236 réponses à ce sujet

[mdugger12]

TJSolo wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...
Stop throwing these ridiculous threads up. I've said a million times you can't use raw numbers out of context to prove your point.

The context was set by Bioware themselves, who anticipated DA2 selling 4.5-5 million copies. That obviously is never going to happen. Hell, I'd be shocked if they manage to break 2 million. 

 But don't try to use any facts to back up your feelings. You'll look foolish.

Unless the facts back our position, which they do. Sorry if you don't like that DA2 isn't selling well ("well" is not a subjective term, Bioware set an objective goal and at the current rate of sales they won't hit the halfway mark), but that's just the state of reality right now. Perhaps you should go around spreading the word of how awesome DA2 is? Bioware would appreciate the free advertising, I'm sure. 

But reality has nothing to do with how good or bad either one of us feel the game is. The reality is video games just aren't selling right now. It doesn't matter what they hoped they sell or what number you'll be shocked they hit. No spring release is doing those numbers. And since DA 2 is on par with the mainstream releases that you "feel" it was striving to imitate then I guess Bioware did its job right?

There was no such conclusion about video games not selling, your NPD link concludes that the total amount of cash made from physical game sales are down because of the lack of AAA titles for the month but that conclusion could be refuted with sales figures from digital sales.

If I had only posted the NPD article you would have a valid point. I used it to set the tone. I then backed up my statement by showing the sales numbers of the top 3 AAA FPS released. And compared to historical sales numbers, they aren't what we've come to expect.

[Everwarden]

mdugger12 wrote...
I never gave my opinion on DA 2. I never said if I thought it was great or not. But It doesn't matter.  The industry isn't moving units the way it was predicted they would. So just because Bioware was wrong on a sales forecast doesn't mean that DA 2 isn't holding it's own against the 3 top FPS released this spring. I don't see how that proves that nobody likes the game.

The reason this argument fails is obvious. Imagine a movie does poorly at the box office, would you compare it to another movie of another genre doing poorly at the same time and reason that people 'just aren't buying movie tickets right now'? Well, maybe you would. I think that's a poor cop-out, and an irrelevant point even if true because no matter which way you twist and spin it, Bioware set a goal. If Bioware failed to factor in the market on top of releasing a bad game, well, shame on them. 

[naughty99]

Everwarden wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...
I never gave my opinion on DA 2. I never said if I thought it was great or not. But It doesn't matter.  The industry isn't moving units the way it was predicted they would. So just because Bioware was wrong on a sales forecast doesn't mean that DA 2 isn't holding it's own against the 3 top FPS released this spring. I don't see how that proves that nobody likes the game.

The reason this argument fails is obvious. Imagine a movie does poorly at the box office, would you compare it to another movie of another genre doing poorly at the same time and reason that people 'just aren't buying movie tickets right now'? Well, maybe you would. I think that's a poor cop-out, and an irrelevant point even if true because no matter which way you twist and spin it, Bioware set a goal. If Bioware failed to factor in the market on top of releasing a bad game, well, shame on them. 

I work in the film industry and I can confirm that with the exception of huge blockbusters, DVD sales have collapsed over the past 2 years.

DVD sales numbers that would have been considered a flop 2 or 3 years ago is now successful for us.

I would imagine game sales have been similarly affected by piracy and the recession.

[TJSolo]

mdugger12 wrote...

If I had only posted the NPD article you would have a valid point. I used it to set the tone. I then backed up my statement by showing the sales numbers of the top 3 AAA FPS released. And compared to historical sales numbers, they aren't what we've come to expect.

Perflaps the issue with sales about those 3 FPS games is that there were 3 FPS games releases within weeks of one another. Maybe most of those FPS games are just bad and the sales reflect that.

Still the NPD article does not support what you are claiming.

[snackrat]

Why do I suddenly feel as though Mike Laidlaw probably cries himself to sleep over the internet backdraft regarding his directing of Dragon Age 2....?

[mdugger12]

Everwarden wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...
I never gave my opinion on DA 2. I never said if I thought it was great or not. But It doesn't matter.  The industry isn't moving units the way it was predicted they would. So just because Bioware was wrong on a sales forecast doesn't mean that DA 2 isn't holding it's own against the 3 top FPS released this spring. I don't see how that proves that nobody likes the game.

The reason this argument fails is obvious. Imagine a movie does poorly at the box office, would you compare it to another movie of another genre doing poorly at the same time and reason that people 'just aren't buying movie tickets right now'? Well, maybe you would. I think that's a poor cop-out, and an irrelevant point even if true because no matter which way you twist and spin it, Bioware set a goal. If Bioware failed to factor in the market on top of releasing a bad game, well, shame on them. 

The goal was based on a forecast of the industry that didn't pan out. Bioware didn't come up with the forecast by themselves and they didn't release DA 2 in a vacuum. I can't believe that you're holding on so tightly to the notion that industry sales shouldn't be factored into this. You're not giving any reasons I'm wrong, you're just saying its some sort of cop out. You're basically saying I'm wrong because you want the numbers to prove you right. Pick apart my argument with facts or drop it.

[DraCZeQQ]

Volourn wrote...

"I take it that because of the over-simplified basis of an RPG that is DA2, that has you favoring it so, is also indicative to your inability to use the "quote" feature in these forums?"

I use the quote function I was tuaght in school. Were you taught about quotes in school?

Then I would suggest you return to THAT school and demand your money / time back for terrible job they did on teaching you ... because THIS is not how "quote" should look like, even on official document (you miss the part where you must specifically state WHO are you quoting and from WHERE)

so please skip the act of being "special" and start using quotes like everyone else, so your gibberish posts are at least readable

Modifié par DraCZeQQ, 16 avril 2011 - 09:11 .

[mdugger12]

TJSolo wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

If I had only posted the NPD article you would have a valid point. I used it to set the tone. I then backed up my statement by showing the sales numbers of the top 3 AAA FPS released. And compared to historical sales numbers, they aren't what we've come to expect.

Perflaps the issue with sales about those 3 FPS games is that there were 3 FPS games releases within weeks of one another. Maybe most of those FPS games are just bad and the sales reflect that.

Still the NPD article does not support what you are claiming.

The NPD article is only setting the tone of my argument. But we're going in circles on that issue.

Perhaps it is because the games are released so close to one another. Perhaps DA 2 fell into that trap as well. We don't know. But we can't come to a conclussion either way.

Lets look at a top seller from another genre

Fight Night Champion

360:  http://gamrreview.vg...night-champion/
PS3: http://gamrreview.vg...night-champion/

Take in account I'm picking TOP SELLERS/ TOP RATED games over the same period. Not picking and choosing. Think of a title and look it up yourself. The numbers aren't there.

[mdugger12]

Ok

Modifié par mdugger12, 16 avril 2011 - 09:11 .

[SoR82]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

DA2 sales are low. Listen to feedback and give the fanbase what they want (hint, it's not part of Mike Laidlaw's "awesome button" vision). That is all there is to learn from this thread. For Bioware. And yes, don't feed the trolls.

Ah well you see I try not to feed them but some of them on here are genius! Ive been in tears of laughter at.... well i wont name him i suspect most people know who I mean.

[betrazen]

mdugger12 wrote...

First lets start with information from NPD about Video game sales

http://www.digitaltr...6-pct-in-march/

They blame the declaine mainly on lack of AAA titles realesed in march, among few other things like not counting digital downloads. Point is there is no general decline trend in game sales you are trying to make to justify DA2 horrible sales.

Homefront Sales
360: http://gamrreview.vg...4846/homefront/
PS3: http://gamrreview.vg...4845/homefront/

Bulletstorm Sales

http://gamrreview.vg...09/bulletstorm/
http://gamrreview.vg...08/bulletstorm/

First few weeks of Crysis 2

http://gamrreview.vg...35001/crysis-2/

First, Crysis 2 is a sequel to PC only game that sold about 0,7 mil units and considering that its doing ok. Homefront is sporting uber 70% score on metacritics and Bulletstorm ? Please, its just another insignificant action game. DA brand is a jaggernaught compared to them.

Dragon Age II is selling par for the course. Video Games as a whole aren't selling very well compared to numbers we would normally see. And if you look at the the percentage of drop off every week, DA2 is actually doing better than would be expected.

Again, you are just making this up. According tio the articule you linked 16% drop in game sales is one month wonder, not general trend. They explained that, maybe you should read it again ?

Stop throwing these ridiculous threads up. I've said a million times you can't use raw numbers out of context to prove your point. If you just want that warm feeling of validation that others share in your hate for this game just look for one of the many threads and get your fix. But don't try to use any facts to back up your feelings. You'll look foolish.

Funny thing you are doing exactly that, spinning the numbers and facts so you can use them to make your point.

[mdugger12]

betrazen wrote...

First, Crysis 2 is a sequel to PC only game that sold about 0,7 mil units and considering that its doing ok. Homefront is sporting uber 70% score on metacritics and Bulletstorm ? Please, its just another insignificant action game. DA brand is a jaggernaught compared to them.


Again, you are just making this up. According tio the articule you linked 16% drop in game sales is one month wonder, not general trend. They explained that, maybe you should read it again ?


Funny thing you are doing exactly that, spinning the numbers and facts so you can use them to make your point.

What in the world are you talking about? The NPD article blames lack of AAA titles but by no means does it try to imply thats the only reason for the decline. But that's why I added titles that were expected to perform.
 
I don't have to spin any numbers and I don't care what you personally think about any of those games. We're talking about how games that dropped in the same period are performing. The fact is Crysis, Homefront, and Bulletstorm were expected to move units. I also threw a sports franchise out there that you seemed to conveniently leave out. I wonder why.

If these examples aren't good enough then all you have to do is find titles that dropped during the same period that prove my statement wrong. If you can't do that then I'll have to assume you have nothing to back up whatever point you're trying to make and have no reason to waste my time respondiing.

Modifié par mdugger12, 16 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[Sabriana]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I suppose your stats don't take into account the people who have returned their games because bugs made them unplayable?

It's a month after launch and there's STILL an issue on the PC that prevents the game from launching. I'm aware of several people who have since handed the game back (and probably warned their friends).

You're kidding. I've not been back in that thread because it's pointless. That's still not fixed? So that means that there are a significant number of players still left with.... what we are left with? That's just sad.

And yes, that was one of my major warning points when friends, family and acquaintances asked me about DA 2.

[DSGrant]

mdugger12 wrote...

You're not giving any reasons I'm wrong, you're just saying its some sort of cop out.

Numbers alone don't tell the story, but they do provide some compelling information when taken in context. Approximately 40% of the total sales for DA2 so far can be attributed to the success of Origins in the form of pre-orders (roughly 400k of them). I say "approximately 40%" because some of those people who pre-ordered actually thought DA2 was better than Origins. But from what I've been reading here and elsewhere, most didn't. None of the other comparable top titles are selling under the inauspicious circumstance of a sequel that didn't live up to expectations. Taking that context into consideration, it appears to me that there is a strong correlation between DA2 sales and negative player reviews. That doesn't mean it's causal, but I don't think you can objectively ignore the correlation either.

Bottom line here is you can argue the cause, or lack thereof, for the sales numbers all day long, but it's not going to change the fact that they are vastly underperforming for the expectations set by Bioware. What remains to be seen is how bad they get, and whether or not it will affect Bioware's design decisions about DA3.

[tez19]

 

Modifié par tez19, 16 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I don't think it's fair to say that the poor sales were purely market driven or product driven. Likely, it's a combination of both.

The current quarter, or even month of games has been slower than usual. What were the figures, around 10%.

Let's lump 10% onto Dragon Age 2's sales. They would still be a relative disappointment considering the goals and expectations.

Also, Crysis 2, Homefront and Bulletstorm were all disappointing as far as expectations go. Homefront in particular. Crysis 2 was probably fine as a game, but it wasn't the nerdtastic photorealism graphics that people were hoping for. No DX 11 on release, cut down textures because of consoles, etc. That has to have impacted sales. Bulletstorm, I don't know really. I guess it just doesn't have the name power of Unreal Tournament.

On that note Shogun 2 seems to have bucked the trend. PC-only, incredibly niche yet seems to have sold quite well.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 16 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[Fallstar]

Gatt9 wrote...

I don't trust VGChartz numbers at all.

But the NPD report released yesterday, and specifically commented on DA2 underperforming.

Even more interesting, total game sales are down 15% year-to-year, and down 9% from 2009's high. Two months of 2011 with significant drops. Mind you, that's with Pokemon added in, and sold at least 2 million units, which accounts for around 20% of March's revenues alone. Take Pokemon out of the picture, and it's a really dismal scene. Bodes very poorly for the rest of the year as well, I don't think there are any other juggernauts scheduled this year, 2011 is very likely to prove to be a massive slide.

Edit:

It alreayd broke a million sales, and it did it in 2 weeks. vgcharts is fantasy numbers. Plain and simple.

No it didn't.  Go reread Bioware's post,  they do not claim at all to have sold 1 million units,  they claim to have moved 1 million units.  They cannot use the word "Sold" unless they can definitvely show they did,  as the SEC would fine the heck out of them because they're publicly traded. 

So by virtue of the fact that they did not state they "Sold" 1 million units,  we can definitively confirm they did not sell 1 million units.  The only reason not to use the word is because you didn't do it,  but you want people to think you did,  so you carefully craft a statement designed to make the reader think "Sold" instead of shipped.

"don't think there are any juggernaughts released this year" ------->Modern Warfare 3? WIll probaobly outsell DA:2 entire lifetime sales in 6 hours?

[mdugger12]

DSGrant wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

You're not giving any reasons I'm wrong, you're just saying its some sort of cop out.

Numbers alone don't tell the story, but they do provide some compelling information when taken in context. Approximately 40% of the total sales for DA2 so far can be attributed to the success of Origins in the form of pre-orders (roughly 400k of them). I say "approximately 40%" because some of those people who pre-ordered actually thought DA2 was better than Origins. But from what I've been reading here and elsewhere, most didn't. None of the other comparable top titles are selling under the inauspicious circumstance of a sequel that didn't live up to expectations. Taking that context into consideration, it appears to me that there is a strong correlation between DA2 sales and negative player reviews. That doesn't mean it's causal, but I don't think you can objectively ignore the correlation either.

Bottom line here is you can argue the cause, or lack thereof, for the sales numbers all day long, but it's not going to change the fact that they are vastly underperforming for the expectations set by Bioware. What remains to be seen is how bad they get, and whether or not it will affect Bioware's design decisions about DA3.

I wouldn't discount how important pre-orders are to DA 2's overall numbers. I won't even dispute that there is a segment of fans unhappy with the how the game turned out. But we don't have to use sales numbers in a vacuum to discuss the issues we may have with the game.

The fact is we can look at sales across the industry and tell that even if Bioware made DA 2 a video game version of a love letter to it hardcore fans there was no way it was going to hit 4.5 million sales (I'm not sure where that number came from but for arguments sake we'll agree that was the goal). So no matter how disappointed someone is the game didn't live up to their expectations, pretending this is the reason Bioware didn't hit that goal isn't productive. 

Another mistake is to believe that sequels usually outperform the original. That's not the case in gaming. There are games that are the exception but you can't count on that panning out. I think that everyone takes for granted that everyone that bought DA:O would buy DA2. Do you always buy the sequel of games you own?

And finally, the market has really shown to be there to move that many units. There isn't any game, regardless of what was expected, that has dropped this spring that is living up to "expectations". That doesn't mean they all have failed, but when we're talking about sales you have to grade on a curve in regards to your market. If gaming was seeing record sales around the board and DA 2 did sell 4.5 million it still wouldn't be looked at as a success. So likewise when things are slow, you have to compare your numbers to what is actually happening.

There are too many variables. But pretending that only the numbers that support your argument are valid just isn't reasonable. I'm not saying it couldn't be selling better. I'm saying the numbers don't show any real backlash or failure.

[betrazen]

mdugger12 wrote...
What in the world are you talking about? The NPD article blames lack of AAA titles but by no means does it try to imply thats the only reason for the decline. But that's why I added titles that were expected to perform.

It clearly implies that it was a main reason however.
 

I don't have to spin any numbers and I don't care what you personally think about any of those games. We're talking about how games that dropped in the same period are performing. The fact is Crysis, Homefront, and Bulletstorm were expected to move units. I also threw a sports franchise out there that you seemed to conveniently leave out. I wonder why.

You are assuming that suppoused underperformance of that titles is a proof of your "general game sales decline" teory, and in my previous post I tried to show that you are wrong, I will try again then.

Crysis 2 - is it really performing that bad considering its a multiplatform sequel to PC only game that didint sell that well ? I wouldn't go that far. Here you got Crysis 1 sales:
gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/7182/crysis/

Homefront - from short reaserch I made its clear that this game is a failure.
www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/homefront
Metacritics score 70 on all platforms is a death sentence to any game, especialy AAA title. No wonder it sales bad (still, better than DA2)

Bulletstorm - how do you know that game is underperforming ? As I posted above its just another action game, I doubt expectation for it were too high. Yea that's just my opinion this time.

About that sport game - I honestly have no idea about that genre, or if that game was good or not so maybe you got a point with that one

I also made a point that DA franchise is probably bigger than all of above combined, for example DA:O sold over 4 mil copies, compared to first Crysis 0,74 mil , so comparing their sales isn't exactly fair, as DA2 should sell a hell lot more than any of them.

Modifié par betrazen, 16 avril 2011 - 12:15 .

[mdugger12]

betrazen wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...
What in the world are you talking about? The NPD article blames lack of AAA titles but by no means does it try to imply thats the only reason for the decline. But that's why I added titles that were expected to perform.

It clearly implies that it was a main reason however.
 

I don't have to spin any numbers and I don't care what you personally think about any of those games. We're talking about how games that dropped in the same period are performing. The fact is Crysis, Homefront, and Bulletstorm were expected to move units. I also threw a sports franchise out there that you seemed to conveniently leave out. I wonder why.

You are assuming that suppoused underperformance of that titles is a proof of your "general game sales decline" teory, and in my previous post I tried to show that you are wrong, I will try again then.

Crysis 2 - is it really performing that bad considering its a multiplatform sequel to PC only game that didint sell that well ? I wouldn't go that far. Here you got Crysis 1 sales:
gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/7182/crysis/

Homefront - from short reaserch I made its clear that this game is a failure.
www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/homefront
Metacritics score 70 on all platforms is a death sentence to any game, especialy AAA title. No wonder it sales bad (still, better than DA2)

Bulletstorm - how do you know that game is underperforming ? As I posted above its just another action game, I doubt expectation for it were too high. Yea that's just my opinion this time.

About that sport game - I honestly have no idea about that genre, or if that game was good or not so maybe you got a point with that one

I also made a point that DA franchise is probably bigger than all of above combined, for example DA:O sold over 4 mil copies, compared to first Crysis 0,74 mil , so comparing their sales isn't exactly fair, as DA2 should sell a hell lot more than any of them.

OK. Metactitic give Homefront a 70. But metacritic has never been the end all be all. In fact I've never really heard anybody use it as a reliable source before this whole DA2 issue. But I can assure you Homefront was an anticipated release.

Bullerstorm has been hyped to death and was also highly anticipated.

I wasn't commenting on the raw numbers for Crysis but it's a sequel that also was expected to outperform it original. I'm looking more at the pattern. Which is the issue that is being brought up with DA 2. The volume is addressed but the drop off in sales according to this thread shows fan backlash.

Fight Night Champions is a sequel in a huge Boxing franchise from EA and was probably the most anticipated release of all the games that sells no less than 4 million copies per release (feel free to verify) so it's a pretty big deal in it own right. It's not even doing as well as DA 2.

It seems like just because DA:O managed to sell 3.2 million it was a given that everyone that bought that game will want to buy this one.

I'm not saying DA 2 isn't living up to expectations. I'm saying that the numbers being listed out of context don't take in all the variables and can't be used to prove that particular argument. Why even try to use a tactic like that when just the fact that the OP was a fan and now not so much is valid in it's own right.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

mrcrusty wrote...

I don't think it's fair to say that the poor sales were purely market driven or product driven. Likely, it's a combination of both.

As much as I dislike many of the changes (but not all) in Dragon Age 2, I do think that rather than pure numbers, we do need to temper our expectations and judgements with context.

That said, unless the goal was to sell a third or half of the units that Origins sold, outside factors cannot account for a 4-1 Origins to DA 2 sales ratio on the 360 for week 5 by itself. This is further compounded by the fact that Origins sales held steady for an usually long time.

Which is in complete contrast to Dragon Age 2's sales, which were strong during the first two weeks and have fallen flat since.

Trepidation over the current crop of games may account for a reasonable amount of lost sales, but not to the extent that is being shown here. Not by itself.

For me, more important than the actual sales numbers is the trend of sales. There is a significant drop off after the first two weeks. But we can't simply say "lololol DA 2 failed bcoz it suxxorz in sales". Well, you probably could make that argument if you had more concrete data that confirms the general accuracy of the ones we currently have.

But comparing it in direct numbers isn't the right way to go about it only a month after release.

New Vegas sold more copes on the 360 in weeks 6-10 than in 2-5. So, there's always the possibility that Dragon Age 2 will rise like a phoenix and prove us wrong. All we can say is that currently, it's not doing well possibly due to market factors but primarily because people don't want to buy the game.

It's too early to start claiming victory or failure. Wait 6 months. Then it becomes fair game to compare numbers directly with Origins.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 16 avril 2011 - 01:04 .

[Euteras]

Volourn wrote...

I use the quote function I was tuaght in school. Were you taught about quotes in school?

I was and after lunch I was taught to cite the quoter. (person that made the quote)

[man giraffe dog2]

As a note: man giraffe dog3 is NOT mangiraffedog, he's simply trying to ruin my good name.

On-Topic: I think maybe the declining sales may be in part due to people being warned away by the controversy on the forums (fair or not) rather than whether they actually think it's a good game or not.
Anyway I doubt it'll effect DA3 besides encouraging the Devs to maybe scale back the changes DA2.

[cljqnsnyc]

I've already stated this before but I guess I'll repeat it again.......




Why is DA2 being given excuse, after excuse, after excuse, for it's sales performance?



You didn't hand in your assignment on the date it was due...for the 8th time? "The dog ate it....again"

You're late for work 4 times a week in a 5 day schedule? "Traffic is impossible!"

You forgot your spouse's, parent's, and best friend's birthdays...again? "We'll I've been so busy, it's hard to keep track of everyone."


All lousy excuses!




Call something by it's name! Spin it any way you wish, DA2 has serious problems.....and THIS is what's keeping people away. Simple. DA2 is to blame for DA2's sales performance. It's speaking for itself. Simple.

Side note

It really doesn't help matters when you have the lead designer continually trashing the original game as if this will somehow change perceptions. It also doesn't help when this same designer seemingly deliberately antagonizes fans with quotes like "Play it on hard." I guess this will somehow transform the game into something new....since we're too stupid, too old, or too terrified of the changing times to see how brilliant and innovative this game is.

If you say so Mike......

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 16 avril 2011 - 01:31 .

[Nerdage]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

I've already stated this before but I guess I'll repeat it again.......




Why is DA2 being given excuse, after excuse, after excuse, for it's sales performance?



You didn't hand in your assignment on the date it was due...for the 8th time? "The dog ate it....again"

You're late for work 4 times a week in a 5 day schedule? "Traffic is impossible!"

You forgot your spouse's, parent's, and best friend's birthdays...again? "We'll I've been so busy, it's hard to keep track of everyone."


All lousy excuses!




Call something by it's name! Spin it any way you wish, DA2 has serious problems.....and THIS is what's keeping people away. Simple. DA2 is to blame for DA2's sales performance. It's speaking for itself. Simple.

Side note

It really doesn't help matters when you have the lead designer continually trashing the original game as if this will somehow change perceptions. It also doesn't help when this same designer seemingly deliberately antagonizes fans with quotes like "Play it on hard." I guess this will somehow transform the game into something new....since we're too stupid, too old, or too terrified of the changing times to see how brilliant and innovative this game is.

If you say so Mike......

To be fair, I think Laidlaw's "trashing" DAO was at least as valid as any points you can make about DA2. He never said "It was a terrible game and we're ashamed of it." but things like comabt feeling unresponsive were completely true, if you ordered a warrior to intercept someone going for your mage they'd just swivel on the spot until the enemy stopped moving (presumably because they reached your mage and were getting to work).

Could it even be problems with Origins that put some people off DA2?

Mind = Blown!