37 réponses à ce sujet

[IN1]

 All right, first of all, the idea is approved by Luke. He will also forward the suggestions to Peter Thomas. Chances are, the changes won't make it into the official patches, but we will have a Community Item Balance Patch endorsed by Bioware.

To gain the official endorsement, we should make the list reasonably short, and the changes as justified, and easy to implement, as possible. Who knows, maybe some of the changes proposed will even make their way into official patches? The design team will be made aware of them, anyway.

An example I consider justified and easy to implement:
There is a lower-level unique Act I shortbow, Trepanner's Gift. It has a nice property: +12% spirit damage. Why?! I mean, it is a physical bow, and rogues have absolutely no means of inflicting spirit damage through talents. Spirit Runes, you say? It has no rune slots, either. The solution is obvious: make it spirit. Will it make it unbalanced? Hardly. Viable for those who want to go all elemental early into the game -- yes, maybe, but not for the entire game, given its pitiful base damage. Combined with a fact archers get only 1 elemental weapon as opposed to 4 two-handers get, and 3 both one-handers and dual-wieleders do, I think we have a justified case here. 

Naturally, I'm looking for suggestions coming from experienced mage players. I've heard numerous times from rumination and others staff itemization is flawed. Please do elaborate.

Modifié par IN1, 15 avril 2011 - 05:41 .

[naughty99]

I have encountered a number of staves that also provide the wrong damage bonus (spirit staff gives fire bonus, etc.).

It seems to be randomly generated loot, however, nothing unique that I've noticed.

[carale19]

The Sundering 2h maul has a similar issue. The weapon changes damage type from physical to lightning, while buffing physical damage at the same time. I'm not sure if this is intended, or if the weapon still benefits from the stat in someway, but it seems a bit off.

[IN1]

carale19 wrote...

The Sundering 2h maul has a similar issue. The weapon changes damage type from physical to lightning, while buffing physical damage at the same time. I'm not sure if this is intended, or if the weapon still benefits from the stat in someway, but it seems a bit off.

Good point. It won't affect your damage output, since no warrior abilities are independent of weapon damage type. Overlooked this one.

[aethernox]

The problem with staff itemization is that only one or two of the unique staves are actually usable end-game. Level 24+ staves do 48+ damage, but aside from the over-priced and nigh-worthless Final Thought, almost none of the top-tier staves do more than 42 damage, which would be accurate... if the game ended at level 20. Because of each mage's reliance upon multiple staves of differing elements, more often than not an optimal set up is made up of runeless, randomized staves that you have to scum drops for.

The Torch of Falon-Din is the only end-game staff that is actually usable, and it still has the under-leveled base damage problem. This is offset by the +%fire mod, and the two rune slots, but there aren't any other staves that compare. Compare to Bloom. What I'm trying to point out, is that even the best end-game mage staff is underpowered. Every other unique staff of every other (non-physical) element is out-classed by random end-game drops, and it isn't a slow process.

So, now that I've established that mages have a reliance on randomly generated gear, I must point out that very few of the random staff enchantments are worthwhile. All of the +mana enchantments go to waste on Blood Mages, and I'm under the impression that BM is one of the most popular specializations. All of the +mana regen enchantments go to waste on nearly everyone, since the regen mechanic is fairly underpowered. All of the +%elemental bonuses are actually +%fire, which means that they're useless on everything but fire staves... who are all out-classed by the torch. Improved Blood Magic staves have to be shopped, not dropped, as well.

Let's just say that the system is a tiny bit flawed.

[carale19]

IN1 wrote...


Good point. It won't affect your damage output, since no warrior abilities are independent of weapon damage type. Overlooked this one.

I figured as much, just thought it seemed out of place in my first play through.  I'm sure I noticed other items with little faults like this, lemme think...

A couple 1handers, whose names I'm forgetting.  Myriad staves, but those are easily forgiveable seeing as mages have access to pretty much every elemental damage type save nature, unless it's Merrill of course.

I'll drop in with any others as they come to me.

[naughty99]

aethernox wrote...

 Every other unique staff of every other (non-physical) element is out-classed by random end-game drops, and it isn't a slow process.

Especially if you are wearing one or more "enemies drop better equipment" items.

aethernox wrote...
All of the +%elemental bonuses are actually +%fire,

Can you elaborate on this? I have found many staves with +%spirit damage, etc. - does this mean that they are bugged?

Modifié par naughty99, 15 avril 2011 - 06:03 .

[aethernox]

I don't recall if +%spirit actually drops. I know that you can find it in shops and set drops, but I'm not sure about random drops.

Even if that is the case, though, does +%spirit affect anything but Spirit Bolt (which is hopelessly underpowered) and Walking Bomb (which already does damage that scales with difficulty/enemy HP, thus making a great deal of +%spirit go to waste)? It would be useful on a spirit staff, but rarely elsewhere. +% electricity, cold, and nature still don't drop.

[IN1]

aethernox wrote...

I don't recall if +%spirit actually drops. I know that you can find it in shops and set drops, but I'm not sure about random drops.

Even if that is the case, though, does +%spirit affect anything but Spirit Bolt (which is hopelessly underpowered) and Walking Bomb (which already does damage that scales with difficulty/enemy HP, thus making a great deal of +%spirit go to waste)? It would be useful on a spirit staff, but rarely elsewhere. +% electricity, cold, and nature still don't drop.

+Nature, cold and spirit are shoppable. Walking Bomb is unaffected by +spirit. +Spirit is great for a warrior, of course.

[aethernox]

I know that the bonuses are shoppable, but can you shop them on randomly generated staves of the same element? I don't recall which vendors sell level-appropriate mage weapons, or if those vendors also happen to sell +%damage of the same element.

[naughty99]

aethernox wrote...

I don't recall if +%spirit actually drops. I know that you can find it in shops and set drops, but I'm not sure about random drops.

Even if that is the case, though, does +%spirit affect anything but Spirit Bolt (which is hopelessly underpowered) and Walking Bomb (which already does damage that scales with difficulty/enemy HP, thus making a great deal of +%spirit go to waste)? It would be useful on a spirit staff, but rarely elsewhere. +% electricity, cold, and nature still don't drop.

I can confirm I've received +14% spirit bonus on staves from random drops during Act 2. 

Doesn't it improve spells like:
Horror
Death Cloud
Hemorrage
Grave Robber/One Foot In

If it doesn't improve walking bomb, IMO it certainly should.

Have not seen any %electricity, +%cold or +%nature, but this is my first mage playthrough, will keep an eye out. (I'm using 2 "enemies drop better equipment" items.)

[aethernox]

Hemorrhage is physical, and I don't know how/if One Foot In even functions.
Horror is a good point, and Death Cloud is probably fair, too, but I don't think it's worth taking the entire Entropy tree.

[IN1]

Guys, don't get me wrong -- I know you all are competent players that can discuss mechanics for hours, but let's keep this thread to the point, all right? I'm looking for specific suggestions for specific weapons/items in the following format: item; current problem; solution proposed + justification.

[naughty99]

Not sure about the scope of the proposed mod, but does it make sense to include a fix for random weapons to have the bonus match the item damage? (i.e., no random dropped cold staves with %fire bonus)

[Nasabe]

The Final Thought - Act III Staff (Black Emporium)

48 physical dmg

+4 magic
+104 mana
+33% nature damage
+33% spirit damage
5% chance to regenerate 9% mana

It has a single rune slot.

Now unless one adds a Nature rune there are actually no nature-based spells for Hawke. For being worth 100+ gold and one of the most powerful weapons at end-game it seems the staff is designed for Merrill only, since she is the only mage who can cast Nature-based spells.

I would suggest to replace the + nature% with any other element.

[Waltzingbear]

I think that an armor rune that provides knockback immunity would be nice.
Although it could produce some balancing issues because it doesn't scale like armor value and can possibly eliminate an intended mechanism by the developers.
Choosing between extra armor or resistance and knockback immunity for companions seems like a valid consideration, but it might sound better in theory than it would be implemented ingame.

Just a thought..

[naughty99]

I second Nasabe's request - replacing the nature bonus with physical would be ideal for Final Thought (especially considering the price)

[IN1]

How about changing Final Thought to nature base dmg? It would have been a great staff fot Merrill, you know...

[naughty99]

IN1 wrote...

How about changing Final Thought to nature base dmg? It would have been a great staff fot Merrill, you know...

Even better! 

Might be a little bit OP, but hey, it is one of the most expensive items in this game.

Modifié par naughty99, 15 avril 2011 - 07:17 .

[IN1]

naughty99 wrote...

IN1 wrote...

How about changing Final Thought to nature base dmg? It would have been a great staff fot Merrill, you know...

Even better!

Also, there are no unique nature staves now. Well, there is Sylvan's Heart, that I think is unobtainable in-game, and there is Bethany's Act III staff, but that does not really count.  

[Nasabe]

IN1 wrote...

How about changing Final Thought to nature base dmg? It would have been a great staff fot Merrill, you know...

That does work too imo. But I'm guessing if an avarage rpg player is going to spend almost half of his fortune to a single item s/he would want to use it with her/his own character.

Say, if that staff dropped from a boss in a Merill-companion-quest I wouldn't say it requires a change, but it is a shop item. So.. you can actually make the keeper drop that staff (final Merrill quest) instead of Torch of Falon'din. Swap their stats and make the shop item available for a bit cheaper? meh i don't know.

Oh and if I'm not mistaken that staff might have the highest auto-attack dmg for mages. So nature dmg, and +33% might tip the balance with the already awesome bonuses it provides.

Modifié par Nasabe, 15 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[aethernox]

The Final Thought; over-priced, lack of synergy; change damage type to spirit or nature AND/OR change +%nature to +%physical.

As Nasabe pointed out, the only character who can get any reasonable amount of use out of it is Merrill, whose nature damage is weak and who honestly has better things to do than get/cast Spirit Bolt. Additionally, she is a blood mage, so the otherwise astounding +104 mana does nothing. Changing the weapon's element to Nature/Spirit would at least make it usable for Hawke, while retaining its vague usefulness for Merrill, but changing the +%nature to +%physical actually makes it a great Hawke weapon, well worth the 140 gold.

Modifié par aethernox, 15 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[Sabotin]

Sataareth 1 handed sword also has +physical, when the base damage is fire.

[IN1]

Sabotin wrote...

Sataareth 1 handed sword also has +physical, when the base damage is fire.

Well... Putting +fire on Sataareth will make it ridiculously over-powered, since even now you can reach +112% fire damage with an S&S elemental warrior. 

[Sabotin]

It could be turned to some other stat then or a static +dmg bonus. Or just removed.