37 réponses à ce sujet

[naughty99]

aethernox wrote...

The Final Thought; over-priced, lack of synergy; change damage type to spirit or nature AND/OR change +%nature to +%physical.

As Nasabe pointed out, the only character who can get any reasonable amount of use out of it is Merrill, whose nature damage is weak and who honestly has better things to do than get/cast Spirit Bolt. Additionally, she is a blood mage, so the otherwise astounding +104 mana does nothing. Changing the weapon's element to Nature/Spirit would at least make it usable for Hawke, while retaining its vague usefulness for Merrill, but changing the +%nature to +%physical actually makes it a great Hawke weapon, well worth the 140 gold.

I suppose keeping the base damage physical keeps it somewhat in line with the original intent of the designers, and 33% physical bonus will make a big difference for merril or any mage who uses it with all the Primal, Force and Blood Mage spells that cause physical damage.

As I see it now, it is so expensive that you must choose between buying it or one of the other pricey items, such as the knockback ring, etc. If the Final Thought stats were improved, it would help improve game balance because then the player will need to consider more carefully which item to buy. (Final thought would be as attractive as the knockback ring, cold blooded, etc.)

I would suggest either of the following alternatives:

The Final Thought - Act III Staff (Black Emporium)

48 physical dmg

+4 magic 
+104 mana 
+33% naturephysical damage 
+33% spirit damage 
5% chance to regenerate 9% mana 
1 rune slot
2 rune slots

OR

The Final Thought - Act III Staff (Black Emporium)

48 physical nature (or spirit) dmg

+4 magic 
+104 mana 
+1 point for Blood Magic
+33% nature damage 
+33% spirit(or other elemental) damage 
5% chance to regenerate 9% mana 
1 rune slots
2 rune slots

Modifié par naughty99, 15 avril 2011 - 08:07 .

[aethernox]

Those are both excellent suggestions, though I'm not sure if the second runeslot pushes the first suggestion a bit too far. Though, to be fair, there aren't any especially important mage runes aside from Devastation, and that can only be placed once.

I have a question, though. IN1, in your description of the mechanics in various places, you referred to "attack speed" as "animation speed." This, and a few other comments, have led me to believe that +%attack speed also increases casting speed, but I have been too lazy to test it (even though haste makes it super easy). Is this so?

[rumination888]

If you remove your weapon, your characters will default to a base weapon. The base DPS for 1H, 2H, and staffs are all very similar. Bows have slightly more than double that DPS, and daggers(two of them) deal approximately ~25% more than bows.

You can see this item balance occur with promo items, Black Emporium items, and the Baasrath-Kata(Qunari Sword quest) weapons in Act 3

From the above we can get a sense of how BioWare balanced the classes in relation to items of equivelent levels.

---

There are other problems with staffs than just levels, but instead of writing a boring essay about game design, lets get right down to itemization suggestions.

The following takes into account where you recieve the weapon, the enemy types you could be facing in the future, various mage builds, and the possibility of using 3 mages in a party. It does not take into account DLC, nor unique red/white items.

Valdasine(reward for killing the Ancient Rock Wraith at the very end of Act 1)
-Base spirit damage changes to electric damage
-DPS increases from 35 to ~43(equivelent to Oath-Breaker, unique 2H gained earlier in the Deep Roads)
-Magic requirement increases to 30

Sketch's Resplit-Staff(reward for saving Sketch in Act 2)
-Base fire damage changes to electric damage
-DPS increases from 30 to ~46(equivelent to Brother's End, unique 2H)
-Extra physical damage changes to bonus electric percent
-Magic requirement increases to 31

Acolyte's Staff(despite the generic name, its a unique staff bought from the apparel merchant at Hightown during Act 2)
-Base physical damage changes to fire damage

Enchanter's Staff(generic name, but unique staff. Its bought from the apparal merchant in Lowtown during Act 2)
-Base physical damage changes to cold damage
-DPS increases from 42 to 45(equivelent to Acolyte's Staff mentioned above)
-Bonus spirit percent changes to critical damage percent
*A staff suitable for crit mages if you use a rune of striking

Cold-Blooded(bought from Magnus Wares in Act 2 for a ridiculous ~115g... a price you'd typically find in an Act 3 vendor)
-DPS increases from 50 to 57(equivelent of a beginning Act 3 weapon)
-mana regen changes to 1 rune slot
-Magic requirement increases to 39

Voracity(reward for killing Xebenkek)
-Base fire damage changes to spirit damage
-Extra fire damage changes to bonus spirit percent
-Magic requirement increases to 38
*if you don't buy a single staff in Act 2, then mages get horribly shafted during the last part of Act 2. The changes to Voracity aim to alleviate the problem.(as well as give spirit mages a nice upgrade in Act 2, even usable throughout Act 3) Qunari aren't weak to spirit, mind you. I'd prefer not to change the damage type to nature or cold in order to preserve the overall balance

Mutiny(bought from merchant at the Gallows in Act 3)
-DPS increases from 50 to 57
-Attack changes to health to mana conversion
-Magic requirement increases to 39
*this is the poor-man's Cold-Blooded staff

Torch of Falon'Din(reward for completing Merril's quest in Act 3)
-DPS increases from 57 to 62
-Magic requirement increases to 41

Eye of the Storm(reward for completing Fenris' quest in Act 3)
-DPS increases from 50 to 62
-Item value changes from orange to purple
-1 rune slot changes to 2 rune slots
-Magic requirement increases to 41

Tiger's Tail(found off Grace's body in Act 3)
-Base fire damage changes to electric damage
-DPS increases from 53 to 62
-Item value changes from orange to purple
-Attack changes to 2 rune slots
*this electric staff is mainly for those that never obtained Fenris in Act 1. Its an interesting staff for crit mages, too.

Staff of Violation(found off of Orsino's body in Act 3)
-DPS increases from 56 to 62(or 66)
*the weapon is only usable during the last 1% of the game so 66 is nice and balanced

------------

Aethenox: attack speed does increase casting speed

[IN1]

aethernox wrote...

Those are both excellent suggestions, though I'm not sure if the second runeslot pushes the first suggestion a bit too far. Though, to be fair, there aren't any especially important mage runes aside from Devastation, and that can only be placed once.

I have a question, though. IN1, in your description of the mechanics in various places, you referred to "attack speed" as "animation speed." This, and a few other comments, have led me to believe that +%attack speed also increases casting speed, but I have been too lazy to test it (even though haste makes it super easy). Is this so?

I'm very ignorant as far as mage mechanics are concerned Rumination says animation speed and casting speed are different parameters, so there is no reason to disbelieve him. For some speedy casting, you may just equip Void's Hammer

[naughty99]

rumination888 wrote...

If you remove your weapon, your characters will default to a base weapon. The base DPS for 1H, 2H, and staffs are all very similar. Bows have slightly more than double that DPS, and daggers(two of them) deal approximately ~25% more than bows.

You have suggested increasing the DPS for several staves.

To make sure I understand correctly, are you suggesting that the base damage of those staves would remain the same, but the animation speed should be increased to result in higher DPS?

Or are you proposing to increase the base damage, resulting in higher DPS?

[aethernox]

Those are a lot of great suggestions that touch on the major problems with those weapons; under-leveled base damage and skewed elemental favoritism in damage types.

Edit:
Thank you for the casting speed clarification, rumination.

IN1 wrote...
I'm very ignorant as far as mage mechanics are
concerned Rumination says animation speed and casting speed are
different parameters, so there is no reason to disbelieve him. For some
speedy casting, you may just equip Void's Hammer

I'm willing to take advantage of many game bugs; Allure's Crook templar, D&S rogue, conflicting sustains, scripting tactics to break sustain-restrictions on talents. Infinite exploits (aside from friendship/rivalry) and Void's Hammer casting goes a bit too far for me, honestly.

Modifié par aethernox, 15 avril 2011 - 09:08 .

[IN1]

You can see this item balance occur with promo items, Black Emporium items, and the Baasrath-Kata(Qunari Sword quest) weapons in Act 3

That's a comprehensive list, rumination, thanks! Now, if you were to single out two or three most important tweaks? Final Thought will be #1, I guess. What else?

[aethernox]

Cold-Blooded, the Final Thought, Voracity, and the Torch of Falon'Din, in my opinion, are the most important changes, in that order. Cold-Blooded is first because its issues allow it to get outclassed far too quickly, especially considering that it is an Act II exclusive that costs upwards of 40% to 60% of your Act II income.

[naughty99]

IN1 wrote...

You can see this item balance occur with promo items, Black Emporium items, and the Baasrath-Kata(Qunari Sword quest) weapons in Act 3

That's a comprehensive list, rumination, thanks! Now, if you were to single out two or three most important tweaks? Final Thought will be #1, I guess. What else?

Rumination made a lot of great suggestions - I would say that Cold-blooded, Final Thought, Falon'Din's Torch and Voracity are particularly important as they are considered among the most powerful staves.

Especially Cold-Blooded and Final Thought since they each cost in excess of 100gold. 

Edit: Ninja'd

Modifié par naughty99, 15 avril 2011 - 09:11 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

IN1 wrote...

Also, there are no unique nature staves now. Well, there is Sylvan's Heart, that I think is unobtainable in-game, and there is Bethany's Act III staff, but that does not really count.  

But the problem remains that Hawke has no nature based spells. It is better in my opinion to make it synergize with his spells. Mage Hawke can't afford to spend such a huge amount of gold for a staff to give to Merril. I don't think I'd spend so much on a staff just to have a staff that does a lot of nature damage but does not also give a % boost to some of my spells.

Oh, there's no %electric damage on any random item, drops or otherwise. I don't knjow if they can do a quick fix on that.

Also, the Mage Champion Armor could use so %spell damage boosters on it. As it is the champion armor sucks for mages and is well outclassesd by simply shopping for gear from stores that helps your spell damage.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 15 avril 2011 - 09:21 .

[rumination888]

naughty99 wrote...

You have suggested increasing the DPS for several staves.

To make sure I understand correctly, are you suggesting that the base damage of those staves would remain the same, but the animation speed should be increased to result in higher DPS?

Or are you proposing to increase the base damage, resulting in higher DPS?

Proposing to increase the base damage, resulting in higher DPS.
I mentioned DPS instead of damage because I don't know the exact correlation between damage and weapon types.

For reference, these are the damage/DPS values of Baasrath-Kata weapons:

Staff - 42/57
1H - 31/58
2H - 35/57
Bow - 123/116
Dagger - 39/72

Again, note how Staff, 1H, and 2H have similar DPS.
Bows double that, and 2 daggers does about ~25% more than bows.

[Darchon_]

The spirit bow is a great suggestion. I think it would be nice to have an act 2 elemental bow as well.
I want to suggest that Borderfall (Mirror Image Vaterral Drop) do nature damage, since it seems fitting, but there are many bows with +X Nature damage. Borderfall is such a mediocre reward for a decent creature fight. It's far outclassed by the Felon's Punch-cut, which is easier to obtain. I was quite disappointed when I got it the first time.

Maybe make Borderfall something like:
Damage: 80 Electricity (There are no electric bows)
+67 Attack
+5% Critical Chance

Granted, this will not do much against the Qunari, but they are the only electric immune enemies left in the game (and profane are the only others)


Also, about Staves: I would make the Torch a low priority for changing seeing as it's one of the few unique staves that are still viable at the end of the game. I would concentrate more on Sketch's Resplit Shaft and The Tiger's Tail

Sketch's: It's utterly useless in Act II. Up its damage and make it Nature (no unique nature staves I think) This would be an awesome Merril weapon in act 2 with the bloodmagic attribute.

Tiger's: While the +crit attributes are nice, do we really need a late act 3 staff that is weaker than a number of the act 2 staves? (Voracity, Cold Blooded). Also, do we really need ANOTHER fire staff? Cold would be better

[naughty99]

naughty99 wrote...
Have not seen any %electricity, +%cold or +%nature, but this is my first mage playthrough, will keep an eye out. (I'm using 2 "enemies drop better equipment" items.)

I can confirm a random drop of +%cold staff.

Ornate Demonic Staff dropped from one of the Revenants in the Golem Nexus Act 2 

Stats: 31 Spirit Damage - with +14% cold damage. 

Don't know if this is being considered for this Community Itemization Mod, but it would be great if it can incorporate a fix to align the elemental base damage of random dropped staves with the % elemental bonus damage. 

At the end game stage, random dropped items begin to outclass shoppable items.

Modifié par naughty99, 16 avril 2011 - 12:13 .