45 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

Once you have 3+upgrades and head shot bonuses as well as maxed out ammo power, disruptor for example, the Mantis can OSOK normal goons just like the Widow.

Remember, the Widow ONLY does 100 more points of damage than the Mantis and that is not enough to kill elites (Assassins, Guardians, Engineers, etc.) so opting for AG or AR training is almost always the best option imo.

If the Widow did something like 200 points more damage I could see the justification in it but as it is I think it wiser to opt for other weapon training.

If it really were an Elite Weapon, it should be OSOKing elites as well as goons.

[Kronner]

Seriously?

Widow is the ultimate Sniper Rifle. Mantis on steroids. Unlike pew-pew Viper, which is not really sniper rifle (though I like it), and pathetic Incisor, Widow is an actual sniper rifle.

Modifié par Kronner, 15 avril 2011 - 06:57 .

[Stardusk78]

Kronner wrote...

Seriously?

Widow is the ultimate Sniper Rifle. Mantis on steroids. Unlike pew-pew Viper, which is not really sniper rifle (though I like it), and pathetic Incisor, Widow is an actual sniper rifle.

The Widow does approximately 100 points more damage than the Mantis; both SRs can OSOK normal goons, neither can OSOK elites...so, what is really the point, apart from the looks and the cool sound?

[Simbacca]

NG+

[Kronner]

Stardusk78 wrote...

both SRs can OSOK normal goons, neither can OSOK elites...so, what is really the point, apart from the looks and the cool sound?

Mantis can't 1S1K without Cloak afaik. And it's 100 BASE damage, which is a lot more in the end.

Also, NG+.

Modifié par Kronner, 15 avril 2011 - 07:22 .

[Stardusk78]

Kronner wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

both SRs can OSOK normal goons, neither can OSOK elites...so, what is really the point, apart from the looks and the cool sound?

Mantis can't 1S1K without Cloak afaik. And it's 100 BASE damage, which is a lot more in the end.

Also, NG+.

It can; I just did Miranda's Loyalty mission and I OSOKed the normal goons just fine; 3+head shot upgrades, plus armour and Miranda bonuses; very possible.

This is my complaint; the Widow should be more powerful, just like the Claymore should be...

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Relative to other sniper rifles, the Widow is arguably more powerful than the Claymore is to other shotguns (esp. given the GPS, Evi, Scimitar)... the fact that it doesn't require an animation cancel to be effective (its damage output is insane when using a power reload).. nor does it require point-blank range...

But back on topic. The 100+ base damage over the Mantis is incredible, and it even has more ammo than the Mantis... Unless you want to go shotguns or something, the Widow is an absolutely no-brainer upgrade.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 15 avril 2011 - 08:08 .

[kstarler]

I take the Widow for Infiltrators unless I'm going to go CQC (and that one time I took the Mattock) because I'm not the greatest shot. I rarely miss entirely, but I do miss head shots about 40% of the time, and the extra damage can still 1S1K an enemy with a body shot in most cases. So for me, the extra damage is like a safety net for when the enemy twitches just so to take it in the chest rather than the head. Plus, it doesn't sound like much, but those three extra bullets can be the difference between having to switch weapons during an enemy engagement.

[jamesp81]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Once you have 3+upgrades and head shot bonuses as well as maxed out ammo power, disruptor for example, the Mantis can OSOK normal goons just like the Widow.

Remember, the Widow ONLY does 100 more points of damage than the Mantis and that is not enough to kill elites (Assassins, Guardians, Engineers, etc.) so opting for AG or AR training is almost always the best option imo.

If the Widow did something like 200 points more damage I could see the justification in it but as it is I think it wiser to opt for other weapon training.

If it really were an Elite Weapon, it should be OSOKing elites as well as goons.

Granted, that for common mooks, the Mantis and Widow are about the same.  The Widow really shines against things like Scions and Krogan, however.  No, it doesn't OSOK them, but nothing does.  Two well placed shots under AR with the Widow + Incendiary should kill most Krogan.  Three will do a Scion.  Time it right, and it can kill such mini-bosses very quickly.

Put another way: the Widow functions not just as a sniper rifle, but also as a heavy weapon.  Taking the Widow (whether you're infiltrator or soldier) means basically getting two heavy weapons as opposed to one.

Edit: Put a third way......

The Widow is like a light anti-armor / anti-materiel rifle (such as the Barret M82A1), whereas the Mantis is much like Remington 700 / M24 SWS, which is intended for use against enemy soldiers exclusively.  No light anti-materiel weapon like the M82 is expected to take out a lightly armored vehicle with a single shot, whereas OSOK on enemy soldiers with the Remington 700 is the norm.  The game actually reflects this pretty accurately.  Krogan and Scions fall into the light armor category.  The Widow works very well against them where the Mantis simply fails.  Both, however, will OSOK the average mook.

Modifié par jamesp81, 15 avril 2011 - 08:22 .

[RGFrog]

Are you using heightened AR's 140% damage bonus or AC's 75% damage bonus?

Either way, the range is roughly 230 to 300(ish) points of difference (3 damage, headshot, and depending on what cloak or AR you're using) between the two weapons. Not 100.

I don't know and couldn't find the exact numbers, but that looks to be an entire layer of protection difference to me?

[lazuli]

My only problem with the Widow is that taking it prevents me from using a shotgun on an Infiltrator.

[RGFrog]

Do you soften with the Mantis, cloak, shotgun murderize then? Or just cloak and shotgun?

[Bozorgmehr]

Stardusk78 wrote...

This is my complaint; the Widow should be more powerful, just like the Claymore should be...

More powerful? LOL, you want to one-shot the only enemies who (potentially) can put up a fight? The Claymore can kill >90% of all enemies (one-shot); elites and bosses are the only serious tread - when your shot doesn't stagger, doesn't panic (immune) enemies - they will return fire; and at that range means you've lost your shield (and are in trouble).

Play an easier level if you want to one-shot everything (or use Stasis before Widow shots).

P.S. You sure about the Mantis? Would be nice if non-Soldier/Infiltrators could one-shoot goons - would make the Mantis a viable choice. But the times I tested it, it couldn't one-shot normal enemies which makes it rather useless imo.

[kstarler]

@Boz, I'm positive that you can 1S1K enemies with the Mantis without AR/Cloak pre-level 30, with the help of an ammo power. I'm not sure if it is possible post 30/NG+ or without an ammo power. The times where I've used it to 1S1K enemies without AR/Cloak I was using either Incendiary, Disruptor or Warp ammo.

[Saaziel]

Its the Sleekest weapon in the game.

The only reason to take is not only to one shot mooks, but looking damn good doing it. But like Jamesp81 said, you'll notice the difference when shooting Scions, YMIR and the likes. Its not worth it for a "jack-of-all-trades" infiltrator, but you can tailor your build to up the damage significantly.

[Bozorgmehr]

kstarler wrote...

@Boz, I'm positive that you can 1S1K enemies with the Mantis without AR/Cloak pre-level 30, with the help of an ammo power. I'm not sure if it is possible post 30/NG+ or without an ammo power. The times where I've used it to 1S1K enemies without AR/Cloak I was using either Incendiary, Disruptor or Warp ammo.

I will give it another try then One-shotting enemies at point blank range is awesome - but shooting them between the eyes from afar is pretty cool too.

[DxWill10]

jamesp81 wrote...


Granted, that for common mooks, the Mantis and Widow are about the same.  The Widow really shines against things like Scions and Krogan, however.  No, it doesn't OSOK them, but nothing does.  Two well placed shots under AR with the Widow + Incendiary should kill most Krogan.  Three will do a Scion.  Time it right, and it can kill such mini-bosses very quickly.

Put another way: the Widow functions not just as a sniper rifle, but also as a heavy weapon.  Taking the Widow (whether you're infiltrator or soldier) means basically getting two heavy weapons as opposed to one.

This is why I favor the Widow, especially for Soldier.  The amount of damage a Widow does to a Scion compared to the Mantis is absolutely noticeable. Plus Mantis ammo is teh sux

[termokanden]

Kronner wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

both SRs can OSOK normal goons, neither can OSOK elites...so, what is really the point, apart from the looks and the cool sound?

Mantis can't 1S1K without Cloak afaik. And it's 100 BASE damage, which is a lot more in the end.

Also, NG+.

This is my experience. With around 3 upgrades and Warp Ammo I could start one-shotting without Cloak. Why is that important? Because infiltrators do not just spam Cloak. Furthermore, I use sniper rifles against bigger targets as well. No reason why you wouldn't want to kill them faster.

Saaziel wrote...

Its the Sleekest weapon in the game.

The only reason to take is not only to one shot mooks, but looking damn good doing it. But like Jamesp81 said, you'll notice the difference when shooting Scions, YMIR and the likes. Its not worth it for a "jack-of-all-trades" infiltrator, but you can tailor your build to up the damage significantly.

I think it is. The way I see it, you either go for the Widow or the Viper. If you do go for the Widow, just make sure you have 3 upgrades for SMGs and pistols and you'll do fine in any situation.

Modifié par termokanden, 15 avril 2011 - 10:08 .

[Stardusk78]

RGFrog wrote...

Are you using heightened AR's 140% damage bonus or AC's 75% damage bonus?

Either way, the range is roughly 230 to 300(ish) points of difference (3 damage, headshot, and depending on what cloak or AR you're using) between the two weapons. Not 100.

I don't know and couldn't find the exact numbers, but that looks to be an entire layer of protection difference to me?

None; I can one shot mooks with the Mantis with just the 3+head shot upgrades, heavy disruptor, Miranda and armour bonuses; Assassin Infiltrator.

[Stardusk78]

kstarler wrote...

@Boz, I'm positive that you can 1S1K enemies with the Mantis without AR/Cloak pre-level 30, with the help of an ammo power. I'm not sure if it is possible post 30/NG+ or without an ammo power. The times where I've used it to 1S1K enemies without AR/Cloak I was using either Incendiary, Disruptor or Warp ammo.

Yes, you need a fully evolved ammo power, that's true.

[Stardusk78]

Hmm, just tested it on the Blue Suns...not enough to OSOK Blue Suns mooks, only Eclipse...hmm. I think I will just switch back to my Incisor.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Using a power reload, the Widow should probably be one of, if not the highest dps gun(s) in the game, right? The other two being the Mattock(non-ARush'd)/Viper and probably the Claymore, I'm guessing.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 16 avril 2011 - 02:45 .

[The Spamming Troll]

the widow is the best gun in the game, heav weapons included. its actually the best "thing" in the game. its a killing machine, and in the non stop slow mo cloaking infiltrators hands, its nothing but unfair to any class that doesnt have that potential.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the widow is the best gun in the game, heav weapons included. its actually the best "thing" in the game. its a killing machine, and in the non stop slow mo cloaking infiltrators hands, its nothing but unfair to any class that doesnt have that potential.

Soldiers are better at the Widow than Infiltrators.