110 réponses à ce sujet

[Thrombin]

Mass Relays don't just propel you at speed, they create a corridor (a wormhole, basically) through space-time which provides a short cut between the source and the destination. There are no hazardous materials in this corridor so no chance of hitting anything untoward.

However, the transit isn't necessarily instantaneous. The Omega 4 relay took hours to propel the Normandy to the Collector base.

Regards

Julian

[Almostfaceman]

I think I remember somebody mentioning the possibility that this "corridor" created between relays shunts mass. There has to be some kind of explanation since there is mass between relays to run into - gases, small asteroids, etc.

[Whatever42]

Neutrinos, on the other hand, are virtually massless and go through anything because it ignores all the atomic forces that bind matter together. It can be stopped but only if it directly impacts another particle, which is very rare considering all matter is almost entirely empty space.

[Almostfaceman]

Thrombin wrote...

Mass Relays don't just propel you at speed, they create a corridor (a wormhole, basically) through space-time which provides a short cut between the source and the destination. There are no hazardous materials in this corridor so no chance of hitting anything untoward.

However, the transit isn't necessarily instantaneous. The Omega 4 relay took hours to propel the Normandy to the Collector base.

Regards

Julian

There may be exceptions, but according to the codex it's instantaneous.

Mass Relays are mass transit devices scattered throughout the galaxy, usually located within star systems. They form an enormous network allowing interstellar travel. Hailed as one of the greatest achievements of the extinct Protheans, a mass relay can transport starships instantaneously to another relay within the network, allowing for journeys that would otherwise take years or even decades with only FTL drives.

Edit - added codex text and link.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 16 avril 2011 - 12:39 .

[Whatever42]

I'm not sure its a worm hole - that would be something very different than what's described and wouldn't require making objects virtually massless.

[didymos1120]

Olwydd wrote...

I also doubt most relays opperate at spans of several hundreds of lightyears or greater.

Not really the point.  The point is a significant number do, and that makes the odds of your path intersecting something, and likely several large somethings, pretty damn good.  That and even on shorter trips, there's just no way they always avoid intersecting with various planets, asteroids, etc. when, say, going from one system to another.  Like I said: you're almost always going from one relatively crowded place to another relatively crowded place, and that stuff is moving constantly. So even if the intervening corridor is largely mass-free in the additional sense of there not being much actual matter, the endpoints are a very different story.

[Thrombin]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I think I remember somebody mentioning the possibility that this "corridor" created between relays shunts mass. There has to be some kind of explanation since there is mass between relays to run into - gases, small asteroids, etc.

The corridor doesn't go through normal space so there aren't any gases or asteroids to avoid. It's a wormhole through sub-space:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

Pretty basic sci-fi really

[didymos1120]

Thrombin wrote...

The Omega 4 relay took hours to propel the Normandy to the Collector base.

Hours? Where'd you get that from?  EDI simply says it will take a few hours until you reach the Omega-4.   You watch the transit as it happens. And yeah, there's a delay but it's still very tiny.

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 avril 2011 - 12:43 .

[Thrombin]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm not sure its a worm hole - that would be something very different than what's described and wouldn't require making objects virtually massless.

It's described as a corridor through space-time that is exactly the definition of a wormhole.

Since nobody has discovered how to create or traverse a wormhole in reality, there's no reason why creating virtually massless objects wouldn't be the way to do it.

Regards

Julian

[Thrombin]

didymos1120 wrote...
Hours? Where'd you get that from?  EDI simply says it will take a few hour until you reach the Omega-4.   You watch the transit as it happens. And yeah, there's a delay but it's still very tiny.

Ah, ok, I stand corrected

[ItsFreakinJesus]

It's science fiction. We should be happy that they at least came up with an in-game explanation on how the Mass Relays work instead of ignoring it entirely. There's going to take leeway to make sure things work the way they want it to.

[didymos1120]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

It's science fiction. We should be happy that they at least came up with an in-game explanation on how the Mass Relays work instead of ignoring it entirely.

Well, that's sort of the point: they really didn't explain them at all.

[Randy1012]

Not everything needs to be explained. The mass relays work within the context of the Mass Effect setting; that's all that matters.

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

It's science fiction. We should be happy that they at least came up with an in-game explanation on how the Mass Relays work instead of ignoring it entirely.

Well, that's sort of the point: they really didn't explain them at all.

To borrow Squee's argument: if they explained them, we would be building them in real life!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[Dave666]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

It's science fiction. We should be happy that they at least came up with an in-game explanation on how the Mass Relays work instead of ignoring it entirely.

Well, that's sort of the point: they really didn't explain them at all.

To borrow Sqee's argument: if they explained them, we would be building them in real life!

Sure we would, can you loan me some Element Zero?

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

It's science fiction. We should be happy that they at least came up with an in-game explanation on how the Mass Relays work instead of ignoring it entirely.

Well, that's sort of the point: they really didn't explain them at all.

To borrow Sqee's argument: if they explained them, we would be building them in real life!

There are degrees of "explain".  Mass relays as it stands barely get a handwave and could stand some more detail.  That's not the same as saying there must be schematics and field equations.

[Whatever42]

Well, they really don't explain jump gates in B5 either. The reason being is that such technology is so far out of our understanding that it really is just magic. Besides, not even the civilizations of the time really understand it so how much detail could they put in a codex entry?

But we're just geeks being geeks. Of course we're going to theorize how they work and wish we had better information about them. However, unless it contributes to the story, I don't know how much detail Bioware should provide.

[didymos1120]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

 Besides, not even the civilizations of the time really understand it so how much detail could they put in a codex entry?

Less than every last possible detail of their operation, but a bit more than there currently is? 

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 avril 2011 - 01:36 .

[Dave666]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Well, they really don't explain jump gates in B5 either. The reason being is that such technology is so far out of our understanding that it really is just magic. Besides, not even the civilizations of the time really understand it so how much detail could they put in a codex entry?

But we're just geeks being geeks. Of course we're going to theorize how they work and wish we had better information about them. However, unless it contributes to the story, I don't know how much detail Bioware should provide.

Agreed, its just us guys being a little bit geeky and trying to understand the story.  I'm not sure how appropriate your B5 jumpgate analogy is though.  In ME the Mass Relays were built by the Reapers and understanding them might give some insight into the Reapers and their technology.  Also if we knew one way or another how the Relays worked then inconsistencies like the Conduit could perhaps be explained.

*Edit* Also there's nothing stopping the writers from giving the player knowledge that the character doesn't have.

Modifié par Dave666, 16 avril 2011 - 01:40 .

[Whatever42]

didymos1120 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

 Besides, not even the civilizations of the time really understand it so how much detail could they put in a codex entry?

Less than every last possible detail of their operation, but a bit more than there currently is? 

Do we even know that they truly underestand how the relays theoretically work? Yes, they might have observed some things: a corridor, virtual masslessness, instananeous arrival on the other end, etc. But do we know that they know how the things even remotely work?

And as the foremost ME scholar on the planet, didymos, I expect you to instantly have the answer to that question.

[Whatever42]

Dave666 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Well, they really don't explain jump gates in B5 either. The reason being is that such technology is so far out of our understanding that it really is just magic. Besides, not even the civilizations of the time really understand it so how much detail could they put in a codex entry?

But we're just geeks being geeks. Of course we're going to theorize how they work and wish we had better information about them. However, unless it contributes to the story, I don't know how much detail Bioware should provide.

Agreed, its just us guys being a little bit geeky and trying to understand the story.  I'm not sure how appropriate your B5 jumpgate analogy is though.  In ME the Mass Relays were built by the Reapers and understanding them might give some insight into the Reapers and their technology.  Also if we knew one way or another how the Relays worked then inconsistencies like the Conduit could perhaps be explained.

*Edit* Also there's nothing stopping the writers from giving the player knowledge that the character doesn't have.

That's a point. But in ME2, they would have only accelerated research into the relays for 2 years.

It's my impression (feel free to argue the point) that the galactic civilizations are pretty damn lazy and stagnant. That's why humanity is causing so much trouble. The Turians are all; "like, whoa, they innovated with tactics! You can do that??" And the Asari don't seem to have any interest in researching the relays (according to our bartender matriarch who wanted the asari to build their own).

Ultimately, of course, even if Bioware did give us a more detailed codex entry, it would have to be all technobabble "we create a static warp shell and then fold space-time into a pretzel and then put our left foot in and shake it all about and we arrive".  Not sure people would be happier about that than using bio-synthetic fusion to restore Shepard's neural pathways.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 16 avril 2011 - 01:50 .

[didymos1120]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Do we even know that they truly underestand how the relays theoretically work? Yes, they might have observed some things: a corridor, virtual masslessness, instananeous arrival on the other end, etc. But do we know that they know how the things even remotely work?

Uh, no.  But they could at least give us just enough information to resolve the "Well, why don't they hit stuff?" issue, is all I'm saying.  As it stands, the way they work in-game and as described in the novels seemingly doesn't quite jibe with description in the Codex. But at the same time the Codex is also so vague about them that it's difficult to tell if there actually is a discrepancy or not.  To me, these sorts of situations are a good indication of when a fictional setting is being too sparing with the detail.  Especially when there doesn't seem to be any particular story need to hide things.

[Almostfaceman]

didymos1120 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Do we even know that they truly underestand how the relays theoretically work? Yes, they might have observed some things: a corridor, virtual masslessness, instananeous arrival on the other end, etc. But do we know that they know how the things even remotely work?

Uh, no.  But they could at least give us just enough information to resolve the "Well, why don't they hit stuff?" issue, is all I'm saying.  As it stands, the way they work in-game and as described in the novels seemingly doesn't quite jibe with description in the Codex. But at the same time the Codex is also so vague about them that it's difficult to tell if there actually is a discrepancy or not.  To me, these sorts of situations are a good indication of when a fictional setting is being too sparing with the detail.  Especially when there doesn't seem to be any particular story need to hide things.

Us Nerd-Geek-Techno Boys:  But dammit Dev, how do you leave the frackin' Mass Relays so... unexplained?  You're evil!  How do you sleep at night?

Dev: On a pile of money with lots of beautiful women.

[Dave666]

Arcian wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Are they simply fancy versions of catapults, or are they teleporters?

This doesn't really prove or disprove anything, but in development Mass Relays were called "Phase Gates" (and IIRC, one codex entry refers to them by that name). That gives some manner of hint to how they might actually work.

Yeah, I'd come across that before, but given that they changed it before it was put into the game I'm not sure whether or not it has relevance.  To be perfectly honest, it almost seems that the writers origionally had an idea for how they would work then changed half of it and now we're left with two halves that don't quite 'mesh'.

Modifié par Dave666, 16 avril 2011 - 02:11 .