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[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't know if save was the right word for her to use, but it definitely would've helped the clan and all elves.

How?

Because it's a piece of their past. The Dalish are all about reclaiming what Arlathan lost.

[EDIT] You might disagree that history is important or helpful, but that's the view of Merrill and of the Dalish.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 16 avril 2011 - 02:06 .

[Maria Caliban]

Tinxa wrote...

I like Merrill, I just don't get her companion quest:
How exactly would the mirror, even if fixed and working like it's supposed to, "save" her clan???

It probably wouldn't. Merrill obsession isn't healthy or rational.

Why did the clan needed saving in the first place???

Her clan doesn't. Her people do.

The Dalish are likely going to go the way of the Dodo if things don't improve. They can't found their own land and as human populations increase, they'll lose their mobility and be aggressively hunted.

Something needs to change for the Dalish to survive.

Pol running into the creature at the sight of her was also odd, even if keeper told everyone she was a blood mage and at the end you basically kill her whole clan and not much is said about it...

I was just confused every step of the way.

Thankfully, the fixed the Merrill bug so she'll at least respond to the slaughter of her clan now.

[Emperor Iaius I]

The clan is called Sabrae. Mahariel is just one particular person's surname.

Save is perfectly the right word to use. As she notes, the Dalish are losing themselves. The Keepers are preserving, not restoring--and what they preserve is the lore of the Dales, of Halamshiral. Arlathan may well be forgotten: and that's what Merrill seeks to find, because it's a goal that becomes more and more elusive with time.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't know if save was the right word for her to use, but it definitely would've helped the clan and all elves.

How?

it's a piece of lost elven lore. How wouldn't it help the elves? Specifically the Dalish whose task it is to reclaim the lost lore and remember it?

[TEWR]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The clan is called Sabrae. Mahariel is just one particular person's surname.

Save is perfectly the right word to use. As she notes, the Dalish are losing themselves. The Keepers are preserving, not restoring--and what they preserve is the lore of the Dales, of Halamshiral. Arlathan may well be forgotten: and that's what Merrill seeks to find, because it's a goal that becomes more and more elusive with time.

meh Mahariel came first to my mind. I thought the DE's father was the former keeper.

So save is the right word. With every piece of Arlathan lore and history they obtain, it's almost as if they're moving closer to finding a home.

The good news is that Alistair is trying to make things up to the Dalish elves for what happened, if you were a DE and picked that boon.

[Herr Uhl]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't know if save was the right word for her to use, but it definitely would've helped the clan and all elves.

How?

Because it's a piece of their past. The Dalish are all about reclaiming what Arlathan lost.

[EDIT] You might disagree that history is important or helpful, but that's the view of Merrill and of the Dalish.

Given that Mahrethari is very much against reclaiming this specific thing, Dalish don't have a uniform view on things either.

If it turned out to be a hellmouth (hypothetically speaking), how would that have helped the Dalish?

[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Given that Mahrethari is very much against reclaiming this specific thing, Dalish don't have a uniform view on things either.

If it turned out to be a hellmouth (hypothetically speaking), how would that have helped the Dalish?

Marethari is not the Dalish. Marethari is a threatened, prideful fool.

The "what if it's a hellmout?!" argument can be said about anything. It's so general as to be meaningless.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't know if save was the right word for her to use, but it definitely would've helped the clan and all elves.

How?

Because it's a piece of their past. The Dalish are all about reclaiming what Arlathan lost.

[EDIT] You might disagree that history is important or helpful, but that's the view of Merrill and of the Dalish.

Given that Mahrethari is very much against reclaiming this specific thing, Dalish don't have a uniform view on things either.

If it turned out to be a hellmouth (hypothetically speaking), how would that have helped the Dalish?

Marethari's an idiot regarding the Eluvian. that's obviously just my opinion. though I've seen a few other people on other threads who agree. My personal reasons for why she's an idiot are on page 2 if you wanna take a gander

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 avril 2011 - 02:18 .

[Herr Uhl]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Marethari is not the Dalish. Marethari is a threatened, prideful fool.

Neither is Merril. But she is one of them, which shows that there isn't a consensus.

The "what if it's a hellmout?!" argument can be said about anything. It's so general as to be meaningless.

Yes, risks be damned!

[Emperor Iaius I]

Marethari freed a pride demon. Marethari kept her entire clan within range of both a human settlement and a demon for 7 years. Marethari was completely incompetent.

edit: As far as the risks go, Merrill spent years studying magic and Dalish lore. She did all she possibly could to mitigate, including winning the support of very powerful people who would have her back. Come now. How is what she did any different than all the nonsense Hawke deals with on a regular basis, and all the demons he contacts?

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 16 avril 2011 - 02:21 .

[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Neither is Merril. But she is one of them, which shows that there isn't a consensus.

Yours is a rather strict view of consensus. Perfect unanimity is not a requirement.

Yes, risks be damned!

And what are the risks? Let's see... none that we know of. The elves of Arlathan used the eluvians for ages sans incident. It's been cleansed of the curse that killed Tamlen and infected the Warden. The gains in terms of insight into elven history infinitely outmatch the risks of being not entirely certain what will happen.

[TEWR]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Marethari freed a pride demon. Marethari kept her entire clan within range of both a human settlement and a demon for 7 years. Marethari was completely incompetent.

well the clan did lose their halla mysteriously, which makes it impossible to move the Aravels. She freed a demon that was forever trapped alone, so that part I agree with.

But without halla, they were stuck there until other clans helped them out.

[Herr Uhl]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

edit: As far as the risks go, Merrill spent years studying magic and Dalish lore. She did all she possibly could to mitigate, including winning the support of very powerful people who would have her back. Come now. How is what she did any different than all the nonsense Hawke deals with on a regular basis, and all the demons he contacts?

She was forced to seek you up. If she could she would have stayed with her clan and repaired the mirror.

I don't remember my Hawke contacting or making deals with any demons. Odd.

[Maria Caliban]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Save is perfectly the right word to use. As she notes, the Dalish are losing themselves. The Keepers are preserving, not restoring--and what they preserve is the lore of the Dales, of Halamshiral. Arlathan may well be forgotten: and that's what Merrill seeks to find, because it's a goal that becomes more and more elusive with time.

Recovering lost lore might be useful, but restoring the eluvian wouldn't save anything.

According to Merrill, it's a way for elves to communicate. For it to have any functional use, there would need to be another one in working continuation, and even then, all it would allow you to do is communicate with whomever is on the other side.

Merrill doesn't seem to know about the 'magical portal' bit at all. Merethari seems to know something about the eluvians being deliberately shut down but never goes into detail.

Merrill specifically states that she's going to save her people with the eluvian when it seems obvious that fixing the eluvian wouldn't do much to help her people at all.

[Adynata]

What bugged me about Merrill was that she threw such a hissy fit when I wouldn't give her the tool to fix her stupid death mirror. I played the Dalish elf origin in DAO and I knew what that mirror was capable of. Shriek Tamlen wandered into my camp, not Merrill's. So I don't give her the tool and she starts flying off the handle about me being like any other Shem and how I can't keep a Dalish artifact. I knew right then that she was the "witch" Fenris always calls her.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merethari seems to know something about the eluvians being deliberately shut down but never goes into detail.

I believed her to be making that bit up. The Tevinters used the eluvians after they sacked Arlathan, so I don't think they were "shut down," unless it was to prevent the Tevinters from using them.

[Tinxa]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Tinxa wrote...

I like Merrill, I just don't get her companion quest:
How exactly would the mirror, even if fixed and working like it's supposed to, "save" her clan???

It probably wouldn't. Merrill obsession isn't healthy or rational.

Why did the clan needed saving in the first place???

Her clan doesn't. Her people do.

The Dalish are likely going to go the way of the Dodo if things don't improve. They can't found their own land and as human populations increase, they'll lose their mobility and be aggressively hunted.

Something needs to change for the Dalish to survive.

Pol running into the creature at the sight of her was also odd, even if keeper told everyone she was a blood mage and at the end you basically kill her whole clan and not much is said about it...

I was just confused every step of the way.

Thankfully, the fixed the Merrill bug so she'll at least respond to the slaughter of her clan now.

I don't know... saying she was obsessed with the mirror (while true) just seems like a handwave for all the odd things in her quests, I just miss something more about her story. From all the companons it just didn't make much sense what exactly she wanted or why and what her overall goal was(the troubles of the Dalish are never discussed, all she says is vague lines that she wants to "save" and "help" the clan), seems she knows it was a communication device and every city had one but what good would a working mirror do her??? just seems a lot of sacrifices on her part when she's not even convinced that the mirror does anything worthwhile (even something unlikely like bringing Arlathan back or something) and at the end of it all you don't even get the damn thing working

Oh that was a bug??? I didn't know that

[Emperor Iaius I]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

edit: As far as the risks go, Merrill spent years studying magic and Dalish lore. She did all she possibly could to mitigate, including winning the support of very powerful people who would have her back. Come now. How is what she did any different than all the nonsense Hawke deals with on a regular basis, and all the demons he contacts?

She was forced to seek you up. If she could she would have stayed with her clan and repaired the mirror.

I don't remember my Hawke contacting or making deals with any demons. Odd.

You mustn't have left the Gallows if you never had contact with a demon.

And let's not speculate what she could/would have done. We can save that for the fanfiction.

We can only go from what we know.

Maria Caliban wrote...
Merrill specifically states that she's going to save her people with the eluvian when it seems obvious that fixing the eluvian wouldn't do much to help her people at all.

Nor would finding some scattered text somewhere, but it's the sum total of it all that will restore her people. She's doing her part.

Adynata wrote...

What bugged me about Merrill was that she threw such a hissy fit when I wouldn't give her the tool to fix her stupid death mirror. I played the Dalish elf origin in DAO and I knew what that mirror was capable of. Shriek Tamlen wandered into my camp, not Merrill's. So I don't give her the tool and she starts flying off the handle about me being like any other Shem and how I can't keep a Dalish artifact. I knew right then that she was the "witch" Fenris always calls her.

You must have missed the part where the first thing she did was purify the mirror shard.

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merethari seems to know something about the eluvians being deliberately shut down but never goes into detail.

I believed her to be making that bit up. The Tevinters used the eluvians after they sacked Arlathan, so I don't think they were "shut down," unless it was to prevent the Tevinters from using them.

I like the Anvil of the Void. It's a magical thing that's history and use was clearly given and you understand what the good and the bad of it is.

The eluvian and the idol are both blanks. Incredibly important blanks. Though the eluvian is better handled though because it's enough that Merrill is sure its important and Merethari is sure it's dangerous.

Anyways, I don't think Arlathan was homogenous. The Dalish act as though there was a single, continent-spanning kingdom with a single religion, but that doesn't strike me as realistic.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like the Anvil of the Void. It's a magical thing that's history and use was clearly given and you understand what the good and the bad of it is.

The eluvian and the idol are both blanks. Incredibly important blanks. Though the eluvian is better handled though because it's enough that Merrill is sure its important and Merethari is sure it's dangerous.

Anyways, I don't think Arlathan was homogenous. The Dalish act as though there was a single, continent-spanning kingdom with a single religion, but that doesn't strike me as realistic.

I don't think the eluvian is that blank. There are blanks, yes, but we have a fuzzy picture of what they are and what they do. And I like that the idol is such a blank. On the one hand, maybe it is just possessed like Varric suggests, but given its association with the wonderfully-mysterious Primeval Thaig, I'm hoping for something much deeper, darker, and more mysterious.

Tevinter was a single continent-spanning empire with a single religion. Why couldn't Arlathan have been the same? Of course it wasn't always so, but I think it's perfectly believable that the elves were united under a single government at the height of their power.

Anyone else think Arlathan draws a lot of inspiration from Old Ehlnofey, from the Elder Scrolls series?

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merethari seems to know something about the eluvians being deliberately shut down but never goes into detail.

I believed her to be making that bit up. The Tevinters used the eluvians after they sacked Arlathan, so I don't think they were "shut down," unless it was to prevent the Tevinters from using them.

I like the Anvil of the Void. It's a magical thing that's history and use was clearly given and you understand what the good and the bad of it is.

The eluvian and the idol are both blanks. Incredibly important blanks. Though the eluvian is better handled though because it's enough that Merrill is sure its important and Merethari is sure it's dangerous.

Anyways, I don't think Arlathan was homogenous. The Dalish act as though there was a single, continent-spanning kingdom with a single religion, but that doesn't strike me as realistic.

The chantry would disagree with you. And then shove a sword of mercy through your heart for being a "heathen" because this is what they're trying to do.

Want everyone to worship one religion? Kill the people who don't want to worship your religion! You're saving them from themselves!

but really they're all

[Elessie]

I really did -try- to like her. I do like her VA (I watch Torchwood). In one of my playthroughs, I dragged her around the entire game, hoping she would grow on me. She didn't. I still can't stand her, and not in a good, love to hate her kind of way. It's in a 'wow I wish I'd brought someone cooler instead' kind of way. I'm happiest leaving her in her hovel and never talking to her. And that's sad, but I don't think there's any way to fix it. I wish I could see in her what other people do.

[TEWR]

what didn't you like about her Elessie, out of curiosity?

[Herr Uhl]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

You mustn't have left the Gallows if you never had contact with a demon.

There is a clear difference between coming in contact with a demon and contacting one.

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

And let's not speculate what she could/would have done. We can save that for the fanfiction.

We can only go from what we know.

You're attributing something that was forced upon her as her merit. I don't see it that way.

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Tevinter was a single continent-spanning empire with a single religion.

I also find that unlikely. The Tevinter magisters may have worshiped the old gods, but we know there were other religions in Thedas.