230 réponses à ce sujet

[Emperor Iaius I]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

She's not that smart. If she was left to fend for herself in the city she'd be dead in a week, judging from banters.

That has nothing to do with intelligence.

And I don't know how much smartness you can attribute to following the directions of a demon, it isn't like she came up with it herself.

She's the most powerful mage in the game. That takes smartness.

I'll agree with you on the first bit, since street smarts are a matter of experience, rather than intelligence. There's nothing to suggest she wouldn't learn. She's much more "with it" in the subsequent acts.

But for the second, I don't think that claim is fair. There's no way to determine that because her abilities are entirely a gameplay mechanic. If built poorly, she could be the weakest mage in the game.

[mesmerizedish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also, if you think about it, why would the elves have become reclusive from Tevinter if they weren't immortal? I don't see any reason why. Of course, I'm open to ideas. Who knows if they were immortal or not..

I don't know about you, but I'd be a little wary of mingling with a group who practice wholesale murder and enslavement of my peeps.

[Torax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Torax wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Do Thedas elves have longer lifespans than humans?

They used to be immortal but was corrupted when mixed with humans.
It is said that Dalish particially gain longer life spans for each new generation but will most likely never be immortal again.
City Elves live as long as humans.

At least that's what i remember from Origins.

The Elves 'Believe" they were immortal once. The Imperium says that wasn't the case.

"As for the elves, their understanding of their own religion is incomplete. The whole truth was lost along with Arlathan and their immortality -- much of their lore was kept by a tradition of apprenticeship, handed down from the knowledgeable to the young, and this relied on the fact that the knowledgeable were eternal. Slaves also had less opportunity to spread their lore, so the sudden aging of the knowledgeable meant that much of this information was simply gone after several generations. This, of course, is their belief: the ancient Imperium maintained that the elves were never immortal to begin with, and that their lore was lost simply because the Imperium forbade its teaching."

Source

I don't think Tevinter really knows for certain. Elves have been on Thedas forever, and then humans came. It's just a Tevinter belief regarding Arlathan elves' immortality. As for the lore, that's just abhorrent. Banning the teaching of it. I realize they were slaves and all, but still.  

Also, if you think about it, why would the elves have become reclusive from Tevinter if they weren't immortal? I don't see any reason why. Of course, I'm open to ideas. Who knows if they were immortal or not..

You'd have to find the Dreadwolf and ask him:wizard:

[Emperor Iaius I]

He's talking about the elves of Arlathan and how they withdrew because they were "quickening."

[TEWR]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also, if you think about it, why would the elves have become reclusive from Tevinter if they weren't immortal? I don't see any reason why. Of course, I'm open to ideas. Who knows if they were immortal or not..

I don't know about you, but I'd be a little wary of mingling with a group who practice wholesale murder and enslavement of my peeps.

lol .

didn't they start being reclusive before the whole enslavement dealio?

[mesmerizedish]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

But for the second, I don't think that claim is fair. There's no way to determine that because her abilities are entirely a gameplay mechanic. If built poorly, she could be the weakest mage in the game.

I don't think you can separate gameplay mechanics from the story. It's one of the reasons why it's so stupid that NPCs follow different rules than the party.

All I know is that Merrill soloed the Marethari Pride Demon from 75% to 0. Ostensibly, that's "a gameplay mechanic." So she couldn't actually do that? But... she did.

[TEWR]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

He's talking about the elves of Arlathan and how they withdrew because they were "quickening."

yup. B I N G O and bingo was his name-o.


I'm unusually perky today

[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

It has something to do with smartness.

So then Anders and Orsino are very smart too?

If you're using "smart" to mean something apart from "intelligence," then I agree with you.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 16 avril 2011 - 01:18 .

[Torax]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also, if you think about it, why would the elves have become reclusive from Tevinter if they weren't immortal? I don't see any reason why. Of course, I'm open to ideas. Who knows if they were immortal or not..

I don't know about you, but I'd be a little wary of mingling with a group who practice wholesale murder and enslavement of my peeps.

Actually on that. Considering before they were Magisters they managed to take Elven Magic Users prisoners in the fade to teach them how to use magic. The dreamers that later became the Magisters forced Elven slaves within the fade to show them how to use Lyrium. Showed them what the fade was. Probably introduced them to spirits and so on by force. So once they became Magisters the Elves would fear them 2 fold. Not safe within the fade or in real life. But safer in Real World cause you could fight back at least. The catch was by then the Magisters met the Old Gods and learned newer magics to defeat them.

Modifié par Torax, 16 avril 2011 - 01:20 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

But for the second, I don't think that claim is fair. There's no way to determine that because her abilities are entirely a gameplay mechanic. If built poorly, she could be the weakest mage in the game.

I don't think you can separate gameplay mechanics from the story. It's one of the reasons why it's so stupid that NPCs follow different rules than the party.

All I know is that Merrill soloed the Marethari Pride Demon from 75% to 0. Ostensibly, that's "a gameplay mechanic." So she couldn't actually do that? But... she did.

You have to, because it's not verifiable or repeatable. It's different in every circumstance. You can't say that she solo'd it because every other person's experience can be different.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Do Thedas elves have longer lifespans than humans?

No. And city elves tend to have shorter lifespans.

[mesmerizedish]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

You have to, because it's not verifiable or repeatable. It's different in every circumstance. You can't say that she solo'd it because every other person's experience can be different.

I can't say that she would, no. But I can say that she could. Because she did. And if she can in my game, then she can according to the story. If Morrigan's pregnancy were a gameplay mechanic, it'd be the same way. She might not get pregnant in your game, but I can still judge her based on her ability to get pregnant.

[Herr Uhl]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

It has something to do with smartness.

So then Anders and Orsino are very smart too?

If you're using "smart" to mean something apart from "intelligence," then I agree with you.

You don't have to be intelligent to be smart, nor do you automatically become smart by being intelligent.

If you fall into the water from a dockside you're a dunce. No matter how inexperienced you want to say she is, unless height is a new thing to her too. Her wit and cunning is about as sharp as a ladle too.

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I can't say that she would, no. But I can say that she could. Because she did. And if she can in my game, then she can according to the story. If Morrigan's pregnancy were a gameplay mechanic, it'd be the same way. She might not get pregnant in your game, but I can still judge her based on her ability to get pregnant.

This sounds very weird when taken out of context.

[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

You don't have to be intelligent to be smart, nor do you automatically become smart by being intelligent.

If you fall into the water from a dockside you're a dunce. No matter how inexperienced you want to say she is, unless height is a new thing to her too. Her wit and cunning is about as sharp as a ladle too.

Yes. You're using "smart" differently than I would, but I've already agreed with you

[EDIT] @hoorayforicecream: it was the first thing that sprang to mind. It didn't even occur to me that it might be taken as anything else until you pointed it out

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 16 avril 2011 - 01:29 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Falling into the water makes one a dunce? Why not just careless? That's unreasonably judgmental.

[phantomdragoness]

I don't HATE Merrill...she just makes me want to tear my hair out. Granted, she thinks she's helping her people, which is admirable. But there are different ways to do so - ways that do not include demons and ruining her own life. It sucks that in order to be a good friend, you have to be her rival - otherwise, you'll have to kill her entire clan...which is just HORRIBLE.

[Apollo Starflare]

Merrill is one of my favourite companions in any BioWare game. Everything from the accent to her personal quests. People seem quick to attribute her 'fish out of water' cluelessness in regards to all thinks Kirkwall (and Shem) as well as her isolatorary nature and overal shyness/cuteness to a lack of intelligence or an otherwise simple nature. I just can't agree with that, including what we see of her in Origins there is plenty to suggest she is a bright and friendly person amongst her own people with a keen enough intelligence to warrant a wise Keeper like Marethari placing her trust in her for the future. Plus having been in the position of country bumpkin moving to the big city I can fully sympathise with some elements of her lifestyle there.

Obviously the most talked about part of her character (other than her glorious Welsh accent ) is her story involving the eluvian. While it is legitimate to either support her or challenge her belief in regards to it (I chose the latter in fact and thought it played out beautifully) I don't think her, at times, stubborn desire to go through with her plan to deal with the demon reflects negatively on her (at least, certainly not wholely negatively). Over the course of her personal quests her willpower, courage, self sacrifice, and other positive traits are all displayed as she goes about doing what she thinks is best for her Clan. It is a measure of how strongly her character comes across (to me, and others) that despite having seen deals with demons go wrong time and time again, and the fact the whole thing sounds like an incredibly bad idea, she still convinces you (or comes close to in my case) that she can pull it off.

So yeah, I love Merrill. Although I can understand why some folks might not share my opinion.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Does she have fans outside the Merrill thread that I haven't met? The guys in there have always seemed quite pleasant to me.

Well, you all like Merrill. If they came across people who didn't like Merrill for whatever reason, they might be less cordial.

Merrill isn't my favorite character or love interest, but I'd happily tear someone's throat out with my teeth* during an argument about her.

The Merrill thread itself is very polite to people who dislike the character.


*In internet terms

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Does she have fans outside the Merrill thread that I haven't met? The guys in there have always seemed quite pleasant to me.

Well, you all like Merrill. If they came across people who didn't like Merrill for whatever reason, they might be less cordial.

Merrill isn't my favorite character or love interest, but I'd happily tear someone's throat out with my teeth* during an argument about her.

The Merrill thread itself is very polite to people who dislike the character.


*In internet terms

Maria Caliban used Crunch!
It's a critical hit!
It's super effective!
Person arguing about Merrill fainted!
Maria Caliban gained 738 experience points!
Maria Caliban leveled up!

[Tinxa]

I like Merrill, I just don't get her companion quest:
How exactly would the mirror, even if fixed and working like it's supposed to, "save" her clan??? Why did the clan needed saving in the first place??? Pol running into the creature at the sight of her was also odd, even if keeper told everyone she was a blood mage and at the end you basically kill her whole clan and not much is said about it...

I was just confused every step of the way.

[Herr Uhl]

Tinxa wrote...

I like Merrill, I just don't get her companion quest:
How exactly would the mirror, even if fixed and working like it's supposed to, "save" her clan??? Why did the clan needed saving in the first place??? Pol running into the creature at the sight of her was also odd, even if keeper told everyone she was a blood mage and at the end you basically kill her whole clan and not much is said about it...

I was just confused every step of the way.

I never thought that "saving her clan" was the intent. Possibly Tamlen in the beginning, but she ought to have given up hope by that point.

[TEWR]

Tinxa wrote...

I like Merrill, I just don't get her companion quest:
How exactly would the mirror, even if fixed and working like it's supposed to, "save" her clan??? Why did the clan needed saving in the first place???  

I don't know if save was the right word for her to use, but it definitely would've helped the clan and all elves.

Pol running into the creature at the sight of her was also odd, even if keeper told everyone she was a blood mage and at the end you basically kill her whole clan and not much is said about it...

I was just confused every step of the way.

Marethari thought she was helping by saying Merrill would bring back the taint from a tainted (to Marethari anyway. it was cleansed and she told the clan this repeatedly) mirror, in the hopes that Merrill would return. And even if the mirror was still tainted, ceasing contact with it would not keep the taint from spreading. So... Marethari was an idiot for that.

And if you take responsibility for Merrill's actions, you don't have to kill them unless you bring Merrill back to Sundermount. I find it completely unforgivable that the clan hates Merrill and when you try to tell them that she was possessed and needed to be killed, they just think Merrill killed her. Isn't it the clan's job to kill a possessed Keeper? Good job on that one Mahariel clan, blaming Merrill for the Keeper's actions....

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 avril 2011 - 02:04 .

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't know if save was the right word for her to use, but it definitely would've helped the clan and all elves.

How?

[Mr.House]

I like Merrill.