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[Torax]

TobiTobsen wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

Torax wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

theauthority wrote...

Can't speak for Anders, but in the Hawke/Merrill instance, it's only natural for Hawke to invite Merrill after like, what, 3/4 years since they met? True, it took a while to get into a full-fledged relationship but it's not a big leap in my book.
Plus, Hawke is supposed to have a crapload of money (inventory golds aside ) AND has a bigger place to live in, so why not sharing?
Varric is the other wealthy companion but Merrill's driving him bankrupt...

speaking of verric why no dwarf love..even as fem hawke you can't romance him

Apparently all the dwarves are only into other dwarves. Besides like an Old Tale of Mathias the Dwarfson. So players do not get to have Varric like I couldn't have Sigrun. Live with it.

my warden is a dwarf and he had a thing for human witches of the wilds. and if you lisen to varric he talks about how he likes the bar maid.

To bad Emile was faster than Varric.

That women was not the barmaid Nora and she was only there for the emile scene. Of which she won't be there again cause well she wants to be a Lady much to the embarrassment of the De Launcet family.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Some banter and dialogue seems to indicate that mages are more amorous than non-mages as a general rule. If that's true, I could see the justification for it... a stronger connection to the fade makes them more emotionally charged.

I found Isabela and Leliana quite amorous. Moreso than Merrill.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Some banter and dialogue seems to indicate that mages are more amorous than non-mages as a general rule. If that's true, I could see the justification for it... a stronger connection to the fade makes them more emotionally charged.

I found Isabela and Leliana quite amorous. Moreso than Merrill.

Isabela's a given, but I found Leliana to be looking for a commitment. It's why she doesn't fall in love with the warden before she reaches 90+ approval. Now, if you had said Isabela and Zevran...

Anyway, it was more of a 'general rule' than an absolute truth. I don't know if it's true or not, but it would make some sense if it were.

[Maria Caliban]

I'm not sure how 'looking for a commitment' in anyway negates being amorous.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 avril 2011 - 09:31 .

[Torax]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm not sure how 'looking for a commitment' in anyway negates being amorous.

You'd hope they'd go hand in or hand. Unless someone was just with another person for money lol

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm not sure how 'looking for a commitment' in anyway negates being amorous.

She won't sleep with the Warden unless she falls in love with him/her. That doesn't strike me as being particularly amorous.

[whykikyouwhy]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

She won't sleep with the Warden unless she falls in love with him/her. That doesn't strike me as being particularly amorous.

Perhaps playing devil's advocate here, but why does amourousness equate to sex?

Not that there's anything wrong with the two things working cohesively, but they can exist independent of one another.

[Torax]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm not sure how 'looking for a commitment' in anyway negates being amorous.

She won't sleep with the Warden unless she falls in love with him/her. That doesn't strike me as being particularly amorous.

Leliana is also the only one who won't kiss in public. It's not like any of the relationships in the games are cookie cutter types. Leliana trying to compliment a female warden about her hair is still an embarrassingly funny conversations though.

Modifié par Torax, 15 avril 2011 - 09:45 .

[hoorayforicecream]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Perhaps playing devil's advocate here, but why does amourousness equate to sex?

Not that there's anything wrong with the two things working cohesively, but they can exist independent of one another.

Well, that's actually a good point. If you take the literal meaning of amorous (i.e. focusing on the love aspect), I'd say Isabela's not amorous at all. She's promiscuous and free-spirited, but definitely not amorous. I took a more sexual view because Maria Caliban mentioned Isabela as an example of an amorous individual. If you look at it from an emotional perspective, Merrill and Anders are much more amorous than Isabela.

[whykikyouwhy]

And yet, we could argue that Isabela is amorous (it's nice when I spell it right). If you're actively romancing her, her casual attitude toward things sexual does dissolve, and she grows more attached and attracted to Hawke. So it's an amorous state in flux.

[Saephy]

Torax wrote...

He talks about Edwina which is a reference to another game and is never actually seen in DA2. A reference about a Transvestite mage if I recall. Oghren flirted with women but didn't act on them and Player Characters do not count.

It´s from BGII and the Nether Scroll quest with Edwin, whom by the way was hilarious.
Just wanted it said, I sort of miss Edwin... 

[hoorayforicecream]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

And yet, we could argue that Isabela is amorous (it's nice when I spell it right). If you're actively romancing her, her casual attitude toward things sexual does dissolve, and she grows more attached and attracted to Hawke. So it's an amorous state in flux.

It might help if you defined what you think the term "amorous" means then. I think we're getting wires crossed.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Torax wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

Torax wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

theauthority wrote...

Can't speak for Anders, but in the Hawke/Merrill instance, it's only natural for Hawke to invite Merrill after like, what, 3/4 years since they met? True, it took a while to get into a full-fledged relationship but it's not a big leap in my book.
Plus, Hawke is supposed to have a crapload of money (inventory golds aside ) AND has a bigger place to live in, so why not sharing?
Varric is the other wealthy companion but Merrill's driving him bankrupt...

speaking of verric why no dwarf love..even as fem hawke you can't romance him

Apparently all the dwarves are only into other dwarves. Besides like an Old Tale of Mathias the Dwarfson. So players do not get to have Varric like I couldn't have Sigrun. Live with it.

my warden is a dwarf and he had a thing for human witches of the wilds. and if you lisen to verric he talks about how he likes the bar maid.

He talks about Edwina which is a reference to another game and is never actually seen in DA2. A reference about a Transvestite mage if I recall. Oghren flirted with women but didn't act on them and Player Characters do not count.

player characters do not count... you just decided that for yourself then? 

it's obvious that some dwarves had inter-racial relationships, since everyone else DOES, and it kinda says that children with dwarf + human parents tend to be human ( I think ), so only one way that theory was tested...

[TobiTobsen]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

And yet, we could argue that Isabela is amorous (it's nice when I spell it right). If you're actively romancing her, her casual attitude toward things sexual does dissolve, and she grows more attached and attracted to Hawke. So it's an amorous state in flux.

Isabela just needs seven years to accept/realise that she is.
I mean... if you play Hawke as just Isabela focused, without flirting with the rest of the gang, he is freaking patient. Waiting seven years for your crush to reciprocate your feelings, while half your friends try to hit on you? That's quite the commitment... or obsession

[whykikyouwhy]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

It might help if you defined what you think the term "amorous" means then. I think we're getting wires crossed.

What immediately comes to mind are two things - the emotional and the physical. Emotional in the whole 18th century poets writing to each other from across the moors and yet not ever coming into contact with each other in the same room, but penning letters bursting with talk of star-crossed souls and the like. So, amorous in expression of very intense feelings for one another. And physical for the acting out of said feelings (but we need not keep the poet analogy). Love being the root of the word and all, and love possessing many aspects and levels, an amorous individual could be expressing oneself with kisses, nuzzling and/or sex yet be completely alright with something temporary, or long-term. I guess it all depends on the expectations and how the person is living in the moment.

Isabela, I think, lives mostly in the moment. And while she doesn't "make love" (as she tells Merrill), her story arc (if romanced) leads her to accepting not only giving love but being love.

I may have muddled it all, but I think both Leliana and Isabela can be amorous in their own way.

[DeathStride]

King Killoth wrote...
ok across all my playthroughs I have romanced every person.. why is it the only two people who move in with hawk are the mages. Anders and Merrill. the other two sorta just stay at their palce and only come over to knock boots. are mages more lovie dovie than normal people?

Isn't that a massive generalization? Number of mages in Thedas: at least 100,000, probably more. Number of mages you based your conclusion on: 2.

Just sayin that the very question itself is based on a false premise.

EDIT: Additionally, the easiest and most prominent example to the contrary would be Morrigan from Origins. And that's just companions, there are countless cold-hearted mages in both games.

Modifié par DeathStride, 15 avril 2011 - 10:20 .

[Torax]

I think it's just more that you have to take each one on a case by case basis. That really it's just Isabela and Fenris have reasons that keep them from trusting others and or having commitment to others. Neither of them really want to trust others that deeply I think. Meanwhile the two mages just happen to wear their hearts on their sleeves more or less. This allowed them to move in. They also had the less cozy lives. Just one giant coincidence that they were also mages I figure.

[LobselVith8]

theauthority wrote...

Imho, Merrill seeks somebody who would take care of her in a strange, alien world (which does not cheapen her true affection towards Hawke, there's proof enough anywhere from banter to dialogues). Even in rival romance, she knows Hawke's the only one who'll be there for her.

I don't see Hawke taking care of her, since she lives on her own in the Alienage for years before Hawke even invites her to live with him, and even then she spends a lot of time in her own house working on building the Eluvian.

[thegrimfandango]

AshleyS3 wrote...

That's the thing. With the amount of time that's passed of course it makes sense for them to be at that stage in a relationship. But at the same time, the way the scene happens it's kind of like you have sex and then they are all like "I love you, let's live together". It just seems so sudden, even though it really isn't.

I thought the same thing, it didn't FEEL like any time had passed or the relationship had progressed to that night. It felt like they hooked up and I really wanted an option after other that 'We slept together, move in now!' and '****** off'. I didn't feel like not agreeing to her instantly moving in should end the relationship altogether. Even a couple lines after where she asks if she can stay or something would have felt better, especially with the rivalry romance. It just jarred a bit with me that when two rivals come together, it instantly goes all gooey rather than being a bit more fraught and passionate. I guess that was a resources thing, since it would have meant 2 romance conclusions for every LI.

[LobselVith8]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I got the same feeling you did about Merrill. The difference is that I didn't see Merrill as being quite as healthy a relationship, since it seems more like she fixated on the first person who showed her any sort of decency in years (Hawke).

Hawke's behavior towards her depends entirely on how the protagonist reacts to her, and Varric also shows her decency, looks out for her, he pays off people to look out for her, buys her food...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

That sort of thing happens very commonly with people that have low self-esteem that come from a background of emotional abuse. It can work, but it would never be a relationship of equals, and that's something my Hawke valued.

The only problem with that assessment is we know Merrill had a friendship with the Dalish protagonist who becomes a Warden unless we choose another protagonist from a different background; it's part of the reason behind Merrill's desire to create a functional Eluvian.

[hoorayforicecream]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke's behavior towards her depends entirely on how the protagonist reacts to her, and Varric also shows her decency, looks out for her, he pays off people to look out for her, buys her food...

A Hawke that is romancing Merrill has flirted with her, has brought her from the dalish into the city, has visited her in her home, has helped her, and has spent time with her.

Varric, Isabela, etc. come by way of Hawke. Most of the cases of fixation come target the first person, not the kindest person, because the person who becomes fixated sees the kindness of the first person as being causal. And in Merrill's case, this would be correct. Without Hawke to bring them, Merrill likely would never have met Isabela or Varric.

The only problem with that assessment is we know Merrill had a friendship with the Dalish protagonist who becomes a Warden unless we choose another protagonist from a different background; it's part of the reason behind Merrill's desire to create a functional Eluvian.

If there was a dalish protagonist who became a warden. But even supposing there was, I don't really remember Merrill being particularly close to the dalish warden, nor do I remember the rest of the clan treating Merrill like a pariah. 

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If there was a dalish protagonist who became a warden. But even supposing there was, I don't really remember Merrill being particularly close to the dalish warden, nor do I remember the rest of the clan treating Merrill like a pariah.

The Dalish origin doesn't feature a lot of clan interaction, so we wouldn't get a clear view of how close she and Merrill were. But Merrill's comments about her in DAII suggest that they were very close. Luckily, this was already in my head!canon.

Also, the First is by nature an outsider. She doesn't sleep or learn with the other elves. They're a communal culture, so there's of course some social interaction, but when she was a child, she probably only ever saw the other elves at meals and the like. Except my Warden, who was a mage. It's like the writers asked me what Merrill's deal was in Origins.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 16 avril 2011 - 12:37 .

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If there was a dalish protagonist who became a warden. But even supposing there was, I don't really remember Merrill being particularly close to the dalish warden, nor do I remember the rest of the clan treating Merrill like a pariah.

The Dalish origin doesn't feature a lot of clan interaction, so we wouldn't get a clear view of how close she and Merrill were. But Merrill's comments about her in DAII suggest that they were very close. Luckily, this was already in my head!canon.

Also, the First is by nature an outsider. She doesn't sleep or learn with the other elves. They're a communal culture, so there's of course some social interaction, but when she was a child, she probably only ever saw the other elves at meals and the like. Except my Warden, who was a mage. It's like the writers asked me what Merrill's deal was in Origins.

That makes sense. It also adds to the whole 'social outcast loner' image I get from her... she was separated from her one friend, then treated like a pariah for a long while, which leads to something of a Hawke fixation if Hawke romances her.

[theauthority]

LobselVith8 wrote...

theauthority wrote...

Imho, Merrill seeks somebody who would take care of her in a strange, alien world (which does not cheapen her true affection towards Hawke, there's proof enough anywhere from banter to dialogues). Even in rival romance, she knows Hawke's the only one who'll be there for her.

I don't see Hawke taking care of her, since she lives on her own in the Alienage for years before Hawke even invites her to live with him, and even then she spends a lot of time in her own house working on building the Eluvian.

That's because of game mechanics, when a romance is set it basically gets to a grinding halt, nothing more. With "squatter" LIs like Merrill is like Flirt-Engage-Get Naughty-Move to Mansion and... that's it. Isabela stops at the Get Naughty, but that's another story.
Hawke "taking care of her", like I said in my previous post, is hinted in the Rival Romance, when she asks why Hawke won't stop checking on her (flirting stage).
Merrill doesn't fully move to Hawke's until Act III if I'm right. Which doesn't add much to the romance, something's missing, Merrill's as alive as, say, Orana or Bodhan.

[Cutlass Jack]

From my experience, Apostate Mages are incapable of warming their own tents.