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[Rockpopple]

Filament wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...
And Meredith turning all SSJ on us? Hell yeah I was like "WTFISTHISDRAGONAGE?" but at the same time, it was awesome.

I didn't find it awesome.

Well played, good sir. Well played.

[Danjaru]

The McGuffin did a Deus Ex Machina.. Thought it was obvious.

[Maria Caliban]

That wasn't a deus ex machina.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'd like to think they were deactivated war machines to begin with.

The Gate Guardians I can understand but I don't think the slave statues were.

They might be if they were part of the war machine's system.
As in, each guardian golem comes with x amount of lesser golems (the slaves) to protect it. They're modelled like slaves because Tevinter.

Yeah, let's study this.

The Tevinter have a set of metal war statues and they stick them in the Gallows. The Gallows being where they executed slaves, not where they held them en mass or had them work, and the Gallows not being a location an enemy would likely attack if they wanted to take Kirkwall.

In the several centuries since the Circle's placement in the Gallows, none of the mages there have gone 'Holy ****, I could animate these statues and totally wipe out the Templars holding me here!' But, Meredith, the Templar Knight-Commander knows that there are these war statues waiting there.

The key to animating these war statues is not a spell or even a Tevinter artifact, but an idol from a thaig that doesn't appear to have touched by the Tevinter and that predates the dwarven Memories.

And Meredith knows that this idol that's come into her possess by chance happens to be the key to unlocking the war machines that she (and apparently only she) happens to know about and that happen to be right at her base of power.

OR

The idol allows its user to animate objects and Meredith takes advantage of the giant statues in the area.

And you'd honestly be surprised if DA2 took the first option?
Besides the last two factors are unecesarry if we assume that the idol/sword is just a power source that happened to reanimate the statues, if they normally require huge amounts of lyrium for instance.
The rest just hinges on everybody in Kirkwall being stupid.. which is pretty much a given.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

And Meredith knows that this idol that's come into her possess by chance happens to be the key to unlocking the war machines that she (and apparently only she) happens to know about and that happen to be right at her base of power.

OR

The idol allows its user to animate objects and Meredith takes advantage of the giant statues in the area.

I don't think she actually knew that's going to happen. She's just yelling for the Maker to give her strength. And she keeps yelling that to the end, even long after all statues are done.

Modifié par tmp7704, 15 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yeah, let's study this.

The Tevinter have a set of metal war statues and they stick them in the Gallows. The Gallows being where they executed slaves, not where they held them en mass or had them work, and the Gallows not being a location an enemy would likely attack if they wanted to take Kirkwall.

In the several centuries since the Circle's placement in the Gallows, none of the mages there have gone 'Holy ****, I could animate these statues and totally wipe out the Templars holding me here!' But, Meredith, the Templar Knight-Commander knows that there are these war statues waiting there.

The key to animating these war statues is not a spell or even a Tevinter artifact, but an idol from a thaig that doesn't appear to have touched by the Tevinter and that predates the dwarven Memories.

And Meredith knows that this idol that's come into her possess by chance happens to be the key to unlocking the war machines that she (and apparently only she) happens to know about and that happen to be right at her base of power.

OR

The idol allows its user to animate objects and Meredith takes advantage of the giant statues in the area.

I thought about it a bit. Animating objects? Sure, that could totally work. Gallows being where they executed slaves? Well, you've got a bunch of people dying and bleeding all over the place, seems like a pretty big waste of magic. Why not do something fun with it, like powering giant ancient death machines?

As for why the mages of the circle never finding out:  Ever try using AA batteries to start a car?

Anyway, it's not an implausible solution. In a world where demons crawl out of nowhere, people shoot lightning from their hands, and animated statues made of rock drop 32 silver coins and a pair of torn trousers, I didn't really have a hard time suspending the disbelief that some other slightly different statues could start trying to kick my ass.

Edit:

Maria Caliban wrote...

That wasn't a deus ex machina.

Something about it made me think Diabolus Ex Vacuus.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 15 avril 2011 - 05:23 .

[Maria Caliban]

The Angry One wrote...

And you'd honestly be surprised if DA2 took the first option?

Point.

Besides the last two factors are unecesarry if we assume that the idol/sword is just a power source that happened to reanimate the statues, if they normally require huge amounts of lyrium for instance.

The rest just hinges on everybody in Kirkwall being stupid.. which is pretty much a given.

I'm willing to concede it's a possibility. I don't see it as being any better than 'the idol can make statues spring to life' though and it's far more cumbersome.

Worse, it means that there's another group of background information that should have at least been hinted at. I mean, a single codex entry about the Tevinter having their own war statues would be appreciated.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 avril 2011 - 05:31 .

[AlexXIV]

If the Tevinters had a better option to make golems than sacrificing people, why would the dwarves not do that? I mean they were in first line used to fight blights. Wouldn't an army of golems spare alot of people from dying or becomming blighters?

[tmp7704]

For what's worth, how do we know the statues coming to life wasn't actually the Maker giving her _very_ dedicated servant some support... until the stress sucked her dry.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm willing to concede it's a possibility. I don't see it as being any better than 'the idol can make statues spring to life' though and it's far more cumbersome.

Well to me it feels a little less arbitrary.
I also like the ancient dormant weapon trope.

Worse, it means that there's another group of background information that should have at least been hinted at. I mean, a single codex entry about the Tevinter having their own war statues would be appreciated.

I agree with this.
But overall lack of proper foreshadowing (aside from Varric going "oh we didn't know THAT would happen later") seems to be one of the failures of DA2.

[tmp7704]

AlexXIV wrote...

If the Tevinters had a better option to make golems than sacrificing people, why would the dwarves not do that? I mean they were in first line used to fight blights. Wouldn't an army of golems spare alot of people from dying or becomming blighters?

Tevinters weren't obliged to share that technology, if they had it. In fact, with the advantage it could provide that's something you'd expect to be closely guarded secret.

[hoorayforicecream]

AlexXIV wrote...

If the Tevinters had a better option to make golems than sacrificing people, why would the dwarves not do that? I mean they were in first line used to fight blights. Wouldn't an army of golems spare alot of people from dying or becomming blighters?

Maybe because the dwarves can't use magic? Besides, who said that it didn't involve sacrificing people? The tevinters love sacrificing people more than just about anything.

[The Angry One]

AlexXIV wrote...

If the Tevinters had a better option to make golems than sacrificing people, why would the dwarves not do that? I mean they were in first line used to fight blights. Wouldn't an army of golems spare alot of people from dying or becomming blighters?

Dwarven golems can operate continuously.
If, say, Tevinter golems need lots of lyrium or blood to work then they'd be a lot less efficient.

[Danjaru]

Maria Caliban wrote...

That wasn't a deus ex machina.

Kind of was.

A complete cop out to give Meredith a bigger chance in the battle. Without indication of such power, she became a Super Saiyan and made statues come alive.

[AlexXIV]

The Angry One wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

If the Tevinters had a better option to make golems than sacrificing people, why would the dwarves not do that? I mean they were in first line used to fight blights. Wouldn't an army of golems spare alot of people from dying or becomming blighters?

Dwarven golems can operate continuously.
If, say, Tevinter golems need lots of lyrium or blood to work then they'd be a lot less efficient.

Well then Merdith probably powerd it with her life force or blood or something?

I also deem we are talking about 'magic' here that has not been explained anywhere in the DA universe so far.

[Cutlass Jack]

The Angry One wrote...

Dwarven golems can operate continuously.
If, say, Tevinter golems need lots of lyrium or blood to work then they'd be a lot less efficient.

If only we had some Bloody Lyrium....Oh wait!

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The tevinters love sacrificing people more than just about anything.

Do they love it more than ice cream? Than cupcakes?

[Giltspur]

It's possible that the red lyrium in her sword was the key component to the animation of the statues.

Now I'm not sure it makes sense to think of statues being able to move if they haven't been crafted to move, but I'm willing to ignore it or give it the benefit of the doubt if it turns out to be related to the idol or red lyrium in a way that mostly makes sense.

[Cutlass Jack]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The tevinters love sacrificing people more than just about anything.

Do they love it more than ice cream? Than cupcakes?

More than Cookies. Which is why the Qunari are their mortal enemies.

[The Angry One]

AlexXIV wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

If the Tevinters had a better option to make golems than sacrificing people, why would the dwarves not do that? I mean they were in first line used to fight blights. Wouldn't an army of golems spare alot of people from dying or becomming blighters?

Dwarven golems can operate continuously.
If, say, Tevinter golems need lots of lyrium or blood to work then they'd be a lot less efficient.

Well then Merdith probably powerd it with her life force or blood or something?

I also deem we are talking about 'magic' here that has not been explained anywhere in the DA universe so far.

Like I've said, it could be that the sword, being pure lyrium of a type that's different to normal lyrium could've acted as a power source.

[AlexXIV]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The tevinters love sacrificing people more than just about anything.

Do they love it more than ice cream? Than cupcakes?

They like vanilla ice cream more, but there is always an exception to any rule.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The tevinters love sacrificing people more than just about anything.

Do they love it more than ice cream? Than cupcakes?

I hear Hadriana liked cupcakes more than sacrificing. That's why the other Magisters laughed at her.

[AlexXIV]

Still would kind of suggest that Meridith was either possessed or had a deal with a demon or something. Because how could she know how to use it etc. without someone telling her?