45 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

lazuli wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the widow is the best gun in the game, heav weapons included. its actually the best "thing" in the game. its a killing machine, and in the non stop slow mo cloaking infiltrators hands, its nothing but unfair to any class that doesnt have that potential.

Soldiers are better at the Widow than Infiltrators.

Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

[Kronner]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Hmm, just tested it on the Blue
Suns...not enough to OSOK Blue Suns mooks, only Eclipse...hmm. I think I
will just switch back to my Incisor.

Good to know I remember that correctly. Mantis is not good enough to 1S1K. Widow is.

jbblue05 wrote...

Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

Yeah...no.

[Irrepressible]

I'm another of those people that do not use the Widow on an Infiltrator. In my eyes it's unnecessary to pigeonhole the character just for the 'ultimate weapon'. Sure I do it on a Vanguard for the Claymore, but considering Infiltrator's have a whole lot more fluidity in gameplay it doesn't really make sense to me, much better off taking AR training or Shotgun training to mix things up. The Mantis can certainly do the job well enough, as can the Viper in different ways.

Saaziel wrote...

Its the Sleekest weapon in the game.

Sleek? When it's strapped to your back it's an absolutely huge cylinder, when your using it it's so bulky and long it's almost as tall as your character, how in blue hell does that make the Widow 'sleek'?! The Viper is sleek, the Vindicator is sleek, the Widow is a tree trunk. :happy:

[jbblue05]

Kronner wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Hmm, just tested it on the Blue
Suns...not enough to OSOK Blue Suns mooks, only Eclipse...hmm. I think I
will just switch back to my Incisor.

Good to know I remember that correctly. Mantis is not good enough to 1S1K. Widow is.

jbblue05 wrote...

Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

Yeah...no.

The slo-mo sniper zoom can be used a lot more frequently than AR, which means you ca pull head-shots off faster and more easily.

[ahgchyhn]

kronner probably is offended by the exaggeration of "10x faster". while i too believe, that a widow infiltrator can clear a room faster than a widow soldier, we shouldn't forget, that a soldier has access to the overpowerded mattock in combination with adrenalin rush, which seems one, if not the fastest method of clearing rooms (rivaled maybe by a charging vanguard).

i believe the widow was invented to retain the ability to 1S1K against higher level enemies and on ng+, where the mantis will loose ground. i haven't test it, but i think the mantis can't oneshot regular enemies in a ng+ (at least not with nearly all damage boosts available or non-armored enemies), but i could do the math if someone is interested.

another fact to consider is ammunition. the mantis has the entry "fAmmoMultiplier=0.5" in the coalesced.ini, which seems to be the amount of ammo your clips pick up. thats's the halve of the widow. also the mantis doesn't seem to benefit from off-hand ammo pack, while the widow does.

Modifié par ahgchyhn, 16 avril 2011 - 09:02 .

[Kronner]

jbblue05 wrote...
Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

Kronner wrote...
Yeah...no.

jbblue05 wrote...
The slo-mo sniper zoom can be used a lot more frequently than AR, which means you ca pull head-shots off faster and more easily.

Headshots, maybe; but while you are aiming for headshot, Soldier can easily kill multiple enemies. I think the speed difference between the two classes is not significant. I'd actually say Soldier is slightly faster.

[naledgeborn]

The Mantis does (Soldier) OSOK. I did a SM test run yesterday @ 30 with all upgrades 5/5 and Miranda was in the squad with + 15 dmg evolution. I took the Avenger, Katana, Mantis, Carnifex, and Grenade Launcher, I was wearing the normal N7 set so no bonuses there either. I took Scions out in 5-6 shots with the Mantis (S. Incendiary). Doubling the amount of Widow shots needed. However, husks and collector drones were OSOK if it was a headshot.

edit: Drones were not OSOK. Very close.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 16 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[ahgchyhn]

if this is the case, then this would be another point against the mantis, because you can't pick up the last sniper damage upgrade until the derelict reaper, which ist near the end of the game.

[Stardusk78]

ahgchyhn wrote...

if this is the case, then this would be another point against the mantis, because you can't pick up the last sniper damage upgrade until the derelict reaper, which ist near the end of the game.

5/5 you can get via LOTSB.

[ahgchyhn]

yeah, you can get an additonal earlier, but this also adds one more to the total amount of available upgrades. i believe the enemy damage/hitpoints etc. are scaled relativly to this total amount, so this additional upgrade wouldn't change anything in regards to mechanics observed by naledgeborn.

[aimlessgun]

ahgchyhn wrote...

yeah, you can get an additonal earlier, but this also adds one more to the total amount of available upgrades. i believe the enemy damage/hitpoints etc. are scaled relativly to this total amount, so this additional upgrade wouldn't change anything in regards to mechanics observed by naledgeborn.

Whoa, really? So if I do LotSB all the enemies in the game suddenly become harder?

[ahgchyhn]

i think if you install any dlc with upgrades this scaling adjustment kicks in.

but you have to remember you also get stronger when you aquire these upgrades, so the relation between your and the enemies strength will stay the same. beside that +10% damage suffered is hardly noticeable.

it may only be a factor in a ng+ with maxed enemy upgrades and none on your side.

Modifié par ahgchyhn, 17 avril 2011 - 12:26 .

[Kronner]

naledgeborn wrote...

The Mantis does (Soldier) OSOK. I did a SM test run yesterday @ 30 with all upgrades 5/5 and Miranda was in the squad with + 15 dmg evolution. I took the Avenger, Katana, Mantis, Carnifex, and Grenade Launcher, I was wearing the normal N7 set so no bonuses there either. I took Scions out in 5-6 shots with the Mantis (S. Incendiary). Doubling the amount of Widow shots needed. However, husks and collector drones were OSOK if it was a headshot.

edit: Drones were not OSOK. Very close.

Blue Suns are far tougher than Drones, not even fully upgraded Mantis can OSOK them.

Modifié par Kronner, 17 avril 2011 - 08:10 .

[naledgeborn]

Kronner wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

The Mantis does (Soldier) OSOK. I did a SM test run yesterday @ 30 with all upgrades 5/5 and Miranda was in the squad with + 15 dmg evolution. I took the Avenger, Katana, Mantis, Carnifex, and Grenade Launcher, I was wearing the normal N7 set so no bonuses there either. I took Scions out in 5-6 shots with the Mantis (S. Incendiary). Doubling the amount of Widow shots needed. However, husks and collector drones were OSOK if it was a headshot.

edit: Drones were not OSOK. Very close.

Blue Suns are far tougher than Drones, not even fully upgraded Mantis can OSOK them.

Not 10 secs ago just tested Mantis on LotSB. In ARush SB mook fully shielded is OSOK. Out of ARush leaves him just below 50% health. With Collector Drones out of ARush they're at about 5-10% health.

[Kronner]

naledgeborn wrote...

Not 10 secs ago just tested Mantis on LotSB. In ARush SB mook fully shielded is OSOK. Out of ARush leaves him just below 50% health. With Collector Drones out of ARush they're at about 5-10% health.

Yeah, like I said, Mantis is just not good enough to OSOK without AR or Cloak.

Modifié par Kronner, 17 avril 2011 - 12:53 .

[jbblue05]

Kronner wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

Kronner wrote...
Yeah...no.

jbblue05 wrote...
The slo-mo sniper zoom can be used a lot more frequently than AR, which means you ca pull head-shots off faster and more easily.

Headshots, maybe; but while you are aiming for headshot, Soldier can easily kill multiple enemies. I think the speed difference between the two classes is not significant. I'd actually say Soldier is slightly faster.

I'm talking about using the widow as your main weapon..

I don't think anything can match the speed of mattock in AR or Vaguard

Modifié par jbblue05, 17 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[AK404]

 I'd be inclined to agree if only it weren't for all those silly damage upgrades.

A fully-upgraded Mantis is 420.96 damage before headshot and armor-piercing bonuses, while a Widow would be would be 589.28 damage.  With headshot damage on top of all that...I'd dare say that the difference between the two is a bit more than 'just' 100 points.

[termokanden]

jbblue05 wrote...

Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

As Kronner has already said, no they can't.

However, Infiltrators have a unique style that some of us love. That's what it's all about, not who can clear a room the fastest.

If you're going for a speedrun, that might matter. If you're just trying to enjoy the game, who cares?

[jbblue05]

termokanden wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Soldiers are better damagers but Infiltrators can clear a room 10x faster

As Kronner has already said, no they can't.

However, Infiltrators have a unique style that some of us love. That's what it's all about, not who can clear a room the fastest.

If you're going for a speedrun, that might matter. If you're just trying to enjoy the game, who cares?

A widow Infiltrator easily clears a room faster than a Widow Soldier and its not even close

[jamesp81]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

This is my complaint; the Widow should be more powerful, just like the Claymore should be...

More powerful? LOL, you want to one-shot the only enemies who (potentially) can put up a fight? The Claymore can kill >90% of all enemies (one-shot); elites and bosses are the only serious tread - when your shot doesn't stagger, doesn't panic (immune) enemies - they will return fire; and at that range means you've lost your shield (and are in trouble).

Play an easier level if you want to one-shot everything (or use Stasis before Widow shots).

P.S. You sure about the Mantis? Would be nice if non-Soldier/Infiltrators could one-shoot goons - would make the Mantis a viable choice. But the times I tested it, it couldn't one-shot normal enemies which makes it rather useless imo.

The Mantis does one shot normal enemies in the hands of a Soldier or Infiltrator.  Use the right ammo power and Tactical Cloak or Adrenaline Rush, and most mooks die from a single headshot (with Infiltrator time slowdown and Soldier AR, getting headshots should be very easy).

The Mantis may not one shot some normal mooks in the hands of another class that lacks the considerable damage boosts provided by AR, Cloak, and appropriate ammo powers.  I once played a Sniper sentinel and, knowing this beforehand, used the Viper instead of the Mantis (even though I don't care for the Viper much).

[termokanden]

That's why we have been saying it's not enough to one-shot without Cloak.

It also matters how much damage you deal when you are shooting at tougher enemies.

Modifié par termokanden, 18 avril 2011 - 08:40 .