123 réponses à ce sujet

[stobie]

Orsino was the only one of those I completely trusted. Grace was just a step down from Petrice, & I was quite ready to kill her. Anders didn't count, because I'd already heard people talking about it - I don't think I would have seen his Deed coming, but I'll never know. Sigh.


I thought Loghain should have been the main villain, (in Origins...) because he had just enough of a point - assuming you delve deeply enough - to make some sense. I never got the Archdemon at all - "So, you're kind of a dragon-god-thing, right?" I had no emotion for it at all. Loghain stirred emotions. To a lesser degree, I feel that way about, say, Petrice & Grace vs Meredith & Orsino. The final villain wasn't someone I actively despised, but early ones - I was furious that *I* didn't get to stab Petrice - and I was a mage!

Modifié par stobie, 15 avril 2011 - 07:50 .

[SavesTheDay]

AlexXIV wrote...
I don't remember him objecting with the Wardens lighting it. Also the signal might have come late. The plan didn't foresee all the darkspawn in the tower so that the Wardens had to fight all the way to the top. I am not saying Loghain is innocent or anything or a nice person. I mean he poisoned the arl, sold elves as slaves, let Howe torture nobles, etc. etc. Question for me is rather if there is anything redeemable about his character. For example whether his intentions were good at least. Or how desperate he was. And I concluded he deserves a second chance at the Landsmeet and never regretted it.

Does anyone remember the dialogue you get when you talk to the guard at the Tower of Ishal before the undergo the Joining? I think if you have a really high cunning score at the point in the game, the guard says something about Loghain knowing about the lower chambers of the tower and only allowing his own guards in. I think also, when you finally do enter the tower, the Warden as a line questioning how the Darkspawn even knew to attack the tower at all.

Edit: But it's been a while since I played Origins, I could be wrong.

Modifié par SavesTheDay, 15 avril 2011 - 08:00 .

[stobie]

I remember that - but I think he said it to all my characters, cunning or not.

And there's also the Howe issue - Howe felt safe killing the Cousland family because he knew what was coming (change of rule) - or at least, that was my interpretation. Cailan was obviously shocked, and the feeling was that Howe had done something crazy, that he couldn't get away with... unless... (ominous music here)

I guess his intention was to keep Ferelden from Going Orlesian again, and a more personal matter of keeping Cailan from dumping/offing Anora.  He believed Cailan was going to go for joint rule or something, right?  What I can't get by is just throwing all those soldiers to death for his own schemes.  Cailan and Duncan aside, he was willing to allow a lot of destruction to stave off an imagined invasion.  

Modifié par stobie, 15 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[spacepopeadventures]

Am I the only one who still thought trusting Grace wasn't a foolish decision at the end of it? You see her in the Gallows in Act II and she's all bitter about having been caught again, and blames you for not helping enough. I assumed that growing bitterness is what leads her to blood magic and causes her to react the way she does in Act III. So yeah, she's vengeful and unreasonable, but I don't think she lied to Hawke at the time.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

AlexXIV wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Loghain was the obvious villain in Ostagar. I mean look at Cailan, Alistair and Duncan. Then look at Uldred and Loghain. I was feeling more sympathetic for Loghain only after several playthroughs and spending alot of time on the BSN. Simply because I started to understand him. And now with DA2 he seems to make even more sense regarding his distrust towards Orlais. Cailan was a fool tbh, and he will go down in history as such. That's why I am now glad to make Alistair King just to prove this point. Because Alistair is at least 10 times the king Cailan was. And Loghain sacrificing Cailan was probably a good thing for all of Ferelden.

Loghain = Prince Behlen who can reach the top shelf.

It's odd then, since in my canon Loghain lives and Bhelen dies. It is never proven to me that Loghain is doing what he is doing for other reasons than being a patriot. His only flaw is that he does not know that the Warden is the main character in a game, which enables the Warden to accomplish the impossible. And that he thinks that Alistair is the same fool as Cailen was. Which is wrong.

You do know that if you keep Loghain alive, he tells you honest-to-god that he had no concrete plan of dealing with the darkspawn after the civil war? His forces would have been stretched too thin...



His extreme xenophobia would have him let Ferelden be destroyed by the darkspawn first instead of dealing with... ORLESIAAAAANS

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 15 avril 2011 - 08:23 .

[Maria Caliban]

stobie wrote...

Orsino was the only one of those I completely trusted.

I don't think Orsino even spoke to me once outside of the two arguments with Meredith that book-ended Act 3.

It didn't help that I knew his name at the beginning of the game, so when I saw a note signed 'O,' I immediately suspected his involvement. At the beginning of Act 3, I expected that the story would be about what was really happening at the Gallows Tower and discovering it was some sort of Hellmouth Meredith was desperately trying to keep from irrupting while Orsino manipulated to take over Kirkwall.

After two Acts of hearing how she was a cruel, tyrannical boogeyman, I wanted there to be more to her than that. :/

[JabbaDaHutt30]

stobie wrote...

Orsino was the only one of those I completely trusted. Grace was just a step down from Petrice, & I was quite ready to kill her. Anders didn't count, because I'd already heard people talking about it - I don't think I would have seen his Deed coming, but I'll never know. Sigh.


I thought Loghain should have been the main villain, (in Origins...) because he had just enough of a point - assuming you delve deeply enough - to make some sense. I never got the Archdemon at all - "So, you're kind of a dragon-god-thing, right?" I had no emotion for it at all. Loghain stirred emotions. To a lesser degree, I feel that way about, say, Petrice & Grace vs Meredith & Orsino. The final villain wasn't someone I actively despised, but early ones - I was furious that *I* didn't get to stab Petrice - and I was a mage!

I wanted to make a thread about how the game wouldn't let me kill Petrice, but I was satisfied a few minutes after the thought popped up.

[Camenae]

My "egads how gullible was I" moment was when I saw EA's marketing that DA2 is a "story that shapes itself around every choice I make" and I believed it.

[ReallyRue]

I believed Anders' potion story, right up until the last conversation of the quest. I really wanted to believe that he and Justice were going to separate. Damn you Anders!

I also believed Isabela about returning the book to the Qunari (although to her credit, she did. Eventually).

One person I never believed was innocent was Gascard DuPuis. I killed him on the first playthrough, and even on the second, when I knew he wasn't the killer, I told that Templar where to find him (after initially sparing him). On the third playthrough I brought him with me to find Quentin, and discovered that my instincts had been correct.

[AlexXIV]

Well Anders surprised me at the end. I didn't think Bioware would make one of their probably most famous characters into a terrorist. Even though only for half a second because the same moment I was shocked I also realized how much sense it makes.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[NvVanity]

Grace I thought was a blood mage but I didn't want to subject her to the Chantry and let her go. Later she messed with Carver. Wasn't happy. Nobody bullies him except me and Varric.

Orsino I truly believed but once I saw him getting mad right before his fight I was thinking something along the lines of "This is going to end, very, very, badly.".

Meredith also seemed genuine in her ideals. Then she pulled out the Lyrium Sword and told us what it was. Then I knew she was crazy.

Also believed in Gascard Du Puis's story about his sister. Took him to fight the serial killer and well it ended badly.

[brightblueink]

Saephy wrote...

I seem to devolve into some sort of gullible, doe-eyed moron who believes everything everyone says as soon as I  start playing a new game by default.

This is me, so much. I actually thought Logain was a Pretty Cool Guy the first time I played DAO. And I didn't even play that game until it'd been out like...a year, so I'd somehow managed to avoid being spoiled on it, too. My brother thought it was hilarious how shocked I was when he abandoned the army.

I didn't see Grace coming when I let her go, either, but when she turned up in the Circle blaming me I was a little suspicious. When I saw that she was part of the conspiracy I was DEFINITELY worried.

I was also lulled into a false sense of security with Bethany. I figured I'd always have her around. By the time I was choosing my party for the Deep Roads expedition, I was debating over it and my brother was watching and said "You might want to take her."

Me: Yeah...I'm debating between her and Anders.
Brother: ...Bethany or Anders? Not both?
Me: Of course, why would I need two mages?
Brother: Um. If it's between Bethany and Anders, take Anders.
Me: Why?
Brother: Just...trust me.

So yeah, I almost got poor Bethany killed. My brother saved me in the nick of time.

Oh, and I totally didn't expect Isabela to ditch me. We didn't have a high enough Friendship since I was DW Rogue and didn't bring her with me much...so off she went.

Oh, and Orsino? Totally thought he was one of the few mage voices of reason. ...Yeeeeaaah. When he mentioned my mother's murderer, I was PISSED.

One of the few I wasn't fooled on was Anders--but that's only because I'd been spoiled on him "blowing up the Chantry" so as soon as he asked me to distract the Mother for him I knew what he was doing. I was briefly swayed by the potion thing, though--I assumed that he was going to TRY to separate them, and in retaliation Vengence would take him over and force his hand. I was on the Friendship path with him, though, so it was very much Anders and Justice working in concert....

tl;dr: I will buy ANYTHING when I'm playing a video game or watching a movie, pretty much...

[TobiTobsen]

The transvestite in the Blooming Rose totally got me.

[Saephy]

What´s all this transvestite-talk?
I´ve clearly not spent enough time in the brothel.

[Alamar2078]

Anders got me. I wasn't thinking about the Salea Petra [Salt Peter]. As for Drakestone I should have caught on but it didn't help that I got it from a little puddle of something that looked like mercury instead of oh say charcoal.

Orosino also got me. I didn't notice the letter to "frankenstein" on my first playthrough signed "O" so never put 2 & 2 together.

[SilentK]

I was so surprised by Isabella leaving, usually you don't have to have a certain lvl of friendship mid-game for followers to stand by you. You can fix it in the end if you have to. That caught me by complete surprise on my first Hawke. Boy was I sad because I really liked her, I just repeatedly keept saying things that she liked and then things that she didn't like so she was middling and not going towards one end. It has been alot of fun watching my husband play his first Hawke, he just got into Act 3. His Hawke romanced Isabella and he was so upset and surprised, almost reloaded because he started to suspect that it was because he had gone for Isabella q first and no Avalines. When she came back he had the biggest smile =)

Can't wait until he get's to the chantry part in the end, watching all the big surprises again when he plays really makes me relive my first game. We'll see if he is less gullible than me when it comes to Anders q, wouldn't surprise me =)

[Rifneno]

AlienZombies wrote...

Glad we're mature enough to keep the transphobia to a minimum.

I know, right?  In a world with demons, dragons, insane wizards who use your blood for fuel, orc darkspawn hordes led by corrupted dragon gods, rapists and slavers around every corner...  surprise penis still ranks the number one horror.  Good to know we keep things in perspective!

spacepopeadventures wrote...

Am I the only one who still thought trusting Grace wasn't a foolish decision at the end of it? You see her in the Gallows in Act II and she's all bitter about having been caught again, and blames you for not helping enough. I assumed that growing bitterness is what leads her to blood magic and causes her to react the way she does in Act III. So yeah, she's vengeful and unreasonable, but I don't think she lied to Hawke at the time.

I'm still not convinced either way actually.  And won't be, barring some new revelation like a dev clarifying it for us or an obscure conversation I don't know about (thanks for cementing Meredith's d-baggery, Ser Karras!).  As you say she "seems" genuine.  Aveline and Fenris say she's corrupted, but I don't even remotely trust either of them in regards to mages.  If she really was evil then, why didn't she help Decimus in battle?  Kind of stupid that she plots this big elaborate revenge scheme because she loved him so much but she didn't love him enough to actually, you know, get off her rear and try to help him survive.  And she gives you her pretty awesome staff.  If she really hated Hawke at the time, why do that?  Sure, the whole "mark of Starkhaven would get me in trouble" thing could be indicating the plan was to implicate Hawke with it... but if that's her plan, why the hell would she tell Hawke that the mark of Starkhaven is trouble?

On the other hand, she seems to have gone bad in only a few years in the Gallows.  That's like record time for even the insanity vortex.  And she's got a tattoo.  I don't remember any other human with a tattoo, and generally anything that makes you stand out either means you're the main character or you're a villain.

[Tinxa]

Anders was definitely one for me.
"Oh sure I'll distract the grand cleric! Something's a bit fishy but I bet it's part of a real nifty Anders companion quest later!" and then boom. I was completely surprised especially since it was year 7 and I was convinced there's some more gameplay left.

The other one was Gascard DuPuis! I completely bought his dead sister story. In the first playthrough I forgot all about him but the second time I remebered he said he would be in Lowtown so I bring him along for revenge only to find out he was the killers apprentice!!!

I also think Grace only got bitter and resentful later so I wasn't surprised in act 3 because she was already acting hostile before that. I think letting her go is the right choice at the time.

[Rifneno]

Tinxa wrote...

Anders was definitely one for me.
"Oh sure I'll distract the grand cleric! Something's a bit fishy but I bet it's part of a real nifty Anders companion quest later!" and then boom.

Pun intended?  

[nightscrawl]

stobie wrote...

I guess his intention was to keep Ferelden from Going Orlesian again, and a more personal matter of keeping Cailan from dumping/offing Anora.  He believed Cailan was going to go for joint rule or something, right?  What I can't get by is just throwing all those soldiers to death for his own schemes.  Cailan and Duncan aside, he was willing to allow a lot of destruction to stave off an imagined invasion.  

I've played DAO several times and I've always killed off Loghain.

Let's just say that his hatred and paranoia concerning Orlais is justified after reading The Stolen Throne. That's not to say that things haven't changed with the new empress, but reading the novel gave me a new perspective.

Alamar2078 wrote...

Anders got me.  I wasn't thinking about the Salea Petra [Salt Peter]. 

Just looked this up... wow I never made the connection, I feel dumb now. haha...

Modifié par nightscrawl, 16 avril 2011 - 02:23 .

[Thiefy]

The only one that got me was Isabella, and I was/am pretty miffed at her backstabbing. The only companion thus far I wish I could have shanked.

[Sabariel]

I let Gascard DuPuis live. I regretted that later.

I also gave coin to Evelina. Regretted that later too.

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 Anders had me hook, line, and sinker though.  I actually did his quest as early as I could because I wanted to see how he acts the rest of the game when he's cured of Justice.

This is exactly what I was thinking too. Although knowing what I do now, replaying the quest is sort of amusing. When Anders says "Just mix it up and boom... Justice and I are separated", I actually laughed out loud.

Oh Anders, you crack me up. What will you think of next?

You know, in Awakening, my Warden told Anders that mages should take more drastic measures to be free of the Circle and he disagreed with me. I kinda hope I can meet him again as the Warden, just so I can say "Well I hate to say I told you so, but..."

Indeed.  You could say..Hey Warden, I blew up a Sunday school and the entire Mages Circle in Kirkwall got slaughtered.  I feel really awesome about myself.  Now that we're free, I'm going to go play electric vibro fingers in the local brothel.  A bunch of other mages are going to reinstate slavery and take over Kirkwall.  One of them is possessed and has this 'world domination' bug up his butt.  Oh well.  As long as the mages are free, F**K everybody else.  Maybe later we can go by the Dalish quarter and burn a few elves.  That could be fun.  Check you later Warden!  FREEEDOM!

[Rifneno]

dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 Anders had me hook, line, and sinker though.  I actually did his quest as early as I could because I wanted to see how he acts the rest of the game when he's cured of Justice.

This is exactly what I was thinking too. Although knowing what I do now, replaying the quest is sort of amusing. When Anders says "Just mix it up and boom... Justice and I are separated", I actually laughed out loud.

Oh Anders, you crack me up. What will you think of next?

You know, in Awakening, my Warden told Anders that mages should take more drastic measures to be free of the Circle and he disagreed with me. I kinda hope I can meet him again as the Warden, just so I can say "Well I hate to say I told you so, but..."

Indeed.  You could say..Hey Warden, I blew up a Sunday school and the entire Mages Circle in Kirkwall got slaughtered.  I feel really awesome about myself.  Now that we're free, I'm going to go play electric vibro fingers in the local brothel.  A bunch of other mages are going to reinstate slavery and take over Kirkwall.  One of them is possessed and has this 'world domination' bug up his butt.  Oh well.  As long as the mages are free, F**K everybody else.  Maybe later we can go by the Dalish quarter and burn a few elves.  That could be fun.  Check you later Warden!  FREEEDOM!

Can't we have one thread that doesn't turn into Act III raging?  

[aaniadyen]

In my first play through Anders took me by complete surprise. Mostly because that iteration of my character didn't like him much and didn't even bother helping him. I'm kinda glad too, because it made it that much more shocking when it did happen. Hawke didn't pay attention to his character, so this happened and it basically blind sided him. Was actually a really awesome part of the story because I had no indication anything was gonna happen. I caught most of the other things. I figured Grace would turn to blood magic because frankly, she was never stable once when you talked to her and she clearly stated a grudge against you. Kinda hard to miss. I knew isabella would betray us at one point, just wasn't sure when. I was waiting for it the whole game and when that decision came up I was just thinking "Yep, this is it." Didn't have enough friendship points with her, so sadly she never returned. I had a very sad ending with that character. Ended the game with only 5 companions. I never picked up Fenris because i was trying to roleplay and my character wouldn't smuggle lyrium, so I ended up doing every single quest in that chapter -except- the one where you got Fenris.