 1.02. Those weird life/stamina bars appear only if your executable is still 1.00. Strangely enough, the fixes do not apply to your game in that case. Trust me. Do a quick test with Rally being transferrable, you'll see it is not working. Do something about that, as patch 1.02 really fixes a lot of issues.

Once again, thanks for your effort, at least you have demonstrated you are quite a competent player, if not exactly a great optimizer Don't take my remarks as personal vendetta. I hold no grudge against you -- I'm criticizing your position, not you personally.

[Att3r0]

I did not criticize the way you did it just the all the forced +fire gear stacking and waiting till 12 lv.. why bother? as you see i did it with just a casual char equiped with those 2 dlc items + respec.

The scythe might not be as awesome as it looks but i do have scythe and MB while you only have MB and yea i love using it ^^

As for being easier - i didnt stack might and control just went with control for +attack as my str is too low yet, no buff pots and only used 1 hp pot i had quite a space for error while check your hp at 1:30 in first movie ^^. I overaly dont consider this fight hard if done with mid-saving. And obviously expirience makes things easy - we arnt realy expecting anyone to solo things on NM on his first run.

exe - yea i know the code bugs are there but it fixed some drop bugs and quest ones (or so i hope) cant do anything about it ;/ tried everything my best bet is to get updated "unofficial" exe ,,,.

EDIT: oh i forgot to mention my epic +3% physical ring! i did not had better lol! belive me loaded the save and checked my gear and was like ok ...+3% physical ring and another +3% physical ring! Woot probably could have jacked something better of companions. Casual play > min-max

Modifié par Att3r0, 16 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[IN1]

Att3r0 wrote...

I did not criticize the way you did it just the all the forced +fire gear stacking and waiting till 12 lv.. why bother? as you see i did it with just a casual char equiped with those 2 dlc items + respec.

The scythe might not be as awesome as it looks but i do have scythe and MB while you only have MB and yea i love using it ^^

As for being easier - i didnt stack might and control just went with control for +attack as my str is too low yet, no buff pots and only used 1 hp pot i had quite a space for error while check your hp at 1:30 in first movie ^^. I overaly dont consider this fight hard if done with mid-saving. And obviously expirience makes things easy - we arnt realy expecting anyone to solo things on NM on his first run.

exe - yea i know the code bugs are there but it fixed some drop bugs and quest ones (or so i hope) cant do anything about it ;/ tried everything my best bet is to get updated "unofficial" exe ,,,.

EDIT: oh i forgot to mention my epic +3% physical ring! i did not had better lol! belive me loaded the save and checked my gear and was like ok ...+3% physical ring and another +3% physical ring! Woot probably could have jacked something better of companions. Casual play > min-max

Yes, elemental Anderfel warrior is quite a glass cannon, as I am the first to admit in my build notes. Basically, you are a mage with warrior talents. However, it synergizes well with both Reaver Frenzies and Devour. Overall, I think his insane AoE damage is well worth the risk even solo. With a party of Anders (Haste #1, Heroic Aura), Bethany (Haste #2), and Aveline (Bodyguard), it feels like you are playing Casual.