128 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...


You mean people think Meredith animated them herself?

Yes, that's what I think.

Filament wrote...

I'd like to think they were deactivated war machines to begin with.

The Gate Guardians I can understand but I don't think the slave statues were.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 avril 2011 - 04:40 .

[AlexXIV]

Herr Uhl wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

A golem can move by definition, it is the point. A statue is a statue.

A golem could be made with metal, and would make a lot more sense than a hunk of bronze suddenly coming alive.

Because we're totally sure that those statues were just solid hunks of bronze from the beginning, right? Not like the place was used by ancient tevinter magisters to do all sorts of wacky magical stuff or anything.

That is still an asspull of huge proportions. If they had some more hints towards their nature in the game, I'd be more ok with it. Now it is just statues that start moving. And did I say that they weren't golems, your post seemed to indicate that any statue becoming animated makes as much sense as a golem.

To have something make sense you need to be able to figure it out before it happens. Or should I presuppose that the tiles in the streets will start hovering and attack me as well?

I have to agree with Herr Uhl. Golems are forged on the anvil of the void and require some people to sacrifice and let their souls be put into the golem to animate it. On the other hand we could reason that the statues actually had souls in them, just were frozen until Meredith released them. So the idol worked like a golem control rod. Or it was some new magic trick. A wizard lyrium idol did it?

[Avissel]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Lyrium idol = Vigo's mood slime.
Tevinter slave statues = Statue of Liberty torch attack 

So Meredith was Janosz?

Which makes Hawke...what Egon?

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
To have something make sense you need to be able to figure it out before it happens. Or should I presuppose that the tiles in the streets will start hovering and attack me as well?

Well didn't a vase attack you in Bartrand's estate?

It is possible that it was a vasegolem.

I put that down to trickster spirits as the veil was thin. Same as the odd apparition of the golem.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Same as the odd apparition of the golem.

Again, lame anti-climactic boss fight. A perfect waste of an opportunity to explain what the idol is.

[hoorayforicecream]

AlexXIV wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

A golem can move by definition, it is the point. A statue is a statue.

A golem could be made with metal, and would make a lot more sense than a hunk of bronze suddenly coming alive.

Because we're totally sure that those statues were just solid hunks of bronze from the beginning, right? Not like the place was used by ancient tevinter magisters to do all sorts of wacky magical stuff or anything.

That is still an asspull of huge proportions. If they had some more hints towards their nature in the game, I'd be more ok with it. Now it is just statues that start moving. And did I say that they weren't golems, your post seemed to indicate that any statue becoming animated makes as much sense as a golem.

To have something make sense you need to be able to figure it out before it happens. Or should I presuppose that the tiles in the streets will start hovering and attack me as well?

I have to agree with Herr Uhl. Golems are forged on the anvil of the void and require some people to sacrifice and let their souls be put into the golem to animate it. On the other hand we could reason that the statues actually had souls in them, just were frozen until Meredith released them. So the idol worked like a golem control rod. Or it was some new magic trick. A wizard lyrium idol did it?

There is clearly only one way to magically animate statues. To think otherwise would be preposterous.

[Cutlass Jack]

AlexXIV wrote...

I have to agree with Herr Uhl. Golems are forged on the anvil of the void and require some people to sacrifice and let their souls be put into the golem to animate it. On the other hand we could reason that the statues actually had souls in them, just were frozen until Meredith released them. So the idol worked like a golem control rod. Or it was some new magic trick. A wizard lyrium idol did it?

Dwarven golems were forged on the Anvil of the Void. The Tevinters were golem experts without them. Which was why Shale traveled to the Tevinter Imperium to get restored. The Tevinters are also the leading practioners of Blood Magic and had an entire prison full of slaves to use as test subjects.

So I don't see the above as being a stretch. But a piece of the idol was also previously shown as animating objects and conjuring that golemy thing during Varric's quest. And there were those other golemy things in the dungeon where you found the full idol.

[Avissel]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

There is clearly only one way to magically animate statues. To think otherwise would be preposterous.

Exactly. As we all know, Chapter 3, sub-section six of  "The things magic can and cannot do." Clearly covers this issue.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Gate Guardians I can understand but I don't think the slave statues were.

Maybe they were some sort of psychological warfare -- easier to pacify all these elves when even what seems like figures of their own brethren turn against them. Or something.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'd like to think they were deactivated war machines to begin with.

The Gate Guardians I can understand but I don't think the slave statues were.

They might be if they were part of the war machine's system.
As in, each guardian golem comes with x amount of lesser golems (the slaves) to protect it. They're modelled like slaves because Tevinter.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If Tevinter can animate statues, you'd think they'd use them for manual labor.

[tmp7704]

Elves are probably cheaper.

[Herr Uhl]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Dwarven golems were forged on the Anvil of the Void. The Tevinters were golem experts without them. Which was why Shale traveled to the Tevinter Imperium to get restored. The Tevinters are also the leading practioners of Blood Magic and had an entire prison full of slaves to use as test subjects.

So I don't see the above as being a stretch. But a piece of the idol was also previously shown as animating objects and conjuring that golemy thing during Varric's quest. And there were those other golemy things in the dungeon where you found the full idol.

I would be ok with it if there were some way to hint it, a dungeon under Tevinter where we fight a similar golem or something as that. Foreshadowing is a good thing.

As it is I don't get the "oh, I should have seen it coming" feeling, more of a "well, that happened".

[Maria Caliban]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Tevinters were golem experts without them.

The Tevinter golems are gifts from the dwarves.

[The Angry One]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If Tevinter can animate statues, you'd think they'd use them for manual labor.

Assuming it isn't hideously expensive and requires a lot of blood magic or lyrium.
Given that the sword is pure concentrated EVIL lyrium it could've been as simple as providing a power source.

[hoorayforicecream]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If Tevinter can animate statues, you'd think they'd use them for manual labor.

If the statues are powered by the blood of slaves, I'd probably stick with the slaves for the smaller stuff. Hard to put the blood back once you've taken it out, and all.

tmp7704 wrote...

Elves are probably cheaper.

Don't forget the slaves, too.

[Kimberly Shaw]

This was simply a game design decision for the end boss. I pretend it is a lyirum idol induced halucination (just like Meredith flying around like Pokemon) rather than actually part of the game lore. The boss battles were both rather ridiculous looking and uninspiring and had me go "WTF, did that just happen?" and not in the good way about 17 times.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...


You mean people think Meredith animated them herself?

Yes, that's what I think.

*is an ass* D:

Filament wrote...

I'd like to think they were deactivated war machines to begin with.

The Gate Guardians I can understand but I don't think the slave statues were.

A wizard-hunter did it.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 15 avril 2011 - 05:03 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...

Elves are probably cheaper.

Statues don't happen to revolt either.

Tongue in cheek

[Rockpopple]

Man people, stop being prudes. I know this is High Fantasy, but it's okay to let your hair down once in a while.

The statues were cool! Yeah, even I "wtf'd" several times during that fight, but it was fun and it was a huge spectacle! And Meredith turning all SSJ on us? Hell yeah I was like "WTFISTHISDRAGONAGE?" but at the same time, it was awesome. Again it was a spectacle. It was theatre. It was fun to watch.

No it was traditionally High Fantasy fare, but I think a little swagger is what any good genre needs once in a while.

[tmp7704]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Don't forget the slaves, too.

Yeah i meant cheaper rather than free because there's still some expenses in catching them, ferrying them around and maintaining overseers, etc.

(plus, saying slaves are free... well)

Modifié par tmp7704, 15 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[The Angry One]

Rockpopple wrote...

Man people, stop being prudes. I know this is High Fantasy, but it's okay to let your hair down once in a while.

The statues were cool! Yeah, even I "wtf'd" several times during that fight, but it was fun and it was a huge spectacle! And Meredith turning all SSJ on us? Hell yeah I was like "WTFISTHISDRAGONAGE?" but at the same time, it was awesome. Again it was a spectacle. It was theatre. It was fun to watch.

No it was traditionally High Fantasy fare, but I think a little swagger is what any good genre needs once in a while.

My problem is not that they exist, but rather that they come out of nowhere with no foreshadowing or reason because EPIC BOSS BATTLE.
I don't care if pink unicorns appear as long as it feels natural in the story.

[tmp7704]

The Angry One wrote...

My problem is not that they exist, but rather that they come out of nowhere with no foreshadowing or reason because EPIC BOSS BATTLE.
I don't care if pink unicorns appear as long as it feels natural in the story.

I accidentally spoiled myself beforehand that the statues are going to start moving at some point so given that i probably have skewed reaction to it... but i didn't really mind it wasn't hinted anywhere. Maybe it actually made it better, overall. It was pretty cool and i guess having them sit there from the start kinda helped.

[Maria Caliban]

The Angry One wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'd like to think they were deactivated war machines to begin with.

The Gate Guardians I can understand but I don't think the slave statues were.

They might be if they were part of the war machine's system.
As in, each guardian golem comes with x amount of lesser golems (the slaves) to protect it. They're modelled like slaves because Tevinter.

Yeah, let's study this.

The Tevinter have a set of metal war statues and they stick them in the Gallows. The Gallows being where they executed slaves, not where they held them en mass or had them work, and the Gallows not being a location an enemy would likely attack if they wanted to take Kirkwall.

In the several centuries since the Circle's placement in the Gallows, none of the mages there have gone 'Holy ****, I could animate these statues and totally wipe out the Templars holding me here!' But, Meredith, the Templar Knight-Commander knows that there are these war statues waiting there.

The key to animating these war statues is not a spell or even a Tevinter artifact, but an idol from a thaig that doesn't appear to have touched by the Tevinter and that predates the dwarven Memories.

And Meredith knows that this idol that's come into her possess by chance happens to be the key to unlocking the war machines that she (and apparently only she) happens to know about and that happen to be right at her base of power.

OR

The idol allows its user to animate objects and Meredith takes advantage of the giant statues in the area.