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[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Tevinter was a single continent-spanning empire with a single religion.

I also find that unlikely. The Tevinter magisters may have worshiped the old gods, but we know there were other religions in Thedas.

Dwarves.


who thinks Dwarves could at one time cast magic? Also, imagine the field day the Chantry would have if the Dwarves suddenly could cast magic (again).

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Tevinter was a single continent-spanning empire with a single religion.

I also find that unlikely. The Tevinter magisters may have worshiped the old gods, but we know there were other religions in Thedas.

Then maybe we're mixing up what "single religion" means. Tevinter did have an established "state religion," just as Rome did. Not everyone under Tevinter or Roman rule followed the state religion, but it was known across their territory, and practiced by the state and probably most of the population.

I don't think any of the elves have suggested that something more than this is meant when they talk about Arlathan's religion.

[HighMoon]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

And I don't know how much smartness you can attribute to following the directions of a demon, it isn't like she came up with it herself.

She's the most powerful mage in the game. That takes smartness.

I doubt she is more powerful than Orsino, Marethari, Feynriel or Flemeth.

[mesmerizedish]

Golden-Rose wrote...

I doubt she is more powerful than Orsino, Marethari, Feynriel or Flemeth.

Did you miss the bit where she soloed Marethari Pride Demon? It led to interesting talk about me judging Morrigan based on her womb.

[Emperor Iaius I]

She was forced to leave. She wasn't forced to be with Hawke for seven years, talk with him, and get him to support her. That was her doing.

[LobselVith8]

Herr Uhl wrote...

She's not that smart. If she was left to fend for herself in the city she'd be dead in a week, judging from banters.

I don't think it's accurate to judge her intelligence based on her culture shock in a human city considering she's Dalish. This bothers me about the criticism of Merrill because people do it a lot in real life, where people equate her difficulty in adjusting to a foreign enviornment or her introverted nature and assume she lacks intelligence because of her social skills or that she is out of place because her culture is entirely different than Kirkwall. It doesn't make any sense to me. Culture shock =/= a lack of intelligence.

We see Merrill's intelligence demonstrated when she's able to tell whether a person is possesses based on their blood because she has a knowledge of magic, her proficiency with blood magic for several years, her assessment that all spirits are dangerous, and her reconstruction of two thousand year old elven technology based on information that she was able to extrapolate from a shard and the lore she gathered.

Herr Uhl wrote...

And I don't know how much smartness you can attribute to following the directions of a demon, it isn't like she came up with it herself.

According to WoG, she was rebuilding the Eluvian based on information she extrapolated from the shard and lore she gathered. I think you mean her knowledge of blood magic. She dealt with Audacity to learn the craft in order to cleanse the Eluvian, but she also gathered lore in order to build the mirror.

[Elessie]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

what didn't you like about her Elessie, out of curiosity?

Well, she sort of came across to me as a 13 year old, which was off-putting, and guaranteed I would never try the romance.  She sort of has a teenage 'rebel against authority' thing going on in her relationship with Marethari.  She thinks she knows better than everyone else.  This could be fine if done in a convincing way, but for most of the game you're presented with her not knowing much about anything.  So once again, reminds me of a teenager.  After all that, her insistance on helping people who really, really don't want her help just ends up irritating me, and I can't seem to empathize with her at all.  I realize the rivalry path is there for not agreeing with her, but it makes me feel like I'm babysitting a kid with the potential to kill a bunch of people.      

[AstraDrakkar]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes her. I can't stand her! It's probably because i resent any female character who is portrayed as an airhead that has to be saved by someone.

[mesmerizedish]

AstraDrakkar wrote...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes her. I can't stand her! It's probably because i resent any female character who is portrayed as an airhead that has to be saved by someone.

But she's not. If you take her friendship path, I think it's made very clear that she's more than capable of handling herself. In fact, all the tragedy of her arc is a result of other people trying to "save her."

[Jorrkit]

*stealthily draws Murder Knife*
*creeps up behind OP*

[TEWR]

Elessie wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

what didn't you like about her Elessie, out of curiosity?

Well, she sort of came across to me as a 13 year old, which was off-putting, and guaranteed I would never try the romance.  She sort of has a teenage 'rebel against authority' thing going on in her relationship with Marethari.  She thinks she knows better than everyone else.  This could be fine if done in a convincing way, but for most of the game you're presented with her not knowing much about anything.  So once again, reminds me of a teenager.  After all that, her insistance on helping people who really, really don't want her help just ends up irritating me, and I can't seem to empathize with her at all.  I realize the rivalry path is there for not agreeing with her, but it makes me feel like I'm babysitting a kid with the potential to kill a bunch of people.      

fair enough. I won't try to force you to change your viewpoint (because that's up to you), but upon closer examination Merrill does know better than everyone else and Marethari thought she knew better (while Marethari wasn't unfounded in her belief of knowing better at first, she was too stubborn about it). Merrill studies various magical subjects regarding the Eluvian.

Marethari tells the rest of the clan that Merrill will bring back the taint. However, Merrill cleansed the mirror through blood magic and repeatedly told the clan this. She tells you that regular magic wasn't strong enough to cleanse it, and blood magic was the only way. And the only way for her to learn how to appropriately use blood magic was from the demon on Sundermount, who offered to teach her. She never sought him out. Many people might argue she could've read a book on blood magic, but she would've had to go to Kirkwall to do that. And Kirkwall is a shem city that as we've seen doesn't treat elves very well.

Through Marethari's comments about the mirror, she hoped for Merrill to return home. But these comments about Merrill only served to place fear in the clan, specifically Pol. These comments and Pol's actions caused Pol's death by the Varterral.

Finally, Marethari took the demon into her being saying the demon would've used the completed Eluvian to escape it's prison and possess Merrill. However, Morrigan told us that the Eluvian links to a place beyond both the mortal realm and the fade. And remember, Morrigan also did extensive research on the Eluvian.

*stealthily draws Murder Knife*
*creeps up behind OP*

oops I seemed to have dropped my sharper and more murderous knife in front of you. I sure hope you don't use it on people who are mean to Merrill for stupid reasons

NOTE: there have been no people who hate Merrill for stupid reasons that I've seen.... yet.

But she's not. If you take her friendship path, I think it's made very clear that she's more than capable of handling herself. In fact, all the tragedy of her arc is a result of other people trying to "save her."

exactly. To me rivalry is actually worse for Merrill. She came so close to finishing the mirror, which posed no threat to anyone. Well... "only if you're standing under it". She destroys the mirror due to the Keeper's.... arrogance? idiocy? I'm not sure what the appropriate word would be. I understand the Keeper cared for Merrill, but she acted as if Merrill knew nothing.

I guess Marethari never heard of the student surpassing the master.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 avril 2011 - 05:20 .

[Jorrkit]

Oh, the reasons don't concern me. I just see the hate and I want to kill, kill, kill.

[TEWR]

Jorrkit wrote...

Oh, the reasons don't concern me. I just see the hate and I want to kill, kill, kill.

I know, it's just unfathomable how anyone could hate someone like Merrill.


seriously, how does someone not laugh with this conversation?


Merrill: Oh Hawke, I hope I didn't worry you...
Hawke: Merrill is there anything that doesn't worry you? Flowers and bunnies maybe?
Merrill: But what if they're poison flowers? Or... or.... dire bunnies?

IMerrill so much.

[Sabariel]

I don't hate Merrill, but I don't much like her either. Physically... she just creeps me out (as all the elves except Fenris do). She looked too young for any of my Hawkes of either gender so I didn't even touch the romance aspect. I just... found her creepy in every way. Sorry Merrill.

[mesmerizedish]

Sabariel wrote...

I don't hate Merrill, but I don't much like her either. Physically... she just creeps me out (as all the elves except Fenris do). She looked too young for any of my Hawkes of either gender so I didn't even touch the romance aspect. I just... found her creepy in every way. Sorry Merrill.

/unfriend

[TEWR]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I don't hate Merrill, but I don't much like her either. Physically... she just creeps me out (as all the elves except Fenris do). She looked too young for any of my Hawkes of either gender so I didn't even touch the romance aspect. I just... found her creepy in every way. Sorry Merrill.

/unfriend

ishmaeltheforsaken if I was drinking anything my laptop would've been covered in it. But now I want to friend you for making me laugh so hard that had I been drinking something, well, I wouldn't be drinking it anymore.

[Elessie]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
fair enough. I won't try to force you to change your viewpoint (because that's up to you), but upon closer examination Merrill does know better than everyone else and Marethari thought she knew better (while Marethari wasn't unfounded in her belief of knowing better at first, she was too stubborn about it). Merrill studies various magical subjects regarding the Eluvian.

Can you pardon me if I don't buy any information Merril gets from the demon?  Even if the Eluvian does nothing bad, and works just like in Witch Hunt, I don't see how that will restore their history.

I don't actually want to argue about her, so I should probably just stop talking about it.  But I do want to say one thing.  It is totally possible that Merril is right, and that she can handle herself.  But we never get to find out.  Marethari ninjas that chance.  Maybe Merril is right, maybe she is wrong.  We don't actually get to see it. 

I might have warmed to her if you got to see some kind of result after she breaks the mirror.  For instance, you can tell her to help the people of the alienage.  If you got to see some indication that she did help them, earning the love and respect from them that her clan didn't give her, then I'd start to think there was something to her after all.  I think I might be starting to ramble so I really will stop now.  =P

[Sabariel]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I don't hate Merrill, but I don't much like her either. Physically... she just creeps me out (as all the elves except Fenris do). She looked too young for any of my Hawkes of either gender so I didn't even touch the romance aspect. I just... found her creepy in every way. Sorry Merrill.

/unfriend

Don't you mean "ishmaeltheforsaken Rivalry +50"?

[TEWR]

Elessie wrote...


Can you pardon me if I don't buy any information Merril gets from the demon?  Even if the Eluvian does nothing bad, and works just like in Witch Hunt, I don't see how that will restore their history.

Well, I never said she gets all her info just from the demon. She never said all the info she got was from Audacity

I don't actually want to argue about her, so I should probably just stop talking about it.  But I do want to say one thing.  It is totally possible that Merril is right, and that she can handle herself.  But we never get to find out.  Marethari ninjas that chance.  Maybe Merril is right, maybe she is wrong.  We don't actually get to see it. 

I don't either. So I'll just choose to say I believe Merrill is right.

I might have warmed to her if you got to see some kind of result after she breaks the mirror.  For instance, you can tell her to help the people of the alienage.  If you got to see some indication that she did help them, earning the love and respect from them that her clan didn't give her, then I'd start to think there was something to her after all.  I think I might be starting to ramble so I really will stop now.  =P

I always romance her and go off on Isabella's ship together with Merrill 

[mesmerizedish]

Sabariel wrote...

Don't you mean "ishmaeltheforsaken Rivalry +50"?

[Jorrkit]

I've always wondered how those horns don't weigh at the demon's head. Look at them, they're enormous! What are they made of? Papier-mache? If so, not very intimidating.

[mesmerizedish]

I'll remember to ask Maria the next time she fulfills my desires.

[Jorrkit]

Ooooh. All of them? 

[TEWR]

Jorrkit wrote...

I've always wondered how those horns don't weigh at the demon's head. Look at them, they're enormous! What are they made of? Papier-mache? If so, not very intimidating.

I'm wondering if they can be used for sex. you know, you hold onto them. If so, then maybe Qunari horns function the same way....

[Jorrkit]

Someone needs to suggest that to Merrill. Just to make her blush. She's cute when she's flustered, after all. 

Also, LOL at people who love Merrill hijacking this thread... maybe I should go away now

Modifié par Jorrkit, 16 avril 2011 - 05:59 .