141 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I don't know what or if it should be fixed. But it doesn't seem right to me that 3 classes are at their optimum by spamming one power. Being able to struggle through the game using one power is one thing, but being at your best doesn't sit well with me. All of the classes can be played in a variety of ways, but you get through the levels better just with TA. I happen to like area pull on my vanguard, I strip defenses with a squadmate, pull, then charge in and point blank range floating foes. I think it is fun. But just charge spamming would have been quicker and easier.

  



You have a choice to Charge spam if you want to but to install more rules onto a single player game where who really cares what one does. Is wrong. I can half way understand this if it was a multi player game only . but I be dammed if I want my single player experienced governed by the rules of others. If I want to use certain powers only then I have that right. The system in Mass Effect 2 works fine. plus what is this the same ol nerf the Sh*t out of things because a few people hate it crap again. 

So invulnerabilty from ME1 was fine then because it is awesome when you are so indestrucible that you can pistol whip a freaking geth collosus to death?  Because if you only want to use one power, that is your choice after all.  The issue isn't using only one power if you like it, but if one power is so good that not only can you only use that power but you are at your best by only using that power.  If you have 6 powers on your list and you are weakened by using 5 of them, there seems to be an issue.  What makes you enjoy a game doesn't necesarrily mean it makes it a better game overall, better game for you maybe, but for most people maybe not.  My ideas could make it a worse game, or a better game or roughly the same who knows.  I have an issue with powers that are so good, that you are almost dumb for using your other powers in most situations.  Maybe the other powers suck and the issue is certain classes have a crappy power set up, maybe that power is just to damn good.  I know with soldier not only is AR stupidly powerful, but he has a list of really crapy powers so what else is a soldier going to do.   

[ExtremeOne]

Ahglock wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I don't know what or if it should be fixed. But it doesn't seem right to me that 3 classes are at their optimum by spamming one power. Being able to struggle through the game using one power is one thing, but being at your best doesn't sit well with me. All of the classes can be played in a variety of ways, but you get through the levels better just with TA. I happen to like area pull on my vanguard, I strip defenses with a squadmate, pull, then charge in and point blank range floating foes. I think it is fun. But just charge spamming would have been quicker and easier.

  



You have a choice to Charge spam if you want to but to install more rules onto a single player game where who really cares what one does. Is wrong. I can half way understand this if it was a multi player game only . but I be dammed if I want my single player experienced governed by the rules of others. If I want to use certain powers only then I have that right. The system in Mass Effect 2 works fine. plus what is this the same ol nerf the Sh*t out of things because a few people hate it crap again. 

So invulnerabilty from ME1 was fine then because it is awesome when you are so indestrucible that you can pistol whip a freaking geth collosus to death?  Because if you only want to use one power, that is your choice after all.  The issue isn't using only one power if you like it, but if one power is so good that not only can you only use that power but you are at your best by only using that power.  If you have 6 powers on your list and you are weakened by using 5 of them, there seems to be an issue.  What makes you enjoy a game doesn't necesarrily mean it makes it a better game overall, better game for you maybe, but for most people maybe not.  My ideas could make it a worse game, or a better game or roughly the same who knows.  I have an issue with powers that are so good, that you are almost dumb for using your other powers in most situations.  Maybe the other powers suck and the issue is certain classes have a crappy power set up, maybe that power is just to damn good.  I know with soldier not only is AR stupidly powerful, but he has a list of really crapy powers so what else is a soldier going to do.   

  



The issue has nothing to do with powers the issue is a group on here thinking they have the right to b*tch about people spamming one power and are demanding it be removed. as if this game is a multi player game. This is a single player game and I have a right to play how ever I want to. Bioware should make a game that allows for any play style. This proposal is wrong and totally restricts a player's right in how one wants to play. Why should you care if one power makes My Shepard more powerful than your Shepard. I have a right to use that one power.  This smells of a group of players want their rules pushed on us all . 

[RGFrog]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Seeing the ME3 screencaps (dammit I wanted to be spoiler free...) there are enemies with jetpacks, so at least there's an indication that there may be un-chargeable enemies. Are there going to be a lot of them...? who knows...

Anyways, I think it's hard to talk about changing a specific class or power when there are so many outside factors that we don't know. The jetpack enemy is one thing, but if they're going to add some kind complex melee fighting, for instance, then that might affect close quarters combat in general, with or without changing Charge. I like the challenge of Charging into Harbinger and Scions because they have special close range attacks, so maybe the melee combat could be similar, at least on paper. Though in practice, I'm skeptical about how it's going to be implemented. I fear that if melee becomes like a minigame / quick-time event type of thing, it'll suck because it's a separate mechanic 'added' in instead of being 'integrated' with the system.

Regarding Charge, I think it relates to the bigger issue of how defensive powers got screwed with the global cooldown. What you get in Barrier/GSB/Fortification, is wasting 12 seconds of CD in exchange for being able to survive 2 seconds longer on Insanity. That's garbage. Charge and AA, however, have built-in offense so they're worth it. I like that ME2 is steered towards offense in that regard, but if that's the case, then why bother giving us powers with such minimal return? I would've either gotten rid of them/boost their protection or shorten their CD.

Good points all around.

The melee system--that I think has been posted as an enemy only thing where shep is still limited to elbows and rifle butts--has me a little worried too. Granted a quick throw, or charge, etc. should get them out of the zone, but still... If they have swords, i want swords, too, i guess... lol

[Ahglock]

ExtremeOne wrote...



The issue has nothing to do with powers the issue is a group on here thinking they have the right to b*tch about people spamming one power and are demanding it be removed. as if this game is a multi player game. This is a single player game and I have a right to play how ever I want to. Bioware should make a game that allows for any play style. This proposal is wrong and totally restricts a player's right in how one wants to play. Why should you care if one power makes My Shepard more powerful than your Shepard. I have a right to use that one power.  This smells of a group of players want their rules pushed on us all . 

Well yeah.  You want to push your rules on others just as much.  If the rules I push were the way it is I'd be happier about the game, I'd have more fun playing each of these classes.    Don't pretend you have the moral high ground here, you are fighting for your vision of the game to become reality just as much as everyone else, so your rules can be pushed onto others.  

Multi-player or single player balance does matter.  You might not think so, but for the vast majority of gamers it does.  It makes the game more enjoyable for them  How you balance things will differ in a single player game, but it is still important.

[ExtremeOne]

Ahglock wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...



The issue has nothing to do with powers the issue is a group on here thinking they have the right to b*tch about people spamming one power and are demanding it be removed. as if this game is a multi player game. This is a single player game and I have a right to play how ever I want to. Bioware should make a game that allows for any play style. This proposal is wrong and totally restricts a player's right in how one wants to play. Why should you care if one power makes My Shepard more powerful than your Shepard. I have a right to use that one power.  This smells of a group of players want their rules pushed on us all . 

Well yeah.  You want to push your rules on others just as much.  If the rules I push were the way it is I'd be happier about the game, I'd have more fun playing each of these classes.    Don't pretend you have the moral high ground here, you are fighting for your vision of the game to become reality just as much as everyone else, so your rules can be pushed onto others.  

Multi-player or single player balance does matter.  You might not think so, but for the vast majority of gamers it does.  It makes the game more enjoyable for them  How you balance things will differ in a single player game, but it is still important.

   






The only thing I care about is player choice so if that is your idea of rules well thats your problem.  Its clear you and the rest on here hate power spammers. so your idea is to get it removed because you hate it . Thats a classic way of imposing your rules of playing the game onto others. This idea is bad and Bioware better allow for players to play how ever one choses with no restrictions. If power spamming is what you hate then you have a right not to play like that.  

[rt604]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...



The issue has nothing to do with powers the issue is a group on here thinking they have the right to b*tch about people spamming one power and are demanding it be removed. as if this game is a multi player game. This is a single player game and I have a right to play how ever I want to. Bioware should make a game that allows for any play style. This proposal is wrong and totally restricts a player's right in how one wants to play. Why should you care if one power makes My Shepard more powerful than your Shepard. I have a right to use that one power.  This smells of a group of players want their rules pushed on us all . 

Well yeah.  You want to push your rules on others just as much.  If the rules I push were the way it is I'd be happier about the game, I'd have more fun playing each of these classes.    Don't pretend you have the moral high ground here, you are fighting for your vision of the game to become reality just as much as everyone else, so your rules can be pushed onto others.  

Multi-player or single player balance does matter.  You might not think so, but for the vast majority of gamers it does.  It makes the game more enjoyable for them  How you balance things will differ in a single player game, but it is still important.

   






The only thing I care about is player choice so if that is your idea of rules well thats your problem.  Its clear you and the rest on here hate power spammers. so your idea is to get it removed because you hate it . Thats a classic way of imposing your rules of playing the game onto others. This idea is bad and Bioware better allow for players to play how ever one choses with no restrictions. If power spamming is what you hate then you have a right not to play like that.  

I think the point you make is valid.  You have a variety of powers, and if some happen to be more beneficial or useful than others in most situations naturally players will use the more often.  This occurs even more so on higher difficulty levels.  The class you play with also makes a difference.  But Bioware shouldn't nerf certain abililties just to make the player use other abilities.  Abilities should be used based on situation and play style, which should be player dictated.  Bioware should create situations where other abilities are useful, not by nerfing powers that are spammed.  The plethora of abilities just give the players tactical options, but ultimately the choice is determined by the player.

[Kronner]

rt604 wrote...
I think the point you make is valid.  You have a variety of powers, and if some happen to be more beneficial or useful than others in most situations naturally players will use the more often.  This occurs even more so on higher difficulty levels.  The class you play with also makes a difference.  But Bioware shouldn't nerf certain abililties just to make the player use other abilities.  Abilities should be used based on situation and play style, which should be player dictated.  Bioware should create situations where other abilities are useful, not by nerfing powers that are spammed. The plethora of abilities just give the players tactical options, but ultimately the choice is determined by the player.

Precisely.

[Waltzingbear]

Hmm.. Is creating such a situation possible?
Will a situation that renders Charge to be suicidal provide just as much a challenge to other classes or will it be impossible for them to do so without creating another problem in the other end?

Say hello to a back to back Pyro squad I guess...

[Stardusk78]

Waltzingbear wrote...

Hmm.. Is creating such a situation possible?
Will a situation that renders Charge to be suicidal provide just as much a challenge to other classes or will it be impossible for them to do so without creating another problem in the other end?

Say hello to a back to back Pyro squad I guess...

You can't predict it.

Given the vast amount of new Husk-like enemies of the different races there could be many suicidal Charge situations. Imagine the power of 2 or 3 Krogan husks, being fired at by a Baatarian husk and gang banged by 3 to 4 human husks.

Or...

The new Cerberus enemy shock troops use shock sticks (rods) like they seem to do. They might be able to stun you.  Getting gangbanged by them along with multiple Eviscerator using troops...well, I think that could be unchargeable.

New enemies create new challenges and possibilities. Maybe in those situations Charge is a bad idea and a new and improved Shockwave has some value so the Vanguard could use it to deal with such enemies...

Just some ideas....

[Waltzingbear]

I haven't thought of that; good points, good points...

It would seem like this is the direction ME3 is going to, if so then high five for Bioware.

[Bozorgmehr]

ExtremeOne wrote...

The only thing I care about is player choice so if that is your idea of rules well thats your problem.  Its clear you and the rest on here hate power spammers. so your idea is to get it removed because you hate it . Thats a classic way of imposing your rules of playing the game onto others. This idea is bad and Bioware better allow for players to play how ever one choses with no restrictions. If power spamming is what you hate then you have a right not to play like that. 

So you're basically saying anyone who loves something like, say, cryo blast, should be able to spam cryo blast throughout the entire game and have all enemies die like flies regardless the difficulty level?

That sounds pretty bad to me, and I hope (and I'm confident) that Bioware doesn't reduce Mass Effect to that kind of rubbish.

BTW, your 'problem' has an easy remedy - turn down the difficulty; on Casual (almost) everything will die when you spam cryo blast. Problem solved.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
So you're basically saying anyone who loves something like, say, cryo blast, should be able to spam cryo blast throughout the entire game and have all enemies die like flies regardless the difficulty level?

That sounds pretty bad to me, and I hope (and I'm confident) that Bioware doesn't reduce Mass Effect to that kind of rubbish.

BTW, your 'problem' has an easy remedy - turn down the difficulty; on Casual (almost) everything will die when you spam cryo blast. Problem solved.

Actually, by turning it down to Casual YOUR problem is solved too - almost any power will be just as good (or better) as (than) your superpower. And you will not be at your best if you spam only the superpower.

On the other hand, superpower really shines only on Hardcore/Insanity.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 avril 2011 - 08:14 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Actually, by turning it down to Casual YOUR problem is solved too - almost any power will be just as good (or better) as (than) your superpower. And you will not be at your best if you spam only the superpower.

On the other hand, superpower really shines only on Hardcore/Insanity.

Who'd have though something so casual would solve all our problems

I thing neither of us would like such a game though.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Who'd have though something so casual would solve all our problems

I think neither of us would like such a game though.

Sure.
I just thought that since you recommended this to solve one problem, I'd add an extra bonus on top hehe:D

[Alamar2078]

ExtremeOne wrote...
The issue has nothing to do with powers the issue is a group on here thinking they have the right to b*tch about people spamming one power and are demanding it be removed. as if this game is a multi player game. This is a single player game and I have a right to play how ever I want to. Bioware should make a game that allows for any play style. This proposal is wrong and totally restricts a player's right in how one wants to play. Why should you care if one power makes My Shepard more powerful than your Shepard. I have a right to use that one power.  This smells of a group of players want their rules pushed on us all . 

I think if powers were better balanced against each other so that there wasn't always one or two uber powers to go to then I don't see the problem.  If you want to just spam the same one or two powers you could do still do so .. nobody is taking that away from you.  You may not be as efficient as someone that uses the perfect power at the perfect time but you will still be able to have your one or two favorite powers and play the way you'd like.

[RGFrog]

Waltzingbear wrote...

Hmm.. Is creating such a situation possible?
Will a situation that renders Charge to be suicidal provide just as much a challenge to other classes or will it be impossible for them to do so without creating another problem in the other end?

Say hello to a back to back Pyro squad I guess...

I would hop that instead BW would have the AI employ different tactics based on your shep's class rather than just throwing more mooks at the situation.

[fegede]

rt604 wrote...
I think the point you make is valid.  You have a
variety of powers, and if some happen to be more beneficial or useful
than others in most situations naturally players will use the more
often.  This occurs even more so on higher difficulty levels.  The class
you play with also makes a difference.  But Bioware shouldn't nerf
certain abililties just to make the player use other abilities.
 Abilities should be used based on situation and play style, which
should be player dictated.  Bioware should create situations where other abilities are useful, not by nerfing powers that are spammed. The plethora of abilities just give the players tactical options, but ultimately the choice is determined by the player.

Thas is what ME2 is all about in my opinion. When you ask people what is their favorite class, you get all answers (maybe a little less engineers and sentinels, but still). You ask abou favorite weapons, you also get a lot of different answers, same for bonus powers. That is what's keeping me playing, the fact that you can play this game in at least a dozen different ways without gimping yourself.

What i'd like to see to further improve this system would be multiple unique class powers. Instead on Sentinel having only tech armor as a unique power, why not give them two or three  to choose from ? Each class would gain in versatility and uniqueness. Maybe make it like the bonus weapon, so if you choose one, you can't have the other. We would have to play mass effect 3  a dozen times just to try every unique power. Even more if there are different evolutions of every power.

The biggest challenge is balance, all powers must be useful, if not, why include them ? This is also the case for classes, if some classes are vastly inferior to others, it kinda spoils the fun of playing them. Having balance gives you the choice of playing how you want it instead of giving you the chance to gimp yourself or not.

I think going away from the global cooldown is a bad idea. It is to big of a risk and i like the way it plays out now. As of now, infiltrators don't really ''spam'' cloak, engineers use many powers beside drone and adepts do use other thing than singularity. They could use more variety, but they don't spam. Soldier isn't really about using many powers in the first place (I dislike soldier for that, but I think it is important for this class to stay that way, players need a class like that if they don't want to use powers all the time and play ME as a shooter and I respect that). That leaves vanguard and assault sentinel with the ''spamming problem''. With sentinel, the problem is that tech armor is just too good and needs to be changed.

Charge is just so awesome, i like being able to spam it. Just like Kronner, shotguning people at close range makes me really happy, and being able to do that the whole time with a vanguard is the most fun I'm having with the game. I like having the option to use pull or stasis or any power me3 could  add to the vanguard, but if that means i'm not able to shotgun people in the face for most of my kills, that would make me a very sad vanguard.

What I would really like to see is more combos with your squadmates. Right now, the only combo is warpbombing. Overload+neural shock work together to strip and neutralize, but it isn't a combo where the result is greater thant the sum of its parts like warpbombs. I would like to be able to combine powers from sqaudmates and shep to make a ''superpower'' at some cost ( if any of you ever played chrono trigger... back in the days lol). Combining singularity with mordin's incinerate to make a burning black hole, warp ammo with samara's reave to have life leeching bullets for a little time or legion's GSB with cloak to refill your shields while you relocate, etc. If balanced well, this could make for some awesome gameplay. The important word here again is BALANCE, I don't want to mop the floor with everybody cause my combo is so ultimate, I want variety and a thousand different ways to play and create a unique ME experience for everybody.